BIAB VS no rinse sparge

[Mojavejohn]

OK, I've got a question that I hope you guys can help me out on. I want to start doing all grain brewing. I currently do extract with specialty grains. My goal at this point is to spend as little money as possible. As I was doing some research I started reading about brew in a bag. This seems like a pretty cool set up. My dilema is I only have an 8 Gal. BK. I really don't want to have to go and buy a new kettle, and I'd prefer to keep my batches at 5 Gal. although a 3 Gal. batch might be OK. I already have a couple coolers that I can convert to a MLT and HLT. My thought is that I will use a cooler for the MLT and do a no rinse sparge. This seems to me the most economical way for me to get into the all grain arena. What do you think?

 

[eluterio]

First of all congrats on taking the step up you wont regret it. Sounds to me if you have 2 coolers and your converting them into a MLT and HLT you should be good to go for full on AG. Use the bigger of the 2 as your MLT. You should be able to do with that type of set up for 5 gallons.

If you HLT isnt big enough to hold all your water get a kitchen pot and use that to warm up some extra hot water and drain into your boiling kettle.

 

[broadbill]

I collect 7 gallons pre-boil for 6 gallons post-boil to get 5 gallons final. You should be able to do 5 gallon batches with that 8 gallon pot, even with a sparge....you might want to watch for boil-overs though, but they sell stuff for that.

 

[mtnagel]

You don't have to mash with all the water in BIAB, so you could probably still get away with using your 8 gal pot and BIAB. I have a 10 gal pot, but I've been able to make every beer I've wanted with that using most full volume mashes, but I just experimented with holding so of the water back to lower the pH, so there are some things to consider, but it could still be done depending on the recipe.

 

[PRE66_6TART]

If you want to do BIAB you can do it with an 8 gallon pot. I do it all the time. Just mash with as much water as you can, and top off with the rest after you pull the grain out. You can keep the extra water in a separate container and do a dunk sparge to gain extra efficiency too.

 

[RM-MN]

I have a 7 1/2 gallon turkey fryer pot and I do all grain via BIAB in that, 5 gallon batches. If you want to do a 1.100 beer you will probably not have enough room but for the 1.050 to 1.070 it works quite well, especially if you do a small sparge so you don't run over when you add the grains. Since your goal is to spend as little money as possible, buy a pair of paint strainer bags (no choice, they come 2 per package) and have a go. If you get your grains milled for you I suspect you can only get efficiency in the 70% range but that makes fine beer too. Later on if you want to stick with it you can buy your own mill and get the efficiency up a bit more.

 

[Rockn_M]

I agree, you can do the BIAB in an 8 gallon pot. That's probably the least expensive way to go. There is a whole BIAB sub forum under the All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing forum.

I've been using paint strainer bags from Homedepot for about a year and they work great. They are cheap and hold up well. Just becareful sometimes the seem can split with the weight of the wet grains.

 

[soccerdad]

As noted above, 1050 to 1070 beers work fine in an 8 gallon kettle with a 5 gallon yield. For BIG beers you might scale a recipe to 4 G. All u need is a bag IMHO.

 

[Mojavejohn]

Thanks for all of the quick replies. I think I'm gonna try it both ways. I have one extract kit that I still have to brew, that will happen in about ten days, when I empty one of my fermenters.

Any suggestions for a first all grain batch? What would be an easy recipe? I was thinking a Hef. What do you think?

 

[smyrnaquince]

...and do a no rinse sparge

Isn't a sparge, by definition, a rinse? I am confused. What is a "no rinse sparge"?

 

[Mojavejohn]

I'm new to all grain and haven't brewed a batch yet. So take what I say with that in mind. In my research, I've read about the "No rinse sparge". A no rinse sparge is basically draining the wort, the first runnings, from the mash. That's all that there is to it. That's the way that I understand it anyway.

 

[beernut70]

Just sew a bag to fit the bigger of the two coolers and your all set. It won't be single vessel but you should be able to do a full volume no sparge batches.

 

[Mojavejohn]

Just sew a bag to fit the bigger of the two coolers and your all set. It won't be single vessel but you should be able to do a full volume no sparge batches.

So, fill the cooler with my mash water, then drop the bag in and let it steep for an hour. After that remove the bag and drain the wort to my pot??? That sounds like a real good idea.

 

[beernut70]

Pretty easy I have been thinking about making a bag to fit my old cooler mash tun for really big beers/batches. I usually just mash (BIAB) in my keggle but I can max it out with a 10 gallon batch. Here's a video on youtube.

[ame="http://youtu.be/Vyz_zT_glDM"]http://youtu.be/Vyz_zT_glDM[/ame]

 

[Chadwick]

I made my first all-grain batches using nothing more than a 22 quart stock pot and a few free plastic buckets. I was doing 5 gallon batches as well. I had to split my batches up into 2 seperate mashes and boils, but I managed to do it for the sake of saving money by doing all-grain brewing. I used the BIAB method then, and I still do now. However, I now have the luxury of a 10 gallon mash tun.

 

[Mojavejohn]

Pretty easy I have been thinking about making a bag to fit my old cooler mash tun for really big beers/batches. I usually just mash (BIAB) in my keggle but I can max it out with a 10 gallon batch. Here's a video on youtube.

http://youtu.be/Vyz_zT_glDM

I think this is the ticket. I'm gonna order one up.

 

[mtnagel]

Pretty easy I have been thinking about making a bag to fit my old cooler mash tun for really big beers/batches. I usually just mash (BIAB) in my keggle but I can max it out with a 10 gallon batch. Here's a video on youtube.

http://youtu.be/Vyz_zT_glDM

I have seen that technique before, but it's funny becasue I almost feel like you might as well do the typical AG cooler mash tun set up with false bottom. I guess you don't have to worry about stuck sparges with this method though

 

[seckert]

I have seen that technique before, but it's funny becasue I almost feel like you might as well do the typical AG cooler mash tun set up with false bottom. I guess you don't have to worry about stuck sparges with this method though

the only difference between this and typical AG is you are pouring it out of the cooler after removing the bag. you could easily put a valve on the cooler and just use your bag to set the grain bed i bet. then if you do have a stuck sparge you could move the bag around...
thoughts?

 

[beernut70]

There are many benefits. Easier cleanup, no stuck sparge, save time without a sparge, crush finer for better efficiency, can squeeze every last drop out of the grain. I would add a valve to make it easier to drain but not needed to get started.

 

[peterj]

I'm new to all grain and haven't brewed a batch yet. So take what I say with that in mind. In my research, I've read about the "No rinse sparge". A no rinse sparge is basically draining the wort, the first runnings, from the mash. That's all that there is to it. That's the way that I understand it anyway.

That's just called a "no sparge" method.

OK, I've got a question that I hope you guys can help me out on. I want to start doing all grain brewing. I currently do extract with specialty grains. My goal at this point is to spend as little money as possible. As I was doing some research I started reading about brew in a bag. This seems like a pretty cool set up. My dilema is I only have an 8 Gal. BK. I really don't want to have to go and buy a new kettle, and I'd prefer to keep my batches at 5 Gal. although a 3 Gal. batch might be OK. I already have a couple coolers that I can convert to a MLT and HLT. My thought is that I will use a cooler for the MLT and do a no rinse sparge. This seems to me the most economical way for me to get into the all grain arena. What do you think?

I think it would only be around $20 in parts to convert a cooler into a mash tun. You don't need a HLT if you batch sparge. And you also wouldn't have to do no sparge. Just mash like normal and then heat the sparge water in your kettle. Run off into a bucket or something and then pour the saprge water in. But I guess the 5 dollar or so paint strainer bags would still be cheaper than $20 to convert the cooler. And BIAB works just as good. Just depends on which way you want to go.

Here's a link to a handy mash volume calculator: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

And one to some how to instructions for converting the cooler: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/

Good luck!

 

[broadbill]

There are many benefits. Easier cleanup, no stuck sparge, save time without a sparge, crush finer for better efficiency, can squeeze every last drop out of the grain. I would add a valve to make it easier to drain but not needed to get started.

If I could offer some dissenting opinion:

Easier cleaning:--not sure I buy that a large BIAB bag with all of its little nooks and crannies to hold grain bits is easier to clean than a cooler mashtun with a 6-8" SS braid....I spend about 30 seconds hosing out mine and its done.

Stuck Sparges:--I never had one in my cooler MT, I know some people do. Not sure I'd abandon this option based on this alone.

Save time without a sparge:--You sure do; with a hit to efficiency in most cases.

Crush finer:--I'll give you this one, although I think stuck sparges are more worried about than encountered.

Able to squeeze bag:--with a cooler bag tun you can simply drain it to the same effect; no burned fingers squeezing a 150-170F bag of grain!

 

[mtnagel]

There are many benefits. Easier cleanup, no stuck sparge, save time without a sparge, crush finer for better efficiency, can squeeze every last drop out of the grain. I would add a valve to make it easier to drain but not needed to get started.

Cool thanks.

I do have a cooler that I could use. With my current BIAB setup with mashing in the pot, I lose about 3-4F over an hour mash. Sometimes I will heat it up in the middle, but it's kind of a pain. Using a cooler, I bet the temps wouldn't drop as much. But then that begs the question, is a 3-4F drop over the mash that big a deal? If it's not, then I don't need to change my process, but if it is important, then the cooler idea seems like a pretty simple process change.

 

[smyrnaquince]

Save time without a sparge:--You sure do; with a hit to efficiency in most cases.

I read this "lower efficiency" argument a lot, but it never seems to come from people with first-hand experience doing BIAB. I get 82-83% mash (not brewhouse) efficiency with BIAB. Have you done a few BIABs? What efficiencies are you getting?

 

[broadbill]

I read this "lower efficiency" argument a lot, but it never seems to come from people with first-hand experience doing BIAB. I get 82-83% mash (not brewhouse) efficiency with BIAB. Have you done a few BIABs? What efficiencies are you getting?

I haven't; my knowledge is purely academic. I could be off-base on this point, but not all of my points.

 

[RM-MN]

I read this "lower efficiency" argument a lot, but it never seems to come from people with first-hand experience doing BIAB. I get 82-83% mash (not brewhouse) efficiency with BIAB. Have you done a few BIABs? What efficiencies are you getting?

I have BIAB experience and I'll agree with Broadbill, if you do not sparge at all you will lose efficiency. In my case it was 5 to 10% difference between doing a no sparge and a small sparge. I simply cannot squeeze all the sugar out but a little water will absorb it and then I can squeeze that sugar laden water back out.

I don't have much trouble with squeezing the 150-170 degree bag. I use a pot lid for the intial squeeze with the bag of grain in a colander. Then I use cold water for the sparge. Cold water plus hot grains gives me a decent amount of sugars collected but a cooler bag when I use my hands to get that last half cup of wort out.

 

[beernut70]

I average between 83-85% efficiency without any sparge. I just stir with the heat on until I am at about 165 degrees then pull the bag. I use a $5 pair of PVC gloves from Harbor Freight to squeeze the bag and leave very little behind and no burned fingers.

Cleaning the bag is easy pull bag, dump grains in garbage or compost then rinse the bag in the sink. Don't have to scoop any grain out of an MLT.

 

[Foosier]

I have to weigh in on the ease of cleaning the bag. I just turn mine inside out on a clean garbage bag. Then I shake the bag inside out to get the extra bits of grain out. Then I let it sit in a bucket which I collect the first (hot) water from the chiller. by the time I pull it from there it is pretty much ready to go. I agree a cooler mash tun with a braid is easy to clean but a BIAB bag is not hard either.

 

[broadbill]

I have to weigh in on the ease of cleaning the bag. I just turn mine inside out on a clean garbage bag. Then I shake the bag inside out to get the extra bits of grain out. Then I let it sit in a bucket which I collect the first (hot) water from the chiller. by the time I pull it from there it is pretty much ready to go. I agree a cooler mash tun with a braid is easy to clean but a BIAB bag is not hard either.

I guess I wasn't really disagreeing with any of those advantages to BIAB, I was more questioning if they were really advantages compared to a cooler MT....i.e. amount of cleaning is the same, stuck sparges are a non-issue, could do a fine crush in a cooler, etc.

I think it detracts from the main advantage of BIAB that you can do the whole process in one kettle!....that is a huge advantage in my book, and the other stuff is really fluff compared to that....

My 0.02

 

[metric]

OK, I've got a question that I hope you guys can help me out on. I want to start doing all grain brewing. I currently do extract with specialty grains. My goal at this point is to spend as little money as possible. As I was doing some research I started reading about brew in a bag. This seems like a pretty cool set up. My dilema is I only have an 8 Gal. BK. I really don't want to have to go and buy a new kettle, and I'd prefer to keep my batches at 5 Gal. although a 3 Gal. batch might be OK. I already have a couple coolers that I can convert to a MLT and HLT. My thought is that I will use a cooler for the MLT and do a no rinse sparge. This seems to me the most economical way for me to get into the all grain arena. What do you think?

My setup is very similar, i.e. an 8gal kettle and a large cooler mash tun for doing full volume, no sparge mashes. Use the kettle to heat strike water and boil wort, and the mash tun holds heat and drains wort effectively. Since my mash tun is on wheels (same as this one), taking the spent grains out to the compost in the back yard is easy. I also like using the mash tun to collect the hot water from my immersion chiller to use for clean up, which also in turn cleans my mash tun. Simple 2 vessel system means most brew days are only around 4hrs, but still leaves me the option of doing decoction or step infusion mashing if desired.

 

[broadbill]

My setup is very similar, i.e. an 8gal kettle and a large cooler mash tun for doing full volume, no sparge mashes. Use the kettle to heat strike water and boil wort, and the mash tun holds heat and drains wort effectively. Since my mash tun is on wheels (same as this one), taking the spent grains out to the compost in the back yard is easy. I also like using the mash tun to collect the hot water from my immersion chiller to use for clean up, which also in turn cleans my mash tun. Simple 2 vessel system means most brew days are only around 4hrs, but still leaves me the option of doing decoction or step infusion mashing if desired.

This is how I used to do it as well, before I lucked into a keg and made a keggle. Larger kettle, but same process.

Quick Q: is there any reason you don't do a sparge? My preboil volume is 7 gallons with either a single or double batch sparge, and I could fit that in my 7 gallon kettle. I either run the first runnings off into a bucket, or heat my sparge water in a separate kettle (which I now have thanks to my keggle).

Just wondering, always looking to simplify process.

 

[metric]

This is how I used to do it as well, before I lucked into a keg and made a keggle. Larger kettle, but same process.

Quick Q: is there any reason you don't do a sparge? My preboil volume is 7 gallons with either a single or double batch sparge, and I could fit that in my 7 gallon kettle. I either run the first runnings off into a bucket, or heat my sparge water in a separate kettle (which I now have thanks to my keggle).

Just wondering, always looking to simplify process.

Exactly that, simplify and shorten the process.

By doing a full volume, no sparge mash, I only have to heat water once and drain once. I actually have 2 kettles, my 8gal pot and a 15gal keggle. I'll use the keggle for larger batches or higher gravity 5gal brews, but since most of my beers are OG1.040-1.050 and 5gal, my 8gal pot works just fine, although occasionally I need to add a little top up water to my boil (depending on gravity readings during the boil).

 

[smyrnaquince]

I also like using the mash tun to collect the hot water from my immersion chiller to use for clean up, which also in turn cleans my mash tun.

I never thought of that! Thanks!