Benefits of Liquid vs Dry Yeast

[MPLS_Brewing]

What are the benefits of using a liquid yeast pitch? The dry yeast packages I've used work incredibly well with no shelf-life issues.

I'd be interested in learning about the advantages and disadvantages of both yeast cultures.

 

[VikeMan]

One advantage to liquid yeast is that there are many more strains available than for dry yeast. The gap has started to close in the past few years, but it's still no contest.

 

[RCope]

I brewed a "Denny's Wry Smile Rye IPA" today. Over 150 brews in and the only beer I've brewed more than once (this is my third iteration). Denny's Favorite (Wyeast 1450) is not available in dry form. A lot of yeasts with various characteristics are limited to liquid form.

That being said, I find myself using more and more dry yeast despite having a yeast bank full of overbuilt starters. The quality and diversity of modern dry yeast is impressive. The convenience is addicting. And the cost is not that much different considering I use commercial canned wort as a quick starter. The quality of the beer stays the same...

 

[MaxStout]

Dry yeasts will get you into the ballpark for many styles, some even excel. Want a neutral yeast that lets the other ingredients do the talking? US-05 or Notty will fit the bill. But want to brew a true-to-form Kolsch? K-97 may be OK, but nothing's going to beat WY2565 or WLP029.

 

[MPLS_Brewing]

I brewed a "Denny's Wry Smile Rye IPA" today. Over 150 brews in and the only beer I've brewed more than once (this is my third iteration). Denny's Favorite (Wyeast 1450) is not available in dry form. A lot of yeasts with various characteristics are limited to liquid form.

That being said, I find myself using more and more dry yeast despite having a yeast bank full of overbuilt starters. The quality and diversity of modern dry yeast is impressive. The convenience is addicting. And the cost is not that much different considering I use commercial canned wort as a quick starter. The quality of the beer stays the same...

Dry yeasts will get you into the ballpark for many styles, some even excel. Want a neutral yeast that lets the other ingredients do the talking? US-05 or Notty will fit the bill. But want to brew a true-to-form Kolsch? K-97 may be OK, but nothing's going to beat WY2565 or WLP029.

One advantage to liquid yeast is that there are many more strains available than for dry yeast. The gap has started to close in the past few years, but it's still no contest.

Thanks for the responses! In a 5-gallon fermentation vessel, as a volume percentage, how much flavor compound can the yeast produce? It seems to me that those flavor compounds are a byproduct of the yeast-sugar reaction and are a small percentage of the overall volume produced. This might be a naive understanding of how yeast can produce flavor. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Hammy71]

There is definitely more variety of liquid yeast. Having said that, its been years since I've used my stir plates. Dry yeast is just so convenient and readily available.

 

[MaxStout]

Thanks for the responses! In a 5-gallon fermentation vessel, as a volume percentage, how much flavor compound can the yeast produce? It seems to me that those flavor compounds are a byproduct of the yeast-sugar reaction and are a small percentage of the overall volume produced. This might be a naive understanding of how yeast can produce flavor. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Those yeast-generated flavor compounds may only comprise a small volume, but they can have a huge impact on flavor. A Belgian yeast, for example, will produce characteristic esters that are radically different from those produced by a neutral yeast.

 

[VikeMan]

Thanks for the responses! In a 5-gallon fermentation vessel, as a volume percentage, how much flavor compound can the yeast produce? It seems to me that those flavor compounds are a byproduct of the yeast-sugar reaction and are a small percentage of the overall volume produced. This might be a naive understanding of how yeast can produce flavor. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Yeast produce hundreds of flavor compounds, many of which are detectable by human palates at very low parts per million, or even parts per billion in some cases. And different strains tend to produce these compounds in different amounts. For many beer styles, yeast strain selection is crucial.

 

[madscientist451]

What are the benefits of using a liquid yeast pitch?

Many of the responses are referencing available varieties, and yeah, that's a benefit, but if the same (or similar) yeast is available dry, that's way more convenient. I use both.

 

[MPLS_Brewing]

Those yeast-generated flavor compounds may only comprise a small volume, but they can have a huge impact on flavor. A Belgian yeast, for example, will produce characteristic esters that are radically different from those produced by a neutral yeas

Yeast produce hundreds of flavor compounds, many of which are detectable by human palates at very low parts per million, or even parts per billion in some cases. And different strains tend to produce these compounds in different amounts. For many beer styles, yeast strain selection is crucial.

That's incredible! Thank you for your feedback. Your responses have motivated me to run a control experiment for myself to qualitatively detect the difference. I probably would like to run a blind study on my friends to see if they could reliable taste the difference consistently.

 

[MPLS_Brewing]

Many of the responses are referencing available varieties, and yeah, that's a benefit, but if the same (or similar) yeast is available dry, that's way more convenient. I use both.

Is there a liquid-to-dry yeast conversion chart for converting recipes? If not, that would be worthwhile for someone to take on for attempting to match flavor profiles.

 

[SanPancho]

alot of brew shops will have substitution suggestions noted in their yeast listings. us05 will note that you can substitute wlp01, wyeast 1056, etc.

there are big spreadsheets floating around the interwebs if you want a more extensive list. but realistically its pretty easy to just google "best yeast substitute for xxx"

 

[dmtaylor]

Is there a liquid-to-dry yeast conversion chart for converting recipes? If not, that would be worthwhile for someone to take on for attempting to match flavor profiles.

This might not be exactly what you are looking for, but might be a place to start.

YEAST MASTER Perma-Living

 

[Cloud Surfer]

I make a lot of yeast driven beers, such as Hefeweizen’s and a lot of Belgians. I’ve tried, and I can’t make those beers with dry yeast to the same standard I can using liquid yeast.

For the beers I do that aren’t so yeast centred, such as Barley Wines, RIS, IIPA and the like, using dry yeast is an easy choice.

 

[eshea3]

1. Liquid yeast - more expensive,more varieties, shorter shelf life, shorter lag time, requires cold storage. May require a starter as it approaches its BBD.

2. Dry yeast - longer shelf life, less varieties (although that is changing), less expensive, can be stored at room temp

 

[Steveruch]

I brewed a "Denny's Wry Smile Rye IPA" today. Over 150 brews in and the only beer I've brewed more than once (this is my third iteration). Denny's Favorite (Wyeast 1450) is not available in dry form.

1450 is the only liquid yeast that I've used in over 5 years. And it was to do a Wry Smile.

 

[Velnerj]

I would say the frequency and variety of your brewing practices may dictate which is better. I brew 4-6 times a year and brew days are sometimes spur of the moment. I've only used dry yeast.

If I brewed every month or more I might use liquid yeast and reuse yeast cakes from them to lower costs. (I know you can do this with dry yeast too but there are just some styles that I've heard liquid yeast can nail down better i.e. Heffewizen)

 

[AlexKay]

I make a lot of yeast driven beers, such as Hefeweizen’s and a lot of Belgians. I’ve tried, and I can’t make those beers with dry yeast to the same standard I can using liquid yeast.

If you like WY1214, Lallemand Abbaye is very similar (I can't tell the difference) and I've been very happy with the Belgians I've made with it.

I used to like Lallemand Munich Classic for hefeweizens (and dunkelweizen and roggenbier and weizenbock), but I began to realize they were missing something. I'm back to WY3068.

 

[Spivey24]

I’ve done a few dry vs liquid yeast split batches of ale lately. My main conclusion was that it is hard to do this comparison because there are so many variables different yeasts contribute. Far from scientific, but in each case the liquid yeast batch came out better. This could be for many reasons not related to being dry or not, but it was enough for me to not do dry again. For dry yeasts, they have to optimize for yeasts for their ability to be dried. Liquid yeasts don’t need this but they need to optimize them for shelf life.

 

[AlexKay]

I’ve done a few dry vs liquid yeast split batches of ale lately. My main conclusion was that it is hard to do this comparison because there are so many variables different yeasts contribute. Far from scientific, but in each case the liquid yeast batch came out better. This could be for many reasons not related to being dry or not, but it was enough for me to not do dry again. For dry yeasts, they have to optimize for yeasts for their ability to be dried. Liquid yeasts don’t need this but they need to optimize them for shelf life.

Just curiously, did you adjust so that pitch rates were comparable?

 

[Spivey24]

Just curiously, did you adjust so that pitch rates were comparable?

I tried but age of liquid got me on one of them. Though that still turned out better just took longer. One issue I did have was the dry tended to bolt on me whereas the liquid stayed steady. This has the affect of raising the temp a little before the fridge caught up. But not anywhere near the upper limits of the yeast. But this just goes to why it’s hard to compare side by side.

I’ll put up a separate post as to not hijack this one, but in my wife’s highly trained expert opinion, all the dry ones tasted more like home brew. Lol.

My point to the OP is that there may be an overall general quality difference in the final product, but try it yourself and make your own conclusion.

 

[jcav]

Back in the day when I first started brewing I tried using dry yeast especially as I was learning. I started with extract and as I got better at it I tried using liquid yeast. I noticed my beers were noticeably better. Then I went to all grain brewing and I stuck with the liquid yeast.

I stick to buying grain from the maltster of the country of the beer style I am making, along with the hops and the liquid yeast, all from the same country as the beer style I am making. My beers are fantastic and I just always use liquid yeast. I have heard that the dry yeast that is available today has come a long way and is just as good as liquid. I have never tried the newer modern dry yeasts of today.

However, whenever I am at a craft brewery that serves mediocre beer, I always pick the brewers brain and every single time the brewer said he used dry yeast. I know that several variables all have to work together to make great beer and it might not be the dry yeast and it might be their process, recipe, etc. but my taste buds suspect it's the dry yeast. Just my opinion though and maybe someday I will try a pack of dry yeast but I would do a side by side test with a split batch of liquid yeast to test this out.

John

 

[lumpher]

Since I rarely enter contests, I usually use dry due to convenience. However, when I enter contests, I DO use liquid, as that slight taste difference can make the difference between a Blue Ribbon and a kick in the arse...

 

[Bobby_M]

There's nothing like splitting a batch between two fermenters and proving to yourself how different yeasts will affect a beer. You won't doubt it at all after a few trials. Even using the same strain with two temperatures will be different beer.

 

[Red over White]

Split a batch with one yeast and copitch the second one. Don't think you have to just do one thing, so many options for flavor.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

We use dry yeast varieties. And we enter contests. Our brewery has won back-to-back 1st Place awards in a national competition (2021 / 2022) using dry yeast. Diamond Lager & W-34/70, and Safale S-04.

You can make the same quality beer with dry yest as you can with liquid yeast. We always harvest our yeast, and use it in an upcoming brew.

 

[Onthebrew]

If a recipe calls for a US strain I use dry, if it’s an English strain and if I’ve time to faff about with a starter then liquid, although I have had good results with verdant

 

[hottpeper13]

I use BRY97 and Notty for my Chico yeast, but I make a 1-1.5 L starter anyway,mostly to save the overbuild. Now days the dry is as much as liquid was a few years ago so I ranch'em.

 

[Spivey24]

We use dry yeast varieties. And we enter contests. Our brewery has won back-to-back 1st Place awards in a national competition (2021 / 2022) using dry yeast. Diamond Lager & W-34/70, and Safale S-04.

You can make the same quality beer with dry yest as you can with liquid yeast. We always harvest our yeast, and use it in an upcoming brew.

Just curious were the wins with first generation dry yeast or later harvested generations? Do you all ever do a direct dry pitch, and if so do you notice any difference between that batch and subsequent repitch batches?

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Just curious were the wins with first generation dry yeast or later harvested generations? Do you all ever do a direct dry pitch, and if so do you notice any difference between that batch and subsequent repitch batches?

The winning entries were all later generations of yeast, perhaps the 4th or 5th generation.

Yes, there is a large difference in the yeast from the first dry pitch, to a later harvested yeast slurry pitch.

Mainly, lag time with the slurry is almost nil. The flavor does improve with later generations, to a certain degree.

 

[MaxStout]

There's nothing like splitting a batch between two fermenters and proving to yourself how different yeasts will affect a beer. You won't doubt it at all after a few trials. Even using the same strain with two temperatures will be different beer.

Several years ago I visited the taproom at White Labs. You could order flights of their test batches. I ordered 3 or 4 versions of a Hefe, all same recipe except different yeasts. The variation between the beers was remarkable.

 

[bwible]

When I started brewing almost 25 years ago dry yeast came in a little unmarked white packet tucked under carboard lids that were placed on top of cans of extract. And the first thing we did was throw them away. Dry yeast back then was notorious for producing bad and infected beers.

Dry yeast today has come a long way. But like others said, I pretty much got into the game using liquid yeast from go, and I mostly still do.

I recently tried a dry yeast called Verdant for a bitter and I wound up with an infection that carried over for a few beers. I can’t say 100% it was just the yeast but after I cleaned everything up with iodophor I brewed another bitter with Pub and had zero issues. I’m still not a fan of dry yeast.

The one exception I found is Safale 34/70. My club did a presentation on warm fermenting lagers in primary with 34/70. I did that and really liked the results. I will probably use 34/70 again but I’m not in any rush to run out and start trying all the dry yeasts.

There also must be something to liquid yeasts if several new liquid yeast companies popped up in recent years. It used to be just Wyeast and White Labs. Now we have Imperial, Omega and I’m probably forgetting somebody.

 

[lumpher]

We use dry yeast varieties. And we enter contests. Our brewery has won back-to-back 1st Place awards in a national competition (2021 / 2022) using dry yeast. Diamond Lager & W-34/70, and Safale S-04.

You can make the same quality beer with dry yest as you can with liquid yeast. We always harvest our yeast, and use it in an upcoming brew.

Maybe a little clarification is in order. This is correct, your results can be award-winning down the road after a couple harvests. I don't harvest, I use yeast 1 time. There's nothing wrong with harvesting, I just never got in the habit; too much work for me.

 

[LostHopper]

When I heard Mitch Steele (New Realm) on a podcast talk about how much they use dry yeast for their ales I haven't given it much thought except for saisons.

 

[bwible]

Maybe a little clarification is in order. This is correct, your results can be award-winning down the road after a couple harvests. I don't harvest, I use yeast 1 time. There's nothing wrong with harvesting, I just never got in the habit; too much work for me.

You really don’t have to do anything special to harvest or re-use yeast. Its really as simple as brewing your second beer when the first one is ready to transfer and then putting your second beer on top of the yeast from the first beer.

It does require beers to be brewed a week or 10 days or so apart. And take recipes into account, do similar beers. In progession you can do for example: blonde ale, APA, IPA, barleywine - 4 beers off the same yeast in order. Or I’ve done Light Scottish, Red Ale, Amber Ale, IPA. If you want to go British you can do bitter, Mild, Pale Ale, English IPA, then Barleywine. I will not re-use yeast anymore after barleywine. Its whatever you can think of. The idea is just not to have one beer carry over anything that doesn’t belong into the next beer.

 

[lumpher]

Yep, planning and scheduling. Life gets in the way (and I usually do no-chill, which would kill the existing yeast cake). I could put it in a different fermenter, then in a day or so keg the other beer, then transfer the wort onto the yeast cake, but not worth it to me. Besides, it might be months between brewing sometimes.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

As a long time liquid yeast brewer, I have been digging into dry yeast quite a bit over the past year and a half. I am really impressed with the quality and variety of dry yeasts available these days. I have won a few medals with first pitch dry yeast batches. I usually have plenty of grains and hops in stock for a brew day. It is just so much easier to stock up on a dozen packs of dry yeast, vs messing with starters or special trips to the store to get a pack of liquid yeast. (I do often harvest and reuse yeast, but that is not without cost and effort.)

WLP530 (Belgian) and WLP565 (Saison) are the only liquid yeasts that I recall using since early 2021. Lallemand is making some really nice yeasts these days (Verdant, Abbaye, Voss, Philly Sour, etc.). I have not quite figured out if there is a dry yeast for APAs and IPAs that I like better than US-05.

A decade or two ago, there were very few dry yeasts and the quality was poor. These days both dry and liquid yeast are great options.

 

[lumpher]

I'm sure there are dozens of dry yeasts I haven't even heard of, so I resort to liquid still in some cases. When I started, I had access to Nottingham, Windsor, US05, and WB06. Not saying that was all there was back then, but that's all my local LHBS had, so whenever I wanted to make sure beer was it's best, I resorted to liquid. Now that life is back under control, I need to research dry yeasts again and catch up.

 

[MPLS_Brewing]

This might not be exactly what you are looking for, but might be a place to start.

YEAST MASTER Perma-Living

This is a very nice table. Thanks!

 

[MPLS_Brewing]

There's nothing like splitting a batch between two fermenters and proving to yourself how different yeasts will affect a beer. You won't doubt it at all after a few trials. Even using the same strain with two temperatures will be different beer.

Intuitively, I would agree. I have yet to run this experiment for myself. How does temperature affect the yeast flavor profile? Is there a common trend (e.g. warmer=more flavor) or does it depend on each yeast strain?