Yeast washing too time consuming, looking for other methods

[jcorn]

I look at everything as time vs cost in my brewing. For me yeast washing just seems way too time consuming for my methods. Do keep in mind that I use only 6.9 gallon wine bucket for fermenting 5.25 gallons of beer. I definitely prefer this method because using the buckets I can do any size beer without worry of a blow off tube and easy cleanup vs. a carboy. It literally takes me less than 2 mins. to clean my bucket with a soft hot rag. I am getting way more into liquid yeast these days and am looking to reuse it as often as I can. As great as yeast washing can be for some, it really is just not for me. I end up having to boil water, cool the water, add the water to my trub cake and transfer to a clear carboy, 1 gallon growler, .75 growler and onto mason jars. It is just too much sanitizing and time consuming for me to keep up with.
I brew all of my batches via pellet hops being added to a large bag in the boil. That way I can dispose of the material in the bag for easier access to my cakes. What is my best option for saving the trub cake that remains after I siphon all of my beer off of it? I want to be able to reuse my yeast at least once but do it very easily and prefer not having to make yet another starter. Can I just simply steal the whole cake into some masor jars and just repitch those jars a couple weeks later into a similar beer style? My worts are typically always around 1.062 and I always make a 2 liter starter for my first generation.

 

[jwalker1140]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1921760


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[masonsjax]

You can collect the yeast into jars or whatever and pitch it directly into a new beer within a few weeks. Beyond that and you should make a starter. It's a very controversial topic but there is evidence showing that washing / rinsing at the homebrew level can have a negative effect on your yeast and that under a little bit of beer is the ideal place to store yeast if you're not freezing it for extra long term storage. Just make sure to leave a little beer behind when racking that can be swirled into the yeast slurry and poured into your mason jars. As it settles in the fridge you'll have a little protective layer of beer on top.

 

[jcorn]

I love reading Denny's posts. He reminds me of myself only 10 times smarter and equally as "lazy for awesome strategies in brewing that work". After reading most of that post I still can't see a reason why I couldn't snag the whole yeast cake into 4 different pint jars and repitch one jar within a week of a new beer (any longer and yes a starter would absolutely be necessary). If I only used a 1/4 of the fresh cake I would not see much more ester production then normal, right? If the yeast has doubled or tripled in cells for the total cake, taking 1/4 would of that cake (one jar of the four total) would make healthy reproduction continue in a new batch and should almost promote healthy growth since the cell count is as low as it originally was. Even with a simple one time wash of the single jar I should be back to square one with cell count?

 

[harry_the_face]

I have taken the yeast off the 5 gal batch. I usually get 2 quart jars of liquid including the left over beer required to get the yeast cake out. Ater it settles and i pour off the beer I end up with about a quart jar of yeast slurry including the trub and such. I usually pitch half of the slurry on the next batch.


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[flars]

I bottled a beer yesterday. I boiled up 2.5 quarts of water and set it outside to cool. Poured it into the carboy last night. This afternoon swirled up the carboy, layed it on its side tipped forward. Hour later I had a dense trub layer at the shoulder, filled two quart jars. Refrigerated.
Brewing again tomorrow or next day. I'll use the yeast in one of the quarts. In a few days or so I'll decant the other and save the yeast in a pint jar. If it becomes infected I won't worry. In three to four weeks I'll have another two quart jars with yeast.
I don't boil up jars anymore. Make use hot water rinses for the jars and Starsan.
You can pitch part of the yeast cake also. More estimating what the yeast percentage is though.
Adding the water and pouring off with the left over beer you will have a better idea of the milliliters of yeast actually harvested.

I believe Uniondr makes use of the yeast cake slurry fairly often.

 

[jcorn]

You can collect the yeast into jars or whatever and pitch it directly into a new beer within a few weeks. Beyond that and you should make a starter. It's a very controversial topic but there is evidence showing that washing / rinsing at the homebrew level can have a negative effect on your yeast and that under a little bit of beer is the ideal place to store yeast if you're not freezing it for extra long term storage. Just make sure to leave a little beer behind when racking that can be swirled into the yeast slurry and poured into your mason jars. As it settles in the fridge you'll have a little protective layer of beer on top.

This would only apply to yeast washing though, right? not cake saving into multiple jars?

 

[jcorn]

I bottled a beer yesterday. I boiled up 2.5 quarts of water and set it outside to cool. Poured it into the carboy last night. This afternoon swirled up the carboy, layed it on its side tipped forward. Hour later I had a dense trub layer at the shoulder, filled two quart jars. Refrigerated.
Brewing again tomorrow or next day. I'll use the yeast in one of the quarts. In a few days or so I'll decant the other and save the yeast in a pint jar. If it becomes infected I won't worry. In three to four weeks I'll have another two quart jars with yeast.
I don't boil up jars anymore. Make use hot water rinses for the jars and Starsan.
You can pitch part of the yeast cake also. More estimating what the yeast percentage is though.
Adding the water and pouring off with the left over beer you will have a better idea of the milliliters of yeast actually harvested.

I believe Uniondr makes use of the yeast cake slurry fairly often.

So it sounds like you do pretty much half of the total yeast cake in a way per next batch pitch w/out a starter

 

[jcorn]

I have taken the yeast off the 5 gal batch. I usually get 2 quart jars of liquid including the left over beer required to get the yeast cake out. Ater it settles and i pour off the beer I end up with about a quart jar of yeast slurry including the trub and such. I usually pitch half of the slurry on the next batch.


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So you just remove the top part of the yeast cake since it is the most present part with yeast since trub falls first? How do you know if you are accurately pitching into your next batch or not?

 

[JPrather]

After reading most of that post I still can't see a reason why I couldn't snag the whole yeast cake into 4 different pint jars and repitch one jar within a week of a new beer (any longer and yes a starter would absolutely be necessary).

You can. Lots of people do exactly that.

Also +1 to the suggestion of leaving a little beer behind to swirl the slurry with. That seems to be the best way to go and is very easy, IMO.

 

[jcorn]

You can. Lots of people do exactly that.

Also +1 to the suggestion of leaving a little beer behind to swirl the slurry with. That seems to be the best way to go and is very easy, IMO.

It just sucks never knowing if you could possibly be under pitching by doing so. There is really no possible way to calculate accurate cell count other than the first generation presented in the packet. I gotta stop beng such a cheap *ss and start paying the 6 bucks for a packet of liquid. It's really not badly priced by any means and you know exactly what you get.

 

[JPrather]

It just sucks never knowing if you could possibly be under pitching by doing so. There is really no possible way to calculate accurate cell count other than the first generation presented in the packet. I gotta stop beng such a cheap *ss and start paying the 6 bucks for a packet of liquid. It's really not badly priced by any means and you know exactly what you get.

That would be true if the optimal use of liquid yeast was "pitch and forget". But, pitching liquid yeast without a starter is nearly guaranteeing an underpitch for any batches over about 3 gallons.

So, even buying a new vial of liquid yeast each batch still leaves you needing to make a starter and nearly the same level of overall uncertainty. The only solution there is to buy and pitch 2+ vials of liquid yeast which equals a huge increase in cost per batch.

People seem to have pretty good results using the mrmalty calculator and making starters. As far as I can tell, making the proper starter with your rinsed yeast is pretty damned reliable as far as getting pitching rates right.

 

[jcorn]

That would be true if the optimal use of liquid yeast was "pitch and forget". But, pitching liquid yeast without a starter is nearly guaranteeing an underpitch for any batches over about 3 gallons.

So, even buying a new vial of liquid yeast each batch still leaves you needing to make a starter and nearly the same level of overall uncertainty. The only solution there is to buy and pitch 2+ vials of liquid yeast which equals a huge increase in cost per batch.

People seem to have pretty good results using the mrmalty calculator and making starters. As far as I can tell, making the proper starter with your rinsed yeast is pretty damned reliable as far as getting pitching rates right.

Honestly, to me it is pretty sad we can't even buy one packet of yeast to pitch into an average of 5 gallons of beer without a starter. Yeast starters are great and all but why is that a dry yeast packet gives you plenty of cells for a typical 5 gallon batch but yet liquid is double the price and can't even come prepared properly to be pitched into an average 5 gallon batch? It is kind of ridiculous in this day in age... although I am ok with it and choose to take it into my own hands, I shouldn't have to intensify the power of a yeast packet that was professionally lab made to be inadequate for a typical 5 gallon batch of beer. It needs to come ready to pitch for modern day standards. I would pay more to be able to smack and pitch.

 

[AnOldUR]

East Coast Yeast, LLC
Brewer's Yeast Cultures: Ale & Lager strains
125ml bottles for 5 gallon pitches; cell count range 2-4 hundred billion cells.
Intended for approximately 1 million cells/ml/ºP of wort (S.G. <1.060). Let culture warm to room temperature 2-4 hours. Pitch on cool side of fermentation range for best results. Aerate wort well upon pitch.

 

[JPrather]

It needs to come ready to pitch for modern day standards. I would pay more to be able to smack and pitch.

That's what buying more than one vial of yeast is.

 

[goopyquill]

this is what i do https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/yeast-harvesting-novel-approach.html

 

[Weezy]

I harvest from starters. I'll jar two or three 10ml samples, for future starters. I mix with glycerin and distilled water in 50ml sample containers, then freeze.

Its gotten to be a quick habit. I decant my starter slurry into one of those cream pouring cups for coffee that comes with house dishware. The little spout lets me pour off into containers easily, then the rest goes into the fermenter.

edit: here's a pic:

 

[RM-MN]

Honestly, to me it is pretty sad we can't even buy one packet of yeast to pitch into an average of 5 gallons of beer without a starter. Yeast starters are great and all but why is that a dry yeast packet gives you plenty of cells for a typical 5 gallon batch but yet liquid is double the price and can't even come prepared properly to be pitched into an average 5 gallon batch? It is kind of ridiculous in this day in age... although I am ok with it and choose to take it into my own hands, I shouldn't have to intensify the power of a yeast packet that was professionally lab made to be inadequate for a typical 5 gallon batch of beer. It needs to come ready to pitch for modern day standards. I would pay more to be able to smack and pitch.

White labs and Wyeast both would tell you that one packet/vial of yeast is plenty for a 5 gallon batch of beer up to 1.060 OG. Mr. Malty says no, you need twice that much or your beer won't be any good. Why?

Here's an experiment done on pitching rates with one being the "optimal amount", one being 5 times the optimal amount, and the third being about 1/8 the optimal amount. Read through it a couple times, compare the results and decide if it really is worthwhile to worry about the perfect pitch rate, the "Holy Grail" of homebrewing or if somewhere close is "good enough". RDWHAHB

http://sciencebrewer.com/2012/03/02/pitching-rate-experiment-part-deux-results/

 

[boydster]

White labs and Wyeast both would tell you that one packet/vial of yeast is plenty for a 5 gallon batch of beer up to 1.060 OG. Mr. Malty says no, you need twice that much or your beer won't be any good. Why?

Here's an experiment done on pitching rates with one being the "optimal amount", one being 5 times the optimal amount, and the third being about 1/8 the optimal amount. Read through it a couple times, compare the results and decide if it really is worthwhile to worry about the perfect pitch rate, the "Holy Grail" of homebrewing or if somewhere close is "good enough". RDWHAHB

http://sciencebrewer.com/2012/03/02/pitching-rate-experiment-part-deux-results/

I've seen this one posted a lot lately, and the results are interesting. It's worth at least looking at the results of others as well, and also doing some experimenting on your own with pitch rate. Sean Terrill did an experiment that seemed to have more dramatic results than the one on sciencebrewer, which is why I think this is one of those things everyone will have to try and figure out their own preference:

http://seanterrill.com/2010/05/09/yeast-pitching-rate-results/

 

[kombat]

Can I just simply steal the whole cake into some masor jars and just repitch those jars a couple weeks later into a similar beer style?

Yup, that's what I do.

When I'm getting ready to keg a batch of beer, I take 4 empty, sanitized Mason jars and fill 3 of them with water straight from the tap. Then after I've racked the beer out of the carboy, I dump the 3 jars into the carboy, swirl it around, then pour the slurry into the 4 jars. The 4 jars get labeled and put into the fridge.

I use one jar for another 5 gallon batch of beer, effectively repitching 1/4 of the yeast cake. If I'm re-using them within 2-3 weeks, I don't even bother making a starter. I just take 1 jar out of the fridge at the start of the brew day to let it warm up, then when it's time to pitch the yeast, I just decant the water, swirl up the yeast, and pour the whole thing into the batch. Works great.

 

[kombat]

It just sucks never knowing if you could possibly be under pitching by doing so. There is really no possible way to calculate accurate cell count other than the first generation presented in the packet.

Well, you could get a microscope and a hemocytometer and actually count them, but I'm guess that's not what you're looking for since we're trying to simplify the process for you.

When it comes to yeast pitching rates, the elephant in the room is that it's all really just a guessing game. All we're doing is making the best, most educated guess we can.

When re-pitching a yeast cake, I assume the yeast viability is very high, at least for those first 2 weeks or so. It's got to be at least 80%. As for cell counts, we can approximate the cell density of yeast slurry at somewhere between 2 and 4 billion cells per mL. If you've ever used a White Labs vial of yeast, consider the thickness of that liquid. It's pretty runny, right? That's what 100 billion cells looks like, and those vials are 35 mL. At 2-4 billion cells/mL, that would yield between 70 and 140 billion cells, which is about right.

So if you're pitching yeast slurry that's roughly the same consistency as what you get from a White Labs vial of yeast, if you estimate the low end of 2 billion cells/mL, and you require, say, 200 billion cells for your 5 gallon batch of 1.040 beer, then you'd pitch 100 mL of your yeast slurry. If you believe your viable cell density is toward the higher end (4 billion cells/mL), then you'd use 50 mL of slurry.

Either way, if you're dividing your yeast cake up into 4 Mason jars and pitching the yeast from 1 jar into a 5 gallon batch, in my experience that's considerably more than 100 mL of liquid. So I'm probably overpitching a little bit, but given that overpitching is preferable to underpitching, and I can't be certain of the cell viability, nor how much of that liquid is trub, I'm comfortable with that estimate. And my results have been satisfactory.

 

[fearwig]

White labs and Wyeast both would tell you that one packet/vial of yeast is plenty for a 5 gallon batch of beer up to 1.060 OG. Mr. Malty says no, you need twice that much or your beer won't be any good. Why?

Here's an experiment done on pitching rates with one being the "optimal amount", one being 5 times the optimal amount, and the third being about 1/8 the optimal amount. Read through it a couple times, compare the results and decide if it really is worthwhile to worry about the perfect pitch rate, the "Holy Grail" of homebrewing or if somewhere close is "good enough". RDWHAHB

http://sciencebrewer.com/2012/03/02/pitching-rate-experiment-part-deux-results/

I thought this was great when I saw it, but one data point (if you can even quite call it that) is not very reassuring, especially as he used a belgian strain, which in my mind would be vastly more forgiving of underpitch since off flavors are disguised by desirable esters and phenols. Still, I think pitch rates are like aiming at a dartboard with a cannon--don't worry about the bull's eye, just hit the board.

The variables you have to guess at when you use a calculator like MrMalty make the result grossly unreliable, but people get a false sense of security from the sciencey numbers and dials even as they're taking a wild stab at "yeast density". You use these things to get ballpark figures, which is all you need to start. The only way to get professionally consistent pitch rates without spending $10/5gal on yeast is to do it over, and over, and over, and keep your variables at a minimum while you suss out the ideal pitch.

Most people won't want to do that, and that's cool. Make beer.

 

[Weezy]

I thought the same thing about the Belgian strain. Its still good reading and good info, thanks for posting.

I'd argue that its only 'under' pitching if the beer does not fully attenuate. Its more likely just low pitching rate most of the time. My opinion is that attenuation is the important part of the story. Flavor variability is soooo dependent on yeast strain and fermentation conditions. Arguably more so than pitch rate. Some strains readily kick off flavors. I guess I'm saying taste testing is only one measure when evaluating the effects of pitching rate. You could probably just as easy mimic the taste results by temp control variations and strain choice.

You could test for true under pitching by checking just attenuation vs. Different pitching rates, which I'd expect to be strain specific. You could determine a minimum threshold pitching rate to fully attenuate the beer, per strain. Then, per strain, evaluate flavor effects at that pitching rate and above.

The true, 'optimal' pitching rate would be the lowest point where the beer fully attenuates and also minimizes off flavors for your fermentation conditions(temp, time, etc). This would be per strain. This maybe also be completely impractical to determine and to try to use. We end up going from experience and habits.

 

[fearwig]

In his case the underpitch overattenuated, though. I think attenuation issues are too often ascribed to underpitch and too rarely ascribed to fermentability (mash). The yeast will reproduce, I figure you'd need a combination of underpitch and really bad aeration to prevent that. And even then, the survivors would keep on chugging through what they can eat, yeast is a trooper (it will just make **** flavors if you don't control it).

I imagine he did oxygenate though, which is something most people who underpitch so dramatically probably don't do. Maybe they don't get enough cell reproduction and would have different results.

If every AG brewer who got a stuck fermentation tossed some amylase in his beer to diagnose conversion problems (whether or not they planned to drink it after), I think the conventional wisdom on stuck fermentation most often being a yeast problem would be different, though.

 

[BigFloyd]

I used to wash (it's really a rinse) yeast using boiled/chilled water. As I read what was been written by folks who know a lot more than yeast than I ever will, I slowly became convinced that I was probably doing more harm than good. The only time I use boiled/chilled water now is to sometimes loosen up a stubborn yeast cake (firmed up by a cold crash) from the bottom of the bucket.

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html

 

[flars]

So it sounds like you do pretty much half of the total yeast cake in a way per next batch pitch w/out a starter

I use less than half the yeast cake for the next brew. The amount of yeast I can reclaim varies also. How much I reclaim depends on how the yeast floccculates. If flocculation is quick the yeast solution reclaimed will contain a higher percentage of trub, and vice versa.
It has been about 12 hours since I poured from the carboy into the quart jars. Each jar has a 100ml layer of yeast at the bottom. Only the top 1/4 of each jar has cleared.
With ideal conditions I might pour out 75% of the available yeast from the carboy. I will lose a few more yeast cells when I decant.
At the end I might use 1/3 of the total yeast that was available in the fermentor for the next brew.
I still use the yeast calculators for number of cells needed and the estimate of what I have combined with production date.
Next brew day will be Friday. Have brew meeting tomorrow afternoon.

 

[jwalker1140]

As for cell counts, we can approximate the cell density of yeast slurry at somewhere between 2 and 4 billion cells per mL. If you've ever used a White Labs vial of yeast, consider the thickness of that liquid. It's pretty runny, right? That's what 100 billion cells looks like, and those vials are 35 mL. At 2-4 billion cells/mL, that would yield between 70 and 140 billion cells, which is about right.

So if you're pitching yeast slurry that's roughly the same consistency as what you get from a White Labs vial of yeast, if you estimate the low end of 2 billion cells/mL, and you require, say, 200 billion cells for your 5 gallon batch of 1.040 beer, then you'd pitch 100 mL of your yeast slurry. If you believe your viable cell density is toward the higher end (4 billion cells/mL), then you'd use 50 mL of slurry.

Either way, if you're dividing your yeast cake up into 4 Mason jars and pitching the yeast from 1 jar into a 5 gallon batch, in my experience that's considerably more than 100 mL of liquid. So I'm probably overpitching a little bit, but given that overpitching is preferable to underpitching, and I can't be certain of the cell viability, nor how much of that liquid is trub, I'm comfortable with that estimate. And my results have been satisfactory.

+1

I pretty much do the same thing - pour some slurry into some 1 pint mason jars, toss them into the fridge, decant the beer and pitch a jar within 1 week. I get such better and more consistent results compared to when I used to rinse yeast that I'd never consider going back.

The only thing I question is your slurry cell density estimate of between 2-4 billion cells/mL. Most everything I've read puts the range at 0.5-2 billion cells/mL (see the link I posted in the first reply to this thread for one example). Taking a somewhat conservative estimate of 1 billion cells/mL would put you at 228 mL, or about 1 cup, of slurry for a 1.048 wort. Most of my beers are around 1.050 +/- 0.010 so the ~1.5 cups of slurry in one mason jar (the other ~0.5 cup was the decanted beer) tends to put me squarely in the ballpark. (My personal preference, built up from experience, is to error on the side of overpitching rather than underpitching, which this does for the beers I usually brew.)

I don't need to know precisely how many cells I'm pitching. I need to know that whatever technique I use will consistently produce good beer, and this does. Better than rinsing/washing and often as good or better than making a starter from a fresh pack. The added bonus is that it's also easier than both.

 

[jcorn]

I harvest from starters. I'll jar two or three 10ml samples, for future starters. I mix with glycerin and distilled water in 50ml sample containers, then freeze.

Its gotten to be a quick habit. I decant my starter slurry into one of those cream pouring cups for coffee that comes with house dishware. The little spout lets me pour off into containers easily, then the rest goes into the fermenter.

edit: here's a pic:

Very nice!

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[jcorn]

I use less than half the yeast cake for the next brew. The amount of yeast I can reclaim varies also. How much I reclaim depends on how the yeast floccculates. If flocculation is quick the yeast solution reclaimed will contain a higher percentage of trub, and vice versa.
It has been about 12 hours since I poured from the carboy into the quart jars. Each jar has a 100ml layer of yeast at the bottom. Only the top 1/4 of each jar has cleared.
With ideal conditions I might pour out 75% of the available yeast from the carboy. I will lose a few more yeast cells when I decant.
At the end I might use 1/3 of the total yeast that was available in the fermentor for the next brew.
I still use the yeast calculators for number of cells needed and the estimate of what I have combined with production date.
Next brew day will be Friday. Have brew meeting tomorrow afternoon.

Sounds very ideal to try. I will be doing this next time

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[jcorn]

Well, you could get a microscope and a hemocytometer and actually count them, but I'm guess that's not what you're looking for since we're trying to simplify the process for you.

When it comes to yeast pitching rates, the elephant in the room is that it's all really just a guessing game. All we're doing is making the best, most educated guess we can.

When re-pitching a yeast cake, I assume the yeast viability is very high, at least for those first 2 weeks or so. It's got to be at least 80%. As for cell counts, we can approximate the cell density of yeast slurry at somewhere between 2 and 4 billion cells per mL. If you've ever used a White Labs vial of yeast, consider the thickness of that liquid. It's pretty runny, right? That's what 100 billion cells looks like, and those vials are 35 mL. At 2-4 billion cells/mL, that would yield between 70 and 140 billion cells, which is about right.

So if you're pitching yeast slurry that's roughly the same consistency as what you get from a White Labs vial of yeast, if you estimate the low end of 2 billion cells/mL, and you require, say, 200 billion cells for your 5 gallon batch of 1.040 beer, then you'd pitch 100 mL of your yeast slurry. If you believe your viable cell density is toward the higher end (4 billion cells/mL), then you'd use 50 mL of slurry.

Either way, if you're dividing your yeast cake up into 4 Mason jars and pitching the yeast from 1 jar into a 5 gallon batch, in my experience that's considerably more than 100 mL of liquid. So I'm probably overpitching a little bit, but given that overpitching is preferable to underpitching, and I can't be certain of the cell viability, nor how much of that liquid is trub, I'm comfortable with that estimate. And my results have been satisfactory.

Wonderfully written! Very informative and definitely helpful. I am assuming that only the top portion of the cake contains yeast though right? If the cake splits into 4 different jars and you did not use a jar within one week of capture you would need a starter,right?

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[troglodytes]

this is what i do https://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/yeast-harvesting-novel-approach.html

This approach has become my standard go to now. I used to waste a lot of time boiling, harvesting, sanitizing, etc. But this method is great for a couple reasons.

First off, I only have to sterilize/sanitize a 35ml vial, and since I always make starters with my liquid yeast anyway, I sure have about 20-50B extra cells to mix with some glycerine and throw in the freezer for later.

The second advantage to this method is what really makes it the best for my practice is the fact that whatever yeast I harvest out of the starter has never munched on anything stronger than 1.035 wort. Its like working with a clean slate every time. So I can make that 9% IIPA and go ahead and reuse the same yeast (from the starter) for a 4.6% APA. You really can't beat it.

 

[jcorn]

This approach has become my standard go to now. I used to waste a lot of time boiling, harvesting, sanitizing, etc. But this method is great for a couple reasons.

First off, I only have to sterilize/sanitize a 35ml vial, and since I always make starters with my liquid yeast anyway, I sure have about 20-50B extra cells to mix with some glycerine and throw in the freezer for later.

The second advantage to this method is what really makes it the best for my practice is the fact that whatever yeast I harvest out of the starter has never munched on anything stronger than 1.035 wort. Its like working with a clean slate every time. So I can make that 9% IIPA and go ahead and reuse the same yeast (from the starter) for a 4.6% APA. You really can't beat it.

On the norm I make 2liter starters to achieve my 220 billion cells. Could I make a 4 liter starter and only pitch half the slurry into my 5.25 gallons and jar the rest? Both slurrys would be 220 in theory?

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[Weezy]

On the norm I make 2liter starters to achieve my 220 billion cells. Could I make a 4 liter starter and only pitch half the slurry into my 5.25 gallons and jar the rest? Both slurrys would be 220 in theory?

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No reason you can't. At 4l, I'd consider making a proper, low gravity, low hop, beer for drinking as well as growing yeast!

 

[jcorn]

No reason you can't. At 4l, I'd consider making a proper, low gravity, low hop, beer for drinking as well as growing yeast!

Haha I like the idea but unfortunately I ran the numbers on homebrewers friend yeast calc and a 4 liter starter doesnt produce all that much more than a 2 liter starter. I would need around 460 billion cells to be able to cut the slurry in half. The 2 liter creates around 230, the 4 liter creates around 280. But, starting with a 2.5 liter starter and stepping up once with a 2.5 liter starter does make the cut and make it able to cut one vial or packet of yeast into two pitchable slurrys up to about 6% abv. Of course viabliliy would be a concern for a slurry that sits for weeks before use in the fridge although we would still be looking at a first generation strain.

 

[Weezy]

You can make a nice 2 gal batch size of beer with one 3lb can of LME

 

[jcorn]

This approach has become my standard go to now. I used to waste a lot of time boiling, harvesting, sanitizing, etc. But this method is great for a couple reasons.

First off, I only have to sterilize/sanitize a 35ml vial, and since I always make starters with my liquid yeast anyway, I sure have about 20-50B extra cells to mix with some glycerine and throw in the freezer for later.

The second advantage to this method is what really makes it the best for my practice is the fact that whatever yeast I harvest out of the starter has never munched on anything stronger than 1.035 wort. Its like working with a clean slate every time. So I can make that 9% IIPA and go ahead and reuse the same yeast (from the starter) for a 4.6% APA. You really can't beat it.

The only problem I see with this method is it seems very easy to underpitch your beer. Sure I could bump up a starter by a .5 liter more like what is given in the details but that is not going to give enough to be able to rob a whole pint of slurry away. Bumping a starter up by a .5 liter only gives maybe 20 billion cells. I would end up underpitching my beer I made my starter for by taking away a pint wouldn't I?

 

[jcorn]

You can make a nice 2 gal batch size of beer with one 3lb can of LME

You have already paid for it, might as well enjoy it

 

[AnOldUR]

Never did understand the obsession with starters on HBT. I'd much rather brew a 3-4 gallon batch of medium gravity beer and harvest the yeast.

The last time my stir plate saw action was when a friend borrowed it a year or so ago. :cross:

 

[troglodytes]

The only problem I see with this method is it seems very easy to underpitch your beer. Sure I could bump up a starter by a .5 liter more like what is given in the details but that is not going to give enough to be able to rob a whole pint of slurry away. Bumping a starter up by a .5 liter only gives maybe 20 billion cells. I would end up underpitching my beer I made my starter for by taking away a pint wouldn't I?

The reason I love this method is because I am harvesting unstressed yeast and I can ensure that I don't over or underpitch. For example, my last brew was at 8.3% (OG of 1.081). I was using WLP002 which was a new strain for me and I one I'd love to use again in the future. I needed ~300B yeast cells to pitch the correct amount so I made a 2.1L starter creating (calculated by yeastcalc) 377B cells. I decanted & pitched 5/6th of the starter and froze the other 1/6th.

Now I know I have anywhere between 20 and 50B cells in a vial, and lets say when I use it, its only 50% viable. At worst case scenario I'd make a 500ml starter then step to 1.5L. Boom, I've got my 300B cells for another 8% brew. If I was going for a beer with OG 1.060 as my next one I would skip the 500ml step and just do a 1.5L starter and I'd have the perfect pitching amount.

EDIT: As I was writing, I realized that not everyone has a stir plate. If you use the intermittent shake method of starter aeration, this method would not be for you as the amount of starters you'd have to make would make it very cost and time ineffective.

 

[julioardz]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but sometimes I harvest yeast during active fermentation. I don't do sealed fermentations. When I used a bucket, I usually placed the lid loosely on top. Now, I ferment only in my brew kettle covered with the lid (This is all to streamline my process). So once fermentation is more than half way done, I open the lid, scoop yeast from the krausen into a large mason jar and top it off with some of the fermenting wort. Everything is sanitized of course. Then I store that in a fridge with the mason jar lid loosely place so that it can continue to release CO2. Once all CO2 is released, I seal it up and save until the next batch.

More often though, I save some of the yeast cake after bottling. I keep it in a 1 gallon glass jug with a bit of the beer it fermented until I'm ready to use for another batch. I then decant the beer, bring the yeast up to fermentation temperatures, slosh it around, and pour a liter or two into the next batch.

I usually begin to see active fermentation within a few hours after pitching the reused yeast with either one of these methods. I've done 5 or 6 generations this way without a single problem.

Edit: I should add, this is for my usual recipes which range in OG from 1.048-1.058. If I'm trying something new or with an OG well above 1.060, I will use fresh yeast, starter, or whatever else to be a little more sure of my cell count.