Yellow stuff in krausen

[MrSpiffy]

I'm about to reach to a secondary for dry-hopping, and I noticed some yellow stuff in the krausen. It looks mineraly or crystalline, and I don't believe it's mold or an infection. But I'm curious if anyone knows what this is.

Also, I've never had a beer with a yeast cake on top and bottom before. Most of it's on the bottom. Maybe it's just a bunch of still-active yeast. But that's new for me. Any thoughts? A yeast blend, maybe?

For reference, this is a clone of Weldwerks Juicy Bits NE IPA. It's supposed to be hazy and citrusy.

 

[Coffeeturnal]

No idea for sure, but I'd guess hop material from any trub that made it into the carboy?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hops!

 

[jjw5015]

Hops, and if the yeast hasn't dropped yet, it may not be done so you may be premature in transferring. Also maybe you're doing it because of the headspace in primary, but you shouldn't secondary overly hoppy beers. Lots of oxygen will be introduced.

 

[MrSpiffy]

Thanks, I figured it was probably hop material, but can't hurt to ask.

I try to be careful during racking to secondary. No splashing and as little aeration as possible. I wanted to rack into the dry hops, as well as get off the yeast cake/trub to avoid off flavors. The recipe calls for dry hopping in two stages. Getting the hops through the yeast could have been interesting.

The recipe also mentions dry-hopping just before fermentation is complete, so I fully-anticipate the yeast isn't done, yet.

This is one of the largest cakes I've had, yet. I tossed in two liquid vials. Probably had a ton of sugar to eat and just took off.

 

[MrSpiffy]

All done, and ready to stick back in the temp-controlled freezer.

 

[RPh_Guy]

That space between the top of the beer and the airlock in the secondary vessel looks empty... But it's full of air, which contains plenty of oxygen. Oxygen is the enemy of beer.

Contact with the yeast does not hurt the beer in any way.

 

[MrSpiffy]

Well, without a way to purge the oxygen (say, with CO2), it is what it is. Either way, the beer will be exposed to some oxygen. Is this worse than letting it sit for a long time on the yeast cake? I've heard that can produce off flavors, too.

Either way, I'm sure it'll perfectly drinkable. I haven't run into issues with previous beers having too much head space in secondary. But, this is my first time using this much hops.

Since the yeast are still active, I'm guessing they'll push a lot of that air out with CO2. I guess we'll find out!

 

[MrSpiffy]

Also... maybe we should tell the BrewBro guys that oxygen exposure should probably stop at some point, lol...

We know how important it is that your beer gets lots of oxygen throughout the entire brewing process. Our system infuses oxygen into the fermenting beer all the way from the yeast pitch to bottling.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/brewing-system-brew-single-pint-homebrew.html

EDIT: Ooooooookay, just noticed that's an April Fool's joke... *facepalm* It seemed really odd. I've always tried to avoid oxygen, except right at the start of fermentation. This makes more sense, lol.

 

[day_trippr]

Pretty sure any April 1st article on HBT is a parody

 

[jjw5015]

Well, without a way to purge the oxygen (say, with CO2), it is what it is. Either way, the beer will be exposed to some oxygen. Is this worse than letting it sit for a long time on the yeast cake? I've heard that can produce off flavors, too.

Yes, very much so.

 

[MrSpiffy]

Pretty sure any April 1st article on HBT is a parody

Considering it's October, it didn't even register that there might be an April 1st article on the front page.

 

[day_trippr]

Management likes to have fun

In any case, roughly six hours post-pitch is the very last time your wort should ever see oxygen in any form...

Cheers!

 

[MrSpiffy]

Management likes to have fun

In any case, roughly six hours post-pitch is the very last time your wort should ever see oxygen in any form...

Cheers!

That's ideal. But, given I need to, at the very least, transfer to an open bottling bucket, add sugar, and fill bottles, that's not exactly realistic. I imagine that's pretty common for beginners, too. Minimal exposure is as good as I can do.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Minimal exposure is as good as I can do.

Minimal exposure means not using a secondary.

But, you're the boss in your brew house

 

[Coffeeturnal]

I'd be looking to add some sugar to that too purge the headspace via refermentation. I've completely ruined neipas with way less oxygen than that.

Leaving beer on the yeast being bad is completely overblown on a homebrew scale. I've left beer on the yeast cake for months with no issues.

 

[MrSpiffy]

The fermentation is still going. I'm still getting bubbles in my airlock even now. (The recipe called for first dry-hop just before complete fermentation.) I'll see how this turns out, but good idea for the next batch if this one doesn't work out.

This is my first really hoppy beer. So I'm learning quite a bit with this one.

 

[seatazzz]

For my hoppy beers, I add the dry hops about two days before I estimate primary to be done; the theory, which makes sense, is the the yeast are still moving around in there and will move the oils from the dry hops where they need to go; into the beer instead of just sitting on top. I've done secondaries twice in my career; first one was way back before I knew better, and second was to get a super-clear lager for a competition. For run-of-the-mill beers intended for home consumption, I never do a secondary. With two humans, three cats, and two dogs in a tiny house, there's too much crud floating around in the air to risk it. If you have healthy yeast, there's no risk in letting your beer sit on the cake for as long as it needs to. Secondary fermentation went out with bell-bottoms in the late 70's.

 

[troxerX]

Well, without a way to purge the oxygen (say, with CO2), it is what it is. Either way, the beer will be exposed to some oxygen. Is this worse than letting it sit for a long time on the yeast cake? I've heard that can produce off flavors, too.

Either way, I'm sure it'll perfectly drinkable. I haven't run into issues with previous beers having too much head space in secondary. But, this is my first time using this much hops.

Since the yeast are still active, I'm guessing they'll push a lot of that air out with CO2. I guess we'll find out!

MrSpiffy, no need to worry on a NEIPA sitting on a yeast cake as it is perfectly fine, actually is sometimes necessary as yeast help cleanup, I’ve done it many times with no issues. However, you will be surprised as how little oxygen during transferring to secondary, bottling or kegging can be detrimental to a delicate NEIPA. Here are my suggestions, 1) if you decide to transfer to secondary do it while the yeast is highly active to aid in O2 scrubbing (what you were discouraged by someone else earlier), 2) if fermentation is done and you decide to transfer, purge with CO2 the secondary before racking and 3) both options 1 and 2 combined. Little bit of science, CO2 has about 1.5 times the weight of air and thus it is denser and heavier, when purging your secondary, slowly and gently spray CO2 in your carboy and as it settles it will push the air out by gravity and density, and stay there (make sure carboy is not moved too much) and slowly rack into it while periodically gently spraying CO2. As the beer fills the secondary, it will slowly push the CO2 upward as well. Once you finish racking then do a final gentle spray before dropping the airlock. Not a perfect solution but significantly improves the process. Try it and let me know how it goes.

 

[troxerX]

That's ideal. But, given I need to, at the very least, transfer to an open bottling bucket, add sugar, and fill bottles, that's not exactly realistic. I imagine that's pretty common for beginners, too. Minimal exposure is as good as I can do.

Completely doable w/ no O2 presence!, I do not keg - I old school bottle all my brews including NEIPAs with a bottling bucket, wand and bottles, all my beers match or exceed commercial brews w/ no off flavors or browning of the brew’s color, NEIPA brews I have submitted for competitions place between 1st and 3rd places, check my Instagram and you’ll see, no kidding. It is completely doable.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Some relevant facts:

Oxygen enters through the airlock. This means beer is exposed to more oxygen the longer it sits in the fermenter after fermentation is complete.

Bottled CO2 contains some oxygen. Therefore "purging" with artificial CO2 is always incomplete, and force carbonation always introduces oxygen.

CO2 does not form a blanket in the vessel. Gases mix quite readily. Look up the average speed of a molecule of CO2 at room temperature.

Any open transfer (e.g. to a secondary fermenter) will pick up significant amounts of oxygen.

 

[troxerX]

Some relevant facts:

Oxygen enters through the airlock. This means beer is exposed to more oxygen the longer it sits in the fermenter after fermentation is complete.

Bottled CO2 contains some oxygen. Therefore "purging" with artificial CO2 is always incomplete, and force carbonation always introduces oxygen.

CO2 does not form a blanket in the vessel. Gases mix quite readily. Look up the average speed of a molecule of CO2 at room temperature.

Any open transfer (e.g. to a secondary fermenter) will pick up significant amounts of oxygen.

Agreed, as I said in my previous post it’s not a perfect process but it has worked for me extremely well and the quality of my beers have significantly improved after applying these principles, even when bottling. We could sit down and argue about O2 content of compressed CO2 and the kinetic energy of CO2 molecules but at the end of the day for a typical homebrewer, results is what only counts.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

... Is this worse than letting it sit for a long time on the yeast cake? ...

Autolysis takes much longer than most people think. I hear people say to get the beer off the yeast as soon as possible. You're actually doing your beer harm by not leaving it in the fermenter longer. Not only the oxygen issue, but the yeast will clean up a lot of the compounds given off during fermentation that can cause off flavors. I routinely leave my beers in the fermenter for 4 weeks.

And, you will introduce oxygen when dry hopping, but dry hopping in the primary fermenter (I don't usually use that term, since secondary fermenter doesn't exist for me) prevents further oxygenation.

Edit: I posted after quoting the OP above, then went back to read the rest of the thread. The very next post after the one I quoted said that this thread started in October of 2019. I'm commenting on old threads again..