Cede
Well-Known Member
You're making me thirsty !
Has anyone tried to add sweet orange peel ? Or would it be too much ?
Anyone brewing Brut IPA?
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Has anyone tried to add sweet orange peel ? Or would it be too much ?
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Im planning to add .5#/gallon of pureed peaches to the batch im brewing next week. Going to call it bellini.
i'm new to brewing and this thread is too long to read all of....but WTF is a Brut IPA, all i see is gluco light beer enzyme? i make light beer all the time i add gluco to every batch to cut calories (hell i make stout light beers)....got two all pale malt batches in fermenters right now! according to the starting title, i'd say...i'm not sure is that a Brut? Can i post here if i make a dark Brut like, lager? (damn, i just donated $10 to wikipedia, i should look it up shouldn't i)
Brut IPA: dry due to enzyme use (1.000 FG or lower), and perceived bitterness from late/whirlpool hop charge (ie. no bittering additions).
huh, so i'm half the way there...what if i skip adding hops to the boil, and just dry hop? i know they say things are suppose to boil quicker at high altitude but ever since i moved to 4,500ft...my boils take like 3-4 hours to reduce now...never quite sure when to add hops...
I highly recommend reading thru the entire thread - you'll still need some perceived bitterness via late/WP additions, otherwise this runs the risk of, not only being dry, but thin with no backbone.
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lol, and i recommend you check out my thread about consistently alcoholic liquid! question i have is would it be a Brut, just so i can post proudly declaring "I'm brewing a Brut Today" to this thread!
my FG's are always 1.000, but @cactusgarrett said no boiled hops also...so not an IPA per say....
just want to know for sure, that way i'll post here 'while' i'm brewing...then when i add yeast to the wort i'll post in how many gallons in 2018...
"you'll still need some perceived bitterness via late/WP additions, otherwise this runs the risk of, not only being dry, but thin with no backbone."
WP is needed for backbone and to make beer that isn't thin?
Limit dextrin, and a type of protein are responsible for body and mouthfeel, which aren't considered tastes. Without A and B limit dextrin and without a type of protein beer deteriorates during aging because it doesn't have the types of sugar and protein in it that adds backbone. As the beer ages protein drops out and hops and body go with it and since the wort lacks limit dextrin the beer thins out. Those are a few reasons why it's recommended to pound down homebrew in eight weeks or so, and less.
A and B limit dextrin are tasteless, non-fermenting types of sugar stored in amylo-pectin. Single infusion temperatures are not high enough to allow enough amylo-pectin to enter into solution before Alpha denatures and the starch is left in spent mash. The starch are small, white, particles noticeable in spent mash. Amylo-pectin is heat resistant, complex starch that makes up the tips of grain and Alpha releases A and B limit dextrin from the starch during dextrinization. Amylo-pectin is the richest starch in the kernel. Turning the starch into dust causes issues due to starch carry over. To counteract dryness and thinning, mash is boiled, dextrinization needs to happen and a protein rest and sometimes two protein rests are used at different temperatures and at different times. A five, 10 minute rest at 158 to 162F is thrown in. The rest adds a slight amount of sweet tasting sugar, quickly. It's easy to make dry beer. It's difficult to make dry beer that's not thin.
WP is needed for backbone and to make beer that isn't thin?
Limit dextrin, and a type of protein are responsible for body and mouthfeel, which aren't considered tastes. Without A and B limit dextrin and without a type of protein beer deteriorates during aging because it doesn't have the types of sugar and protein in it that adds backbone. As the beer ages protein drops out and hops and body go with it and since the wort lacks limit dextrin the beer thins out. Those are a few reasons why it's recommended to pound down homebrew in eight weeks or so, and less.
A and B limit dextrin are tasteless, non-fermenting types of sugar stored in amylo-pectin. Single infusion temperatures are not high enough to allow enough amylo-pectin to enter into solution before Alpha denatures and the starch is left in spent mash. The starch are small, white, particles noticeable in spent mash. Amylo-pectin is heat resistant, complex starch that makes up the tips of grain and Alpha releases A and B limit dextrin from the starch during dextrinization. Amylo-pectin is the richest starch in the kernel. Turning the starch into dust causes issues due to starch carry over. To counteract dryness and thinning, mash is boiled, dextrinization needs to happen and a protein rest and sometimes two protein rests are used at different temperatures and at different times. A five, 10 minute rest at 158 to 162F is thrown in. The rest adds a slight amount of sweet tasting sugar, quickly. It's easy to make dry beer. It's difficult to make dry beer that's not thin.
Both alpha and beta amylase enzymes denature faster at higher temperatures. A higher temp step in the mash would cause the alpha to denature quicker than at a lower temp, making it probable that the alpha would be gone before all the amylo-pectin can be dissolved in the mash. This high step could then result in residual starch in the wort. Seems you would be better off not gelatinizing/dissolving residual starch after the alpha is denatured (unless you add some additional amylase to take care of the dissolved starch.) What's your explanation for why a higher temp step shouldn't leave residual starch?
Frankly I don't believe your statement that "Turning the starch into dust causes issues due to starch carry over." Finer grits will gelatinize faster than larger grits, thus making the starch available for saccharification by the amylase enzymes earlier in the mash, when less denaturing has occurred. This will result in less starch being carried into the BK. Do you have a rebuttal?
What do protein rests have to do with dextriniztion? Or, did you just throw two unrelated concepts into the same sentence, thus leading to confusion?
Can you please explain the mechanism that allows a short rest at 158 - 162 to add a slight amount of sweet tasting (presumably non-fermentable) sugar to the wort? And why would anyone want to do this when trying to create a very dry beer?
Brew on
I don't believe there is any rule about no boiled hops. Some folks may do it that way, but it's not a requirement to be a BRUT.my FG's are always 1.000, but @cactusgarrett said no boiled hops also...so not an IPA per say....
just want to know for sure, that way i'll post here 'while' i'm brewing...then when i add yeast to the wort i'll post in how many gallons in 2018...
And what type of yeast are you using that gets you 1.000 FG's without adding a glucoamylase enzyme?
Brew on
my FG's are always 1.000, but @cactusgarrett said no boiled hops also...so not an IPA per say....
just want to know for sure, that way i'll post here 'while' i'm brewing...then when i add yeast to the wort i'll post in how many gallons in 2018...
Seriously, read the entire thread - I really don't want to be "that guy", but there's some good info in there, especially in the interview with Kim Sturdavant, who's considered to have invented the style:
"The drinkable, light-bodied dry brut IPA has little to no bitterness — most of the hopping is done post-boil just for added aroma."
I don't believe there is any rule about no boiled hops. Some folks may do it that way, but it's not a requirement to be a BRUT.
And what type of yeast are you using that gets you 1.000 FG's without adding a glucoamylase enzyme?
Brew on
i've been using gluco in all my brews since 2015 to cut cals, i just always thought of it as light beer though...not something fancy like 'Brut' , but i'm not trying to sell it i guess...
adding gluco is how i stay 168lbs, and still be able to down a gallon of homebrew....
I don't think this is how alcohol and calories work. Just because you ferment out the available sugars doesn't mean the calories go away.
VVbrewery
Well-Known Member
Anyone know if using these enzymes can contaminate your equipment and affect future brews? I realize it doesn't multiple like a bacterial infection but could enough remain in the nooks and crannies of a MT to cause over conversion in following batches? I'm really looking forward to brewing one of these!
actually it is, or sorta is...i can get a 6.5% beer with carbs that has ~190 cals, or if i add gluco...i can get a 8% beer with ~175...or something like that....i'm not sure on the math because it seems counter intuitive, being that carbs only have 4 cals a gram and alcohol has 7...but apparently the yeast use more energy eating carbs to make the 7 cal alcohol...which would make since since their using it for energy/oxygen after all...
punch your FG into BeerSmith or an online calories in your homebrew calc and see for yourself...
I WISH! lol, than i wouldn't have to keep buying it! and gluco is added to the fermenter at room temp, not the mash tun...
i see your newer then me, but i just got cused out in the smarty pants 'Brewing Science' forum, for being a run of the mill avg homebrewer...lol
they got all high and mighty telling me another one just landed here...
now i get this in us just mere simpleton's realm....
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VVbrewery
Well-Known Member
I saw a couple of posts about adding it to the mash so the enzyme was denatured in the boil. I think the idea was to have more control over how much conversion takes place. I don't really think it would be an issue but I thought I'd ask.
i don't think it would work in the mash at 145f-158f....it's a low temp thing i think, i tried adding it to the mash once and ended up with a not 'lite' (to quote miller) beer...or 'brut' lol, how the hell is that actually pronounced? is it brut, or brute...
doesn't it need like fancy European **** on the U if you don't use a E at the end? you know if you hold down alt and press 154 on the num pad you could spell it BRÜT...just thought i'd say that for humor!and to add to my mirthful spirit, no i didn't actually use the word poopy... lol
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VVbrewery
Well-Known Member
I makes more sense to me to add it to the fermenter anyway.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
i think you will save maybe 3-6% on calories by fermenting it out. i was wondering how many calories i was gaining when i mash really high and was surprised to find there is very little difference in calories between an FG around 1.010 and one in the 1.020s
No, you were stating things like ".2 +/- ph makes a huge difference on efficiency" and was told otherwise by people MUCH smarter than 99% of us on this forum. Similarly, you dipped into here, stated you don't feel like reading the previous pages of an immensely informative thread, then proceeded to ask about all the stuff that was already discussed; and was argumentative to boot.
No one's going to bag on someone around here for being a run-of-the-mill, average homebrewer, or carrying on a civil conversation. They will, however, get a bit "disturbed" when someone displays the characteristics you have over your past few posts.
Right, 140°F and below. The options discussed were using it in the mash below 140°F or in the fermenter.
i said that .2 ph makes a 5% difference in 'my experience' on efficiency, as far as i know this thread started out with the title "Who's brewing a BRÜT today"...(think that's the right spelling, like champagne right)...i wanted to know if me using gluco to make 'lite' beer was making a 'BRÜT'....
And what i wanted to know being that this whole BRÜT thing seems like a marketing gimmick for craft lite beer...is if i don't use bittering hops, and just dry hop can i post in this thread saying i'm brewing a BRÜT today....
Also i'm sorry if eye-2-eye contact is required for accurate interpretation, all the kids today with their social media are dehumanized....
and as an edit for clarification, with eye-2-eye contact you'ld see this
and a big lol...damn keyboard warriors these days....
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i don't know this whole "are you brewing a BRÜT today" thread has gotten off topic but, being that it's a IPA 'lite' beer....
fermenting dry doesn't make that MUCH difference on cals but it almost doubles the alcohol 6 to 8 and actually has less cals, but your right not too many less...just think trailer park rednecks thinking about looking good, wanting a IPA instead of standard 'lite' beer....
and being i got cused as a carry over about my experiences with using a ph meter and mash ph in this thread too.. lots of
, and lol's...damn(i swear all i wanted to know at the beginning of this, was "if i use gluco to ferment dry, and dry hop, instead of boil them would it be a BRÜT")
WiscoBrewer
Well-Known Member
Making a “lite beer” with feed store grain and expired hops is not going to get you any where near a Brut IPA just because you used some form of gluco. Not to bag on you about using feed store grain on the cheap and malting yourself, you do you, but it’s just not the same qrade of professionally grown and malted barley and stale hops are not going to give you the flavor/aroma profile required for a Brut IPA.
i dont' know about that, i'm drinking some store bought malted grain beer now, and i swear my cheap homemade is better...Just like what started the craft beer market to begin with.... if you think store bought is better why do you make your own beer, and YES i'm very aware because of ME, this thread has gotten off topic EXTREMELY! isn't this are brewing a BRÜT today? lol and a
for good measure....i'm getting cussed out left and right...BUT I SWEAR, all i wanted to know was if skip boiling hops use gluco, and dry hop...would it be a BRÜT....just so i could post in this thread!
, and a lol...and as far as i know budweiser malts their own grains too...
WiscoBrewer
Well-Known Member
i dont' know about that, i'm drinking some store bought malted grain beer now, and i swear my cheap homemade is better...Just like what started the craft beer market to begin with.... if you think store bought is better why do you make your own beer, and YES i'm very aware because of ME, this thread has gotten off topic EXTREMELY! isn't this are brewing a BRÜT today? lol and a
You are exactly correct, is that what you wanted hear all along? How about you just make your “Brut IPA”, post the recipe you used, glucoamylase you used and how you used it, and then post the results...that might be better
WiscoBrewer
Well-Known Member
Why do you continually, 14years, brew a beer that’s “crap”, your own words? Good thing you’re not expecting different results!
Nobody said this was a brewing science thread, but it is to share ideas and results on brewing a Brut ipa. It doesn’t generally sit well with others who’ve been contributing and trying to further others brewing experience when you come in all “Hot dog, I’ve been brewing a lite, feed store barley, self malted, stale hopped “Brut” for years and it’s trash, but I’m brewing another one today. Can I post it and prove the style is gimmicky trash?” begin to argue with anyone that has suggestions based on experience, then play the victim
Morrey
Well-Known Member
I am preparing to rack my second Brut IPA into keg tomorrow as I am crashing it now. It is .997 like my first one. I am changing around the hop bill with this version to better compare the two and find my preference.
I am using Glucoamylase (SEBAmyl-GL) which I also use in the distilling process with corn. I opted to split the dosage between the mash when the temp was safe, and as the wort headed to the fermenter after cooling from the boil.
The body is light as you'd expect, but the hops come forward out of the beer in a big way. I called this beer a "showcase" for hops. But exercise caution as 1.057 down to .997 delivers a powerful 8% punch in a sneaky way. A couple of these gave me jelly knees - so beware!
I am using Glucoamylase (SEBAmyl-GL) which I also use in the distilling process with corn. I opted to split the dosage between the mash when the temp was safe, and as the wort headed to the fermenter after cooling from the boil.
The body is light as you'd expect, but the hops come forward out of the beer in a big way. I called this beer a "showcase" for hops. But exercise caution as 1.057 down to .997 delivers a powerful 8% punch in a sneaky way. A couple of these gave me jelly knees - so beware!
i do want to stop this, even though it's fun...just so i don't leave with hard feelings and can at least still post my tally in the how many gallons in 2018 forum...a quote from someone...
“The best beer in the world is the one in my hand.”
― Charles Papazian
as far my 'crappy beer' that's how i feel......i swear he also said something about making it for 20 cents a quart too!
“The best beer in the world is the one in my hand.”
― Charles Papazian
as far my 'crappy beer' that's how i feel......i swear he also said something about making it for 20 cents a quart too!
BeastofWotan
Member
I'm doing a brut tomorrow. My LHBS didn't have any flaked maize or rice unfortunately, so I'm using flaked oats instead.
Here's my plan, what do you guys think?
8# Pils
2# Flaked Oats
Mash 146-148
Boil:
0.5 oz Centennial 5 min
WP:
1 oz Centennial
1 oz Azacca
1 oz Galaxy
Imperial Yeast A30 Corporate
Amylo 300 added at same time as yeast
I will then do two dry hop additions (one on day 3, second 3 days before kegging), each with the same hops and amounts as the WP.
BS3 calculates 21.2 IBUs, for whatever thats worth.
One question I have: Is there any consensus on best water profile? My initial instinct was to do the same as I do NEIPAs (150:75, chloride:sulfate) to add a little more roundness or body, but it seems like that might not be desired. I have pretty soft water (perfect for say, hefeweizens after correcting for mash ph), so maybe I won't add anything other than for ph treatment.
Here's my plan, what do you guys think?
8# Pils
2# Flaked Oats
Mash 146-148
Boil:
0.5 oz Centennial 5 min
WP:
1 oz Centennial
1 oz Azacca
1 oz Galaxy
Imperial Yeast A30 Corporate
Amylo 300 added at same time as yeast
I will then do two dry hop additions (one on day 3, second 3 days before kegging), each with the same hops and amounts as the WP.
BS3 calculates 21.2 IBUs, for whatever thats worth.
One question I have: Is there any consensus on best water profile? My initial instinct was to do the same as I do NEIPAs (150:75, chloride:sulfate) to add a little more roundness or body, but it seems like that might not be desired. I have pretty soft water (perfect for say, hefeweizens after correcting for mash ph), so maybe I won't add anything other than for ph treatment.
i don't have a clue about water profile i use a ph meter..
but i just want say if you wanted to use rice and they didn't have flaked at the LHBS, just get a couple 1 pound bags at the grocery and do a cereal mash, boil them till there gel'd and add them to the mash?
and as of now, if you want to cuss me out i have my own thread for it...here's the link...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/cuss-me-out-for-being-a-crappy-homebrewer-lol.654988/
and also as always, lol (wish we were face to face)...
WiscoBrewer
Well-Known Member
FYI for future attempts, you can use minute rice instead of flaked rice. I’ve done a cereal mash with wild rice before and it turned out great but not worth the effort more than once a year...in my opinion.
As far as water profile I personally went for a soft Pilsen water, but I’m sure NEIPA water would work just as well and may lead to a somewhat thicker mouth feel but the oats are definitely going to get you the thicker mouth feel.
brew703
Well-Known Member
I would use minute rice in place of oats.
I brewed a batch on 8.3 and used Pils/wheat/flaked rice. I used 10.4 oz of hops (6oz was DH) and I don't find it was enough. Also my IBU's were 40 with a .45 oz Warrior FWH addition and there literally no bitterness.
As for as the enzyme I added 2ML during the mash once the temps hit 145, which was about the 30 min mark. I then added 3ML enzyme after the boil during cool down when temps hit 125. Let it sit for 30 min. FG was .996.
Make sure to add yeast nutrient with 10 min left in the boil. My mash ph was 5.4 at the 20 min mark, that's with adding 2.5 ml lactic.
As for water profile, here's what I did. I had a range. My target is below. Actual was 83 Ca, 94 SO4, 87 chloride
80-85 calcium
95-100 chloride
90-95 sulfate
Next time I brew this I will increase DH and probably increase IBU to around 45-50.
For a first attempt, it turned out really well. 7.3% ABV drinks easy but it will sneak up on you. Couple pints and you'll probably feel it.
BeastofWotan
Member
Good to know about the minute rice, thanks. I'd go and get some for tomorrow and save the flaked oats for another batch, but alas they are mixed in the bag with the pils malt. Looking forward to having this done!
BeastofWotan
Member
Hmm, so maybe I'll up my DH to 8 oz total. Thanks!
WiscoBrewer
Well-Known Member
I had a total of 25 IBU’s, 5 @ 5min, 20IBU in WP, and 5oz of DH total. It’s pretty good and several, including a local brewer, have guessed the IBU’s at 50-60 and mentioned the aroma.
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