Any way to pull back the maltiness?

[ignatiusvienna]

Hey folks,

So I've made this beer several times extract and I have loved it. This was my first attempt with it all-grain.

Following the secondary, it's been in the keg for ten days. I just pulled from the tap, and I really like it...but I find it too malty.

I'm trying to figure out what happened, I think this is the first time I used loose leaf hops, perhaps I didn't use enough this time.


8 lbs Pale Malt
1 lbs Cara-Plus
1 lbs Caramunich I malt
.5 lbs Munich Malt
1.5 lb honey
.5 oz Amarilo hops
.5 oz centinnel hop
.5 Chinook hop

Steep grains. Add extract and boil. Add Centiennial hops at 30 mins, Chinook at 45 min, honey at 50 and Amarilo hops at 55.

Pre Boil- 1.052. OG: 1.052 (much higher than 1.052) FG:

Primary Fermentation: 7 days. Secondary: 10 days.


I would like to pull some of it back so it fits with my extract version. Is there a way for me to modify this in the keg? Dry-hop or add hop tea?

Appreciate any and all thoughts!

 

[pdxal]

We could use some more detail.
8lbs pale malt extract?
What temp did you steep the grains at? 2lbs of crystal malts and steeped munich that didn't convert would be a lot of sweetness/maltiness.
What is/was the FG?
What were the alpha acid percentages on the hops? When did you add the Amarillo? From your post, do you mean that you boiled for 55 minutes, then added them for the last 5 minutes of a 60 minute boil? If you added the Centennial at 30 minutes, etc. as you mentioned you have very little bittering and should be boiling at least some for 60 minutes to get a greater degree of bittering.
Help us help you with some more information please.

 

[FatDragon]

You wrote your instructions as if you were doing an extract batch, while you said this is your first time doing this recipe all-grain, so I'm going to assume you mashed rather than steeping the grains, and didn't add any extract. Hop time notations are usually listed as time in the boil, which is temporally confusing but makes sense in terms of gauging the hops contribution without needing to specify the length of the boil.

So in other words, you presumably mashed your grains, then added Centennial at 30 min., Chinook at 15, honey at 10, and Amarillo at 5.

Did you get an FG? If this is your first all-grain batch and you messed up the mash, you might not have gotten many fermentable sugars, even though you got a lot of sugar into your wort. If that's the case, blending with a very dry batch could give you some balance, or refermentation with some amylase enzyme or a dose of simple sugar.

And as the first responder said, 2 pounds of caramel malts plus half a pound of Munich is going to give you some maltiness. Mashed properly and attenuated well, the honey should balance it out pretty well, but with the light hop schedule, you're definitely going to end up with a maltier, rather than hoppier beer.

 

[Calichusetts]

Sub out your munich (including the cara) for more pale malt or even pilsner.

 

[ignatiusvienna]

Sorry, actually copy and pasted from my notes, which include the extract directions.


No extract utilized. 8 pounds of american pale malt.

All hop additions are at the time of the boil not the length in the boil. I understand that that is confusing.

The alpha levels for the hops appeared to be within the standard range for the style of hops as listed on the packaging.

I mashed at 158 for 80 minutes

FG: 1.003

Improving recipe would help future batches and I welcome any feedback, but also looking for ways to fix this batch.

 

[CB_in_Tokyo]

Mashing at 158 will lead to less fermentable sugars and a sweeter maltier beer than if you mashed at 150F or so. Next time mashing lower might be all the tweak you need.

Why did you choose that temperature?

 

[ignatiusvienna]

Just following a recipe I had in a book. I'll drop it next time.

Any thoughts on this particular batch in the keg?

 

[Yooper]

Just following a recipe I had in a book. I'll drop it next time.

Any thoughts on this particular batch in the keg?

It looks like the hops were only boiled 30 minutes? and then 15 minutes? and then 5 minutes? (I can't quite figure the way it's written). If so, the beer is underbittered. Adding the hops (or more of them) at the beginning of the boil would balance the malt of the recipe.

Beer recipes are all about balance, and a good way to check out the balance is through some brewing software. In general, the IBUs (bittering) from the hops need to balance the sweetness from the malt. Some free software is Brewer's Friend, and I think Beersmith has a free trial version.

 

[Skiffy]

Whoa, FG 1.003? Something is not right. 1.003 doesn't make sense or match the maltiness you describe. Maybe 1.03? That would be a very sweet beer

 

[ignatiusvienna]

it's 1.003 prior to kegging.

 

[ignatiusvienna]

I use Beersmith

 

[m00ps]

There is no way you have a 1.003 FG if you mashed at 158. Either your thermometer or hydrometer isn't calibrated right, Or possibly your eyeballs...have you checked them before?

But mashing at a much lower temperature (148-154 for most beers) will help get a more crisp body and not so much chewy malty character

 

[ignatiusvienna]

I regularly use Beersmith.

proper hop times:
.5 oz Amarilo hops (5 min)
.5 oz centinnel hop (30 min)
.5 Chinook hop (15 min)



Any advice on how to improve this particular batch?

 

[atom]

what yeast did you use and temp fermented at?

something doesn't make sense... 1.003 is not malty.

 

[ignatiusvienna]

68 degrees

 

[stpug]

I regularly use Beersmith.

proper hop times:
.5 oz Amarilo hops (5 min)
.5 oz centinnel hop (30 min)
.5 Chinook hop (15 min)

Any advice on how to improve this particular batch?

Yes, make a hop tea to increase your bittering. I suspect that it's not too "malty" but rather too "sweet" - malty and sweet are different. Your recipe does not appear to impart too much "maltiness" with the scant addition of munich malt and mod-heavy addition of caramunich; those amounts should bring forth some malty notes but certainly not create a beer that's too "malty".

Your bittering on the other hand is much to reserved, IMO, and probably what's leaving a beer that tastes too sweet. Without enough bittering to balance the sweetness from the sugars, even a 1.000 beer can be overly sweet.

Also, your FG is suspect because those are saison final gravities, and it appears you were brewing more of a big pale ale or the like. I guess using a chico strain coupled with the large honey addition could leave you with a well attenuated beer (1.007-1.009 maybe), even with the high mash temp, the fact that you're at 1.003 is hard to imagine (but not impossible).

 

[ignatiusvienna]

Yes, make a hop tea to increase your bittering. I suspect that it's not too "malty" but rather too "sweet" - malty and sweet are different. Your recipe does not appear to impart too much "maltiness" with the scant addition of munich malt and mod-heavy addition of caramunich; those amounts should bring forth some malty notes but certainly not create a beer that's too "malty".

Your bittering on the other hand is much to reserved, IMO, and probably what's leaving a beer that tastes too sweet. Without enough bittering to balance the sweetness from the sugars, even a 1.000 beer can be overly sweet.

Also, your FG is suspect because those are saison final gravities, and it appears you were brewing more of a big pale ale or the like. I guess using a chico strain coupled with the large honey addition could leave you with a well attenuated beer (1.007-1.009 maybe), even with the high mash temp, the fact that you're at 1.003 is hard to imagine (but not impossible).

Stpug, thank you!

Any advice on the hop tea? How much I should add and type? I've never done one, just read about them briefly..

Which Chico strain would you use and would you modify the mash temp/ future hops

 

[Skiffy]

You seem to be ignoring that your input doesn't match your output which doesn't match the complaint of the beer being too malty/sweet. People can critique the recipe blindly (certainly the hop schedule seems off, but nobody knows what style you are going for) but what you produced is not what the recipe you provided should produce.

 

[stpug]

Stpug, thank you!

Any advice on the hop tea? How much I should add and type? I've never done one, just read about them briefly..

Which Chico strain would you use and would you modify the mash temp/ future hops

I am no authority on hop teas, having never needed/used one, but a simple boil of 1 ounce of centennial or chinook (i.e. high alpha hop) in a quart of water for 15-30 minutes should suffice. I would aim to reduce the liquid volume by half to leave you with about 2 cups of hop tea. Keeping sanitation in mind, filter the hops as best you can, and chill as best you can (60-70F is probably fine). Once you have a sanitary, filtered, chilled hop tea you can open your keg and pour in about half. Then, using a sanitary stirring device (racking cane even), gently swirl the beer in the keg to mix in the hop tea. Pull a small sample with a sanitized shot glass or something, and taste. If it's balanced where you expected then seal up the keg, purge with co2, and serve like normal. If it still needs more bittering then add more of your hop tea, swirl with cane, and take another shot glass sample. Find the balance you're wanting. I doubt you'd need more than that initial hop tea amount but if you do then you can certainly boil up more and repeat the process until you find the balance you're expecting.

As for "chico" strain, any of them would suffice (US05, WLP001, WY1056, etc). It's just known for excellent attenuations (80%) even with high mash temperatures (155+). It's up to you as to whether or not this strain of yeast is suited for your beer, but I suspect it would be given the grain/hop bills.

As for mash temps, generally speaking, unless you're looking specifically for a high final gravity and increased body in your beer, mash temps between 150-155F are good to go with, but there's nothing wrong with 158F in the right beer (generally lower gravity beers with medium-high bodies).

As for hop schedule, it really depends on the type of beer you want. If you were after a pale ale or IPA then both would probably warrant more late addition hops, and the IPA would warrant significantly more IBUs (i.e. bittering hops).

 

[Sir-Hops-A-Lot]

When you said that you liked the current beer that you have, my thought was: Don't monkey with it! Holding back at this point may be much smarter than tinkering with it. Sometimes it's that dissatisfaction that ruins the beer. I'm currently enjoying a malty brown ale that I wasn't quite happy with but it's maturing in the cold keg and tastes better every time I drink it!

158 for 80 mins seems odd. I've seen and used 158 but never past 60 mins. Using 152 for 60 might produce a beer with similar gravity to the extract one that you enjoyed.

The 1.003 FG is usually a saison. Something isn't right.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I wonder if the instructions to "mash at 158" were actually meant as "add your grains to 158 degree strike water," which would give a much more normal light-to-medium-body mash temperature, depending on the equipment. If that's the case, and the true mash temp was down around 149 (again, totally dependent on the equipment), then the bizarre conditions of the FG would make more sense.

EDIT: Still does not really explain why this batch is too "malty."