Yet another single tier build thread (and some questions)

[sudsandswine]

I was looking to simplify my all grain brewing setup by building a simple 3 tier stand, but the project quickly took a different turn (as most of my projects do) and I found myself planning a much more complicated, time consuming, and expensive single tier HERMS brewing setup.

I based my design largely upon mplutodh1's design (an excellent thread to look at if you are planning something similar). The stand is currently being assembled by my welder and it should be ready in a couple days, so I'll have pictures coming soon.

I have a few questions I would greatly appreciate some input on.

I decided to use just two burners, one under the HLT and one under the brew kettle. I would like to use a temperature probe on the outlet of the HERMS coil to automate the firing of the burner to maintain the proper water temperature in the tank so I can dial in my mashing temperature right where I want it. I suppose a large factor how this will be handled is deciding on what brew controller I would like to use, which I have not done yet. I have seen the Honeywell kit that has the pilot light and controller, but it's a bit on the pricey side. Since I'll only need it on one burner, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but if I can do it effectively for cheaper, I'm all ears.

I don't plan to go quite as far with the automation as some of the awesome stands I've seen, so I do not plan to purchase solenoid valves to control the flow of liquid - I'm fine with manual ball valves for that. The automation of mashing temps is really my main priority as far as that's concerned.

Also, I've seen some setups where the HLT is used as an ice bath and hot wort is routed through the HERMS coil to bring it down to pitching temps, but I would prefer not to have to purchase ice every time I brew ($$$) so I was planning on routing cold water through the HERMS coil and essentially turning it into a big immersion wort chiller. Does anybody have thoughts on this?

Once it's welded up and I have everything in place I plan to prime it and then use high temperature engine block paint to paint the stand. I figure it should hold up well to the heat from the burners since engine blocks get pretty darn hot, but I have read people had issues with their finishes bubbling or burning on the areas closer to the burner. I only want to have to paint/coat it once, so I need something durable.

 

[sudsandswine]

Nobody?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Don't fret... when you get some pictures, this thread will be hopping.

The only gas burner I have is a turkey fryer, and I have a RIMs setup, so I don't have much input to offer at this point.

I can however bump your thread, so maybe someone else will chime in

 

[sudsandswine]

LOL...well thanks for the moral support.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I do have some experience with PID's and I am in the process of building an all electric rig with a BCS-460. Maiden brew 2 weeks ago went well, just a bit of tweaking needed here and there.

I built a "portable" HERMs coil with mixing valves that I can hang in my HLT and tried one time to use it. Without pretty good HLT temp control it was more trouble than it was worth, so now I use the coil occasionally for cooling.
When I use it for cooling, I usually put it in a bucket of overflowing water and pump hot wort through it back to the BK. Then one pass through the CFC and into the fermentor.

 

[sudsandswine]

So are you saying you were unable to easily lock in a mashing temp using a HERMS?

Here's a couple pics of me polishing up some kegs I have (this is the best condition keg of the four I have, the others are going to be a pain to get all the scratches out...ugh)

I'm using a medium Gator polishing pad, I figure I'll probably need a heavy pad for the kegs that are in worse condition.

I started with the "middle" section of the keg, by the time I figured my process out on the outer two sections I was able to make a more "uniform" finish on it. It's a PITA, but oh well!

 

[Ohio-Ed]

So are you saying you were unable to easily lock in a mashing temp using a HERMS?

Here's a couple pics of me polishing up some kegs I have (this is the best condition keg of the four I have, the others are going to be a pain to get all the scratches out...ugh)

I'm using a medium Gator polishing pad, I figure I'll probably need a heavy pad for the kegs that are in worse condition.

I started with the "middle" section of the keg, by the time I figured my process out on the outer two sections I was able to make a more "uniform" finish on it. It's a PITA, but oh well!

I had problems maintaining mash temps but I was using a turkey fryer to heat the HLT and valves on the coil to determine how much flow went through the coil and how much bypassed. I had major temp swings in the HLT. If you have temp control of the HLT via gas control valves you should be ok.

Kegs are looking good. I have thought about polishing mine, but they are wrapped in insulation during the brew so it's not high on my list right now.

 

[sudsandswine]

It's pretty easy, just tedious...getting between the "AB letters" is difficult but that area of the keg is going to be bolted to a tilting frame so I'm not too concerned about it being absolutely perfect there.

 

[sudsandswine]

My stand is nearly finished being welded, just need to drop off the metal for the heat shields to my welder and it should be good to go!

 

[diatonic]

Looking good! Kinda wishing I had done the hinged tippy dumps.

 

[sudsandswine]

Looking good! Kinda wishing I had done the hinged tippy dumps.

I figure it'll help make it easier to clean out.

 

[sudsandswine]

Hey guys!

I have to give another huge thank you to mplutodh1 for the plans he so graciously posted in his build thread - my welder was very impressed and it made it a lot easier on him (and me) to get this stand going.

I modified the design by only using two burners (I hope I don't need to fire under my MLT with a HERMS design - easily fixable if so) and changed the handle a bit but I'm very happy with the way the stand turned out. My kegs fit in the frame like a glove.

I've been slacking on my keg polish and prep, so now that the stand is sitting in my garage I have physical motivation to get it done! Anyway, here's the pictures of my rig.

 

[mplutodh1]

Glad we could help! Looking good.

One thing we have noticed with ours (as we've loaded more and more stuff on to it is that the tires do get a bit squished - we're hoping to get more fittings together this weekend and load her up with some water and see how they do, we may end up swapping them out at a later date; just thought I'd update you on that.

 

[sudsandswine]

Yeah, my tires are a bit under inflated right now, but I was wondering if that were going to happen.

 

[willynilly]

Why not use a solid wheel?

 

[ThePig]

I was looking to simplify my all grain brewing setup by building a simple 3 tier stand, but the project quickly took a

different turn (as most of my projects do) and I found myself planning a much more complicated, time consuming, and expensive single tier HERMS brewing setup.

LOL!!! I've been there before...

I decided to use just two burners, one under the HLT and one under the brew kettle. I would like to use a temperature probe on the outlet of the HERMS coil to automate the firing of the burner to maintain the proper water temperature in the tank so I can dial in my mashing temperature right where I want it. I suppose a large factor how this will be handled is deciding on what brew controller I would like to use, which I have not done yet. I have seen the Honeywell kit that has the pilot light and controller, but it's a bit on the pricey side. Since I'll only need it on one burner, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but if I can do it effectively for cheaper, I'm all ears.

Spend the cash on the Honeywell (are you looking at the Y8610U6006) and a PID or system controller (ex. BCS is what I use). Automation increases potential failure points vs. an all manual system. Automated systems can be a nightmare to manage, troubleshoot and maintain without the right equipment designed for the purpose. I learned this the hard way. A few extra dollars today will pay for itself in uptime, ease of use, etc... over time.

I don't plan to go quite as far with the automation as some of the awesome stands I've seen, so I do not plan to purchase solenoid valves to control the flow of liquid - I'm fine with manual ball valves for that. The automation of mashing temps is really my main priority as far as that's concerned.

Valve control may not cost you that much to implement. Your setup is the same as mine: HERMS, single tier, HLT+MT+Kettle, and burners under the kettle & HLT. I didn't want to automate all 8 valves in my system, but I did want to automate the re-circ mash process to re-direct flow through my heat exhanger and control the mash temp. If you built it with a system controller (I used the BCS) you could use that to trigger your burners and flip a couple valves/pumps. you could get the controller up and running and initially control your burners then (down the road sometime...) add the soleniod valves and SSRs needed for the valves/pumps. I was fine with manual ball valves for the first 50 sessions - after that constantly staring at the temp guage and flipping valves got old real quick.

Also, I've seen some setups where the HLT is used as an ice bath and hot wort is routed through the HERMS coil to bring it down to pitching temps, but I would prefer not to have to purchase ice every time I brew ($$$) so I was planning on routing cold water through the HERMS coil and essentially turning it into a big immersion wort chiller. Does anybody have thoughts on this?

I initially thought about that but went with a CF chiller off the kettle outlet. I didn't want to increase the risk of contamination by sending cooled wort back through my system. The cold side of my rig can be taken apart and cleaned/sterilized vs. the hot side of my system which can also be taken down but is more typically CIP. During the boil, I start the cleaning process and use the HLT to heat warm water for my acid wash. You wouldn't be able to do this using the HLT to cool your wort.

Once it's welded up and I have everything in place I plan to prime it and then use high temperature engine block paint to paint the stand. I figure it should hold up well to the heat from the burners since engine blocks get pretty darn hot, but I have read people had issues with their finishes bubbling or burning on the areas closer to the burner. I only want to have to paint/coat it once, so I need something durable.

I'd reccomend powder coating the stand and hi-temp paint the burner racks. I used an epoxy paint on my stand and a high temp paint on my burner racks. I have to touch it up every 5-7 sessions. Paint gets beat-up from spoons, lids, stainless fittings, etc... banging against it. I'd like to strip mine down and powder coat the main frame and re-spray the hi-temp on the burner racks - if it weren't such a PITA to take it apart and strip it, I'd have already done it.

 

[sudsandswine]

Yes, I did plan to go with the Honeywell kit (hence the "here comes the expensive part...lol).

Since making the post you responded to, I have decided to use some sort of plate chiller like a Therminator to cool my wort instead of using an immersion or counterflow type chiller.

The company in my city I contacted regarding powder coating was unable to ever get me a quote, despite multiple requests, so I decided they must not want my money. At this point I was planning on putting on a good coat of primer, and doing the whole stand in high temp engine paint. I dunno.

 

[mplutodh1]

Yes, I did plan to go with the Honeywell kit (hence the "here comes the expensive part...lol).

Since making the post you responded to, I have decided to use some sort of plate chiller like a Therminator to cool my wort instead of using an immersion or counterflow type chiller.

The company in my city I contacted regarding powder coating was unable to ever get me a quote, despite multiple requests, so I decided they must not want my money. At this point I was planning on putting on a good coat of primer, and doing the whole stand in high temp engine paint. I dunno.

Make sure to look at the paint you're considering and double check it doesnt need a high temp cure process, most of the engine paints we looked at required it so we just decided to go BBQ black, cheap and easy to reapply if necessary.

To start we're probably just going to use the HERMS coil in the HLT as a chiller, fill it with an ice bath and go that route. We'll eventually probably go with a plate chiller but trying to keep the cost and complexity manageable so we can get brewing.

 

[ThePig]

I use a Therminator as well - it works great. Bummer on the powder coater. See if you can find another and get a good quote before you paint it, you might be surprised at the cost. I got a quote for $320 which included blasting - I'm planning on tearing my system down in the fall.

 

[sudsandswine]

There's really no other places close to me, and being that I don't have a truck, transportation of the stand is another factor. Most of the high temp engine paint says it cures fine at room temperature. I may go that way, I don't know. I probably won't do any painting at all until I have all the hardware that will eventually be screwed/bolted to it anyway.