Anyone brewing Brut IPA?

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radwizard said:
Imperial Yeast just released A30 "Corporate". Apparently it is a strain for Brut IPA. I haven't tried it but thought I would pass it along as I have been following this thread. It looks like a seasonal that was released today.
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is that a similar strain the the wyeat Pacman strain or the white labs pacific ale yeast?
 
It’s Elysian’s yeast... hence the “corporate” moniker. I don’t believe it’s been available to homebrewers before. Imperial already sells Pacman which is A18 Joystick. Listened to a podcast with the guys from Cloudburst in Seattle. They came from Elysian and use their yeast. They said it was banked at Imperial and called corporate but was only available to professionals at that time.

I believe Pacific Ale yeast and Wyeast 1332 are the same strain. It’s from Hale’s brewery. I’ve used it three or four times, it has an odd fruity character that I’ve never really experienced before. At least how I used it. It has diffrent properties than Corporate does.

Not sure if Corporate would be any better or worse than Chico, San Diego Super, Pacman, but maybe.
 
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couchsending said:
It’s Elysian’s yeast... hence the “corporate” moniker. I don’t believe it’s been available to homebrewers before. Imperial already sells Pacman which is A18 Joystick. Listened to a podcast with the guys from Cloudburst in Seattle. They came from Elysian and use their yeast. They said it was banked at Imperial and called corporate but was only available to professionals at that time.

I believe Pacific Ale yeast and Wyeast 1332 are the same strain. It’s from Hale’s brewery. I’ve used it three or four times, it has an odd fruity character that I’ve never really experienced before. At least how I used it. It has diffrent properties than Corporate does.

Not sure if Corporate would be any better or worse than Chico, San Diego Super, Pacman, but maybe.
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ah, ok. i was wondering why such an odd name for it. that makes sense. thanks for the info. i think i'll give us05 a try for my first round.
 
What are your thoughts about water profile?, I’ve been thinking if Czech Pilsner water profile could work for this style.
 
Mash pH: I would imagine whatever works for a light/pale grainbill would work.
Mash/Overall salts: I would expect a typical IPA profile, with a Cl:SO4 ratio favoring bitter perception would be called for.
 
I may try this, I think it would be nice to have on tap as a change from NEIPA's. Especially on the hot days.
 
I have 3lbs of Ekuanot coming I think I'm going to brew one of these this weekend, using a pound of that and one of Mosaic. Using this as a grain bill.

20 lbs Pilsner (2 row) (Gambrinus) (1.6 SRM) Grain 1 80.0 %
3 lbs Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 2 12.0 %
1 lbs Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.0 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM)

And voss kviek yeast and maybe hornindal kviek also, as a split 10 gallon batch.
 
cactusgarrett said:
Are you using enzyme? If so, unless you're using it purely to jack up the ABV, you could ditch the corn sugar. I mashed mine low 140s and have no adjuncts. The enzyme brought it down to 0.997 in a week.
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Which enzyme did you use, and did you use it in the mash or fermenter?

Brew on :mug:
 
cactusgarrett said:
Are you using enzyme? If so, unless you're using it purely to jack up the ABV, you could ditch the corn sugar. I mashed mine low 140s and have no adjuncts. The enzyme brought it down to 0.997 in a week.
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Yeah i was planning on using amylase enzyme. i was just planing on using it to help dry it out more, so maybe i will ditch it. I was planning on mashing at 148.
 
I used amyloglucosidase. I've read it goes beyond what the typical alpha amylase from LHBSs sell, in that it cleaves the 1-6 glucose (?) bond as well as the 1-4 bond and purportedly works more efficiently. I wouldn't be surprised if the qualitative difference between the two is nil.

Amylo works up through 140°F, and consensus is that use in a typical mash (up to 90min) isn't enough time for it to work fully, so it's suggested to use as primary fermentation is dying down and let go for a few days. For insurance, I myself, used it in both the mash (coupled with a low beta rest ~140°F), and in the fermenter.
 
cactusgarrett said:
I used amyloglucosidase. I've read it goes beyond what the typical alpha amylase from LHBSs sell, in that it cleaves the 1-6 glucose (?) bond as well as the 1-4 bond and purportedly works more efficiently. I wouldn't be surprised if the qualitative difference between the two is nil.

Amylo works up through 140°F, and consensus is that use in a typical mash (up to 90min) isn't enough time for it to work fully, so it's suggested to use as primary fermentation is dying down and let go for a few days. For insurance, I myself, used it in both the mash (coupled with a low beta rest ~140°F), and in the fermenter.
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This is similar to what I did only I mashed @ 147-148F for 90 min in my eBIAB rig. I removed the grain and let it cool below 140 and added the enzymes and rested for an hour before bringing it to a boil. Fermentation ended at about 1.005, so I ended up adding more enzymes to the fermenter to bring it down to a FG of .996. The beer turned out fantastic, and has been enjoyed by all who have tasted it. On my next batch I won't bother to add any amyloglucosidase to the mash, just brew as normal and add after primary fermentation. I think it's a waste of time to add to the mash as it made little difference and cost me at least an hour and a half. I will also refrain from using any boil hops (I didn't use much on the first one), only WP and dry hops. After primary fermentation is complete, I will harvest yeast and add the enzymes and first dry hops. It doesn't take much amyloglucosidase, I only used 4 grams in the fermenter (I used 24g in the mash). After fermentation ends again, I will add a second dry hop charge to help layer the hop character. The higher carbonation levels this style calls for can be a challenge. I got a flow control tap to try to dial back the flow that higher pressure brings but it just wanted to pour foam. Lengthening the tap hose to 15ft instead of my normal 10ft helped, but probably could have gone 20. Can't wait to try this one again!
 
RocketBrewer said:
This is similar to what I did only I mashed @ 147-148F for 90 min in my eBIAB rig. I removed the grain and let it cool below 140 and added the enzymes and rested for an hour before bringing it to a boil. Fermentation ended at about 1.005, so I ended up adding more enzymes to the fermenter to bring it down to a FG of .996. The beer turned out fantastic, and has been enjoyed by all who have tasted it. On my next batch I won't bother to add any amyloglucosidase to the mash, just brew as normal and add after primary fermentation. I think it's a waste of time to add to the mash as it made little difference and cost me at least an hour and a half. I will also refrain from using any boil hops (I didn't use much on the first one), only WP and dry hops. After primary fermentation is complete, I will harvest yeast and add the enzymes and first dry hops. It doesn't take much amyloglucosidase, I only used 4 grams in the fermenter (I used 24g in the mash). After fermentation ends again, I will add a second dry hop charge to help layer the hop character. The higher carbonation levels this style calls for can be a challenge. I got a flow control tap to try to dial back the flow that higher pressure brings but it just wanted to pour foam. Lengthening the tap hose to 15ft instead of my normal 10ft helped, but probably could have gone 20. Can't wait to try this one again!
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Which yeast did you go with for this one and what types/quantities of hops? Thinking of trying WLP095 in this one, since that seems to give me good results in any IPA that has fruity hop character with decent attenuation. Probably will try citra along with a hop with some wine-like characteristics.
 
Great call on the longer tap line at the higher pressure! Definitely will be doing that, since i'm even now struggling pouring some higher carbed brews, let alone this one.

I stepped at 140F and 156F, hoping to cover all my bases. Next I'll be skipping the mash addition of enzyme as well. I did a 4g Magnum addition at 60min boil just for wort stability, but i could likely omit that as well. 2oz Hallertau Blanc hopstand, for that wine-like character, and 4oz dryhop (50/50 Amarillo/Simcoe) have made this an amazing brew already. I used WLP 007 due to it's high flocc and dryness, which is absolute key for this style.
 
So i picked up grains and amylase enzyme, I'm skipping the corn sugar. Now I just need time to brew it.
 
cheesebach said:
Which yeast did you go with for this one and what types/quantities of hops? Thinking of trying WLP095 in this one, since that seems to give me good results in any IPA that has fruity hop character with decent attenuation. Probably will try citra along with a hop with some wine-like characteristics.
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I used imperial Flagship (chico). The general consensus seems to be to use any clean fermenting decent attenuation yeast that won't compete with your hop flavors/aromas. If you use the enzymes in the fermenter, I suspect any strain will attenuate well beyond what it would normally. For hops, the suggestion seems to be towards the citrus or fruity varieties rather than piney. I used 1/2oz Centennial for 60min boil (I will eliminate any boil additions in my next brut) l whirlpooled for 20 min with 1oz Amarillo 1 oz mosaic 1/2 oz citra cryo's and 1/2 oz vic secret. I added 2 oz Amarillo and 1 oz. Citra with the enzymes after primary fermentation ended at 1.004. Unfortunately, I don't think I got much from that addition as I used a dry-hopping screen container and half floated to the top and expanded and compacted and half did the same at the bottom. I pulled them at day 4 and added 1 oz galaxy and 1 oz. Vic secret loose in the fermenter, giving them another 4 days before crashing and kegging. I love the beer, but as I've said, next time I won't bother with enzymes in the mash or any hops in the boil. When you get down to .996, you don't need a lot of bittering.
 
Just got a few packs of this glucoamylase in the mail. It was reasonably priced, so I'm going to give it a try. Should break down the 1,4- and 1,6- linkages in starch:

uc
 
stickyfinger said:
Just got a few packs of this glucoamylase in the mail. It was reasonably priced, so I'm going to give it a try. Should break down the 1,4- and 1,6- linkages in starch:

uc
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I see this glucoamalyse on Amazon. Would you dissolve the sachet in the wort as you were cooling down from the boil and the IC had the wort down to 140F? How long do you let the wort stay at 131-140F before bringing on down to yeast pitch temps?

My mash ph (target) is typically around 5.3 when I mash out. Should I add some lactic acid to the wort (once mashed is finished) to get the ph under 5 for the enzyme?

Is anyone drinking their Brut IPA homebrews yet? I was worried about the 1.000 ish FG being so dry the mouthfeel may be too thin?
 
See my previous posts (#56 & #60). Technically, you could add any time after you cool the wort below 140, but if you want to harvest your yeast to use in any beer other than a brut you will want to wait til after harvesting to add the enzymes, otherwise that beer will be "Brutalized" as well. The enzymes are only denatured by heat (140 deg or hotter for 10 min I was told) so I was a little concerned about them surviving and "infecting" beers that use the same equipment (fermenters, kegs, lines, etc), So i heated enough water to 160 deg+ to fill my fermenter and other equipment with for about 15 min. I tend to overkill, so not sure if this is necessary, it will be interesting to hear if anyone has an issue with this. Yes, I'm thoroughly enjoying the beer. It will likely find a pretty regular rotation in my keezer. In addition to being quite refreshing, it has the added benefit of lower calories than a typical IPA! Looking forward to hearing others results with this style.
 
I’ve messed around with the Ag300 enzyme for a while now. Always adding it to the fermenter. I brew in SS Brewtech Conicals. I’ve never once encountered any overattenuation in any beers following the ones I used enzymes in. I wouldn’t worry about it to much if your cleaning/sanitation is good.

Brewed one on Thursday and going about it a little differently. I used a white wine strain that I’ve used before in hoppy beers. It produces some wine like esters in its own and does some really interesting things to hops. Used some Nugget/bravo/Nelson in WP below 175 and will be dry hopping with a bunch of Nelson.

Used the aG300 in the fermenter. This yeast is slow to start but then works incredibly fast. It’ll probably be down to terminal in 3 total days or so. First gravity/ph sample tasted really interesting, a long way to go so we’ll see how it turns out.
 
I don’t think there’s much reason to worry about contaminating or “brutalizing” your next batch. Even if you were to just dump out the remaining contents of your Brut batch and fill the fermenter up with your next one without even attempting to clean it, the enzyme concentration should be reduced by at least a factor of 1000. With some basic cleaning and rinsing, it should be far less than that. The enzyme can’t reproduce itself like a foreign bacteria or yeast could, so the tiny amount carried over would take a long time to do anything noticeable to the beer.

Disclaimer: this is all just theory, as I have yet to try it myself :) I did get my Ultra-Ferm in the mail this week though, so Brut is next on my brew list. I don’t plan on doing anything above and beyond my regular cleaning routine.
 
Morrey said:
I see this glucoamalyse on Amazon. Would you dissolve the sachet in the wort as you were cooling down from the boil and the IC had the wort down to 140F? How long do you let the wort stay at 131-140F before bringing on down to yeast pitch temps?

My mash ph (target) is typically around 5.3 when I mash out. Should I add some lactic acid to the wort (once mashed is finished) to get the ph under 5 for the enzyme?

Is anyone drinking their Brut IPA homebrews yet? I was worried about the 1.000 ish FG being so dry the mouthfeel may be too thin?
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I am doing a brew with a few friends for this, so I think I am going to add a full 10g packet to the brew kettle after the boil and after chilling down to like 130-135F. I'll hold the kettle at 130-135F for a hopstand and let the enzymes dissolve and work for maybe 30 mins. I hope they persist into the fermenter for everyone taking wort. If mine doesn't get down as low as I want after that, I'll just dump in another 10g pack to the fermenter. People seem to be using these enzymes effectively without adjusting pH from what I have read. It might not work as fast or be as stable, but it seems to be ok. I'm going to try to hit closer to 5.35-5.45 (at room temp) for my preboil pH so that the postboil pH is closer to 5 (at room temp).
 
stickyfinger said:
I'll hold the kettle at 130-135F for a hopstand and let the enzymes dissolve and work for maybe 30 mins.
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Thank you for this information as I feel I'll try this too.

I have some SEBAmyl-GL which is a liquid glucoamylase used in the distilling process. I didn't realize this was basically the same thing as the powdered enzyme I (we) found on Amazon so I plan to use what I have onhand.

Information on SEBAmyl-GL says it works best at temps between 86F and 140F. Like you posted, I think I'll drop the wort temps down to 135F and let the whirlpool circulate for 30 minutes or so until I see the temps getting lower. My biggest question at this point is exactly how long does it take the enzyme to work? I don't want to let the wort hang out too long since bugs may be interested in this wort at this low temperature.

Of course my fermentation temp will be well below the operating range of the enzyme if I am at 65F with an ale yeast. Another question is will the enzyme still be a bit active at 65F or is that temp simply too low for the enzyme to have any remaining benefit?

New brew ventures always start with lots of questions.
 
I used 10g during a mash rest at 138°F, myself, but i think the bulk of the work came when i added 8g in the fermenter as initial fermentation still had a couple days to go - around 68°F. Been drinking mine for a couple weeks now - you wouldn't expect this to have the enzyme: the hop backbone prevents the dryness from appearing thin.
 
cactusgarrett said:
I used 10g during a mash rest at 138°F, myself, but i think the bulk of the work came when i added 8g in the fermenter as initial fermentation still had a couple days to go - around 68°F. Been drinking mine for a couple weeks now - you wouldn't expect this to have the enzyme: the hop backbone prevents the dryness from appearing thin.
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In that case, I may add a dose of glucoamalyse at the 135F point while cooling, then add a bit more in the FV after high krausen has dropped to promote additional attenuation.

I like your thoughts that a hop backbone helps a beer seem fuller and more rounded. I made an 11G batch of a White Ale (similar to Allagash White) which came out thin. In one of the two kegs I dry hopped with a nice dose of Nelson Sauvin which seemed to give the beer a richer and fuller mouth feel. I am with you 100%, so I'm looking forward to giving the Brut a try.
 
Morrey said:
In that case, I may add a dose of glucoamalyse at the 135F point while cooling, then add a bit more in the FV after high krausen has dropped to promote additional attenuation.

I like your thoughts that a hop backbone helps a beer seem fuller and more rounded. I made an 11G batch of a White Ale (similar to Allagash White) which came out thin. In one of the two kegs I dry hopped with a nice dose of Nelson Sauvin which seemed to give the beer a richer and fuller mouth feel. I am with you 100%, so I'm looking forward to giving the Brut a try.
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Most of my experience is the exact opposite with normal FG beers. More dry hops means thinner mouthfeel. I guess that maybe flips when you ferment everything out. Dry hopping could actually result in some sugars being released into the wort, but they would normally be metabolized by the yeast I would think.
 
Yeah, and I think a lot of our evaluation could be perception. It's possible the Brix level is the same but the additional aromas and taste profiles trick our brain into thinking there is more to it than there is.
 
couchsending said:
It’s Elysian’s yeast... hence the “corporate” moniker. I don’t believe it’s been available to homebrewers before. Imperial already sells Pacman which is A18 Joystick. Listened to a podcast with the guys from Cloudburst in Seattle. They came from Elysian and use their yeast. They said it was banked at Imperial and called corporate but was only available to professionals at that time.

I believe Pacific Ale yeast and Wyeast 1332 are the same strain. It’s from Hale’s brewery. I’ve used it three or four times, it has an odd fruity character that I’ve never really experienced before. At least how I used it. It has diffrent properties than Corporate does.

Not sure if Corporate would be any better or worse than Chico, San Diego Super, Pacman, but maybe.
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It is supposedly a version of BRY-96 that Cantwell got his hands on awhile back...I've brewed two beers with it recently, the second is in primary but I've tried it a couple times so far. It's chico that emphasizes hops. I haven't used plain chico in awhile, but my personal opinion is that it does a better job showcasing hop aromas than chico does.
 
cactusgarrett said:
Hallertau Blanc for whirlpool, then Amarillo and Simcoe dry hop. Great profile as a result of all together.
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​


Thank you! I plan to brew this beer over the up coming weekend. I see a recipe from Lance Shaner's team at Omega Labs...and now your input, so I'm formulating a final game plan as I'll be close to the LHBS store tomorrow for a hop purchase.

Omega had a small hop addition at 15 minutes, but it seems your recipe skipped that addition and went into the WP before you began adding hops. I upgraded my BeerSmith software, and now find it better to determine hop utilization/IBU's since we can plug in temps during the WP.

Also, I plan to add 3ml of glucoamylase when the temps drop down to 135F...stop the IC and keep the WP pump running for 30 minutes...then resume chilling down to yeast pitch temps. After I see high krausen drop in the FV, I will add another 2 ml of SEBAmyl-GL. Hopefully by then with US-05 which is a decent attenuator anyway, I may be able to get down close to 1.002 as a goal.

Wish me luck!
 
I registered to post this. I had my first Brut IPA last night at a local brewery that likes to experiment. I'm fascinated by the style due to background biochemistry so I've decided to try my hand at it. I've taken several recipes and picked through interviews with West Coast brewers. What I came up with is below. The goal is to have a clean beer (hence US-05) that highlights hop aroma with low bitterness.
 

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Madtown Lupe said:
I registered to post this. I had my first Brut IPA last night at a local brewery that likes to experiment. I'm fascinated by the style due to background biochemistry so I've decided to try my hand at it. I've taken several recipes and picked through interviews with West Coast brewers. What I came up with is below. The goal is to have a clean beer (hence US-05) that highlights hop aroma with low bitterness.
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Welcome! I hope you'll continue to be an active participant and join in often! Good luck with your Brut as I'm planning my first one too!
 
Madtown Lupe said:
I registered to post this. I had my first Brut IPA last night at a local brewery that likes to experiment. I'm fascinated by the style due to background biochemistry so I've decided to try my hand at it. I've taken several recipes and picked through interviews with West Coast brewers. What I came up with is below. The goal is to have a clean beer (hence US-05) that highlights hop aroma with low bitterness.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good simple recipe. No 60 min hops is so foreign to me, but I'm going to try one of these in the next few brews. A pro brewer friend just gave me a 50 lb bag of base malt. I may do a smash Brut IPA with this malt and Citra or one of the other NW hops. Feedback would be appreciated. :mug: :D
 
cmac62 said:
Sounds like a good simple recipe. No 60 min hops is so foreign to me, but I'm going to try one of these in the next few brews. A pro brewer friend just gave me a 50 lb bag of base malt. I may do a smash Brut IPA with this malt and Citra or one of the other NW hops. Feedback would be appreciated. :mug: :D
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Brew day is Sunday. I'll definitely pop back in when I have some notes. I'm sure there will be some. There really isn't a solid recipe out there right now that people are sharing. I've "frankensteined" this one together from multiple interviews, articles, and my own experience with biochemistry and industrial winemaking.
 

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