Yeast starter with Dry Yeast during quarantine

[jharmon203]

So I know that people say to just use another packet of dry yeast instead of a starter, but I am trying to limit the time I go outside my house with everything. The articles say using DME to create the starter is not much cheaper than just buying another packet.

I buy DME in 50lb bags. My price per ounce of DME is about 17 cents. I need about 7 ounces of DME to make a 2L starter so this is about 1.19 per yeast starter. You cannot purchase a packet of yeast for that much. I know there is money in the water used and heating, so lets round up to $2. I guess it's just what's your time worth at this point.

Is there any other downsides to creating a yeast starter for dry yeast? I plan to use safale us05

 

[SanPancho]

You should then oxygenate the wort. Pitched directly dry yeast doesn’t need oxygen. It’s fine without.

 

[dmtaylor]

Is there any other downsides to creating a yeast starter for dry yeast? I plan to use safale us05

It's not just a waste of money, but a waste of time and effort in many cases. One pack of US-05 sprinkled on top of the wort with no special treatment contains sufficient viable cells to ferment 10-12 gallons of wort that is about 1.060 or less. Personally I would only use 1/2 a pack for 5 gallons, unless the specific gravity is pretty high then I would use the whole pack.

 

[jharmon203]

I am brewing a beer with an OG of around 1.074. The brewers friend calculator says that I need 2 packets or use a yeast starter for my beer.

 

[dmtaylor]

One pack is plenty, even with no starter, regardless of your instructions. Here is one lengthy reference if you're interested:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27438.0

 

[BruceH]

I am brewing a beer with an OG of around 1.074. The brewers friend calculator says that I need 2 packets or use a yeast starter for my beer.

How large is the batch?

 

[jharmon203]

5 gallons

 

[BruceH]

I'm with everyone else, I'd just pitch it dry. That's how Fermentis suggests to do it. If you build a starter it will just be a small beer to pitch into a larger one. Won't hurt anything but for me it wouldn't be necessary.

 

[smata67]

One packet of any dry or liquid yeast in a 5G batch of 1.074 OG or less is pretty much guaranteed to be fine. At least in terms of pitch rate.

 

[jharmon203]

this is very interesting. I need to read up quite a bit more on this. Everyone seems to be in agreement that one pack would be enough. The brewer's friend calculator seems to not think so.

 

[BruceH]

this is very interesting. I need to read up quite a bit more on this. Everyone seems to be in agreement that one pack would be enough. The brewer's friend calculator seems to not think so.

Fermentis would disagree with the brewing software: https://fermentis.com/en/fermentation-solutions/you-create-beer/safale-us-05/

 

[dmtaylor]

this is very interesting. I need to read up quite a bit more on this. Everyone seems to be in agreement that one pack would be enough. The brewer's friend calculator seems to not think so.

All the incorrect old homebrewing knowledge from 5+ years ago will take another decade to die off. Too many people made too much money on too many books and podcasts, at a time when we as a community still just didn't know any better yet.

 

[Bassman2003]

Two things to spur the conversation along:

1) I have read that dry yeast improves with multiple pitches. Would making a starter help improve the yeast's performance? The reading was about how dry yeast has a coating on it for storage and to speed up the start times. Subsequent pitches do not have this which improves the flavors more to the liquid yeast level. Would a starter move the dry yeast onward one generation?

2) Lag time? Making a starter would decrease lag time. Homebrewers have learned that wort will be turned into beer eventually even if only one live cell was thrown in. I joke, but this really depends on your goals. My use of liquid yeast and some dry over the years has shown that whenever I do not make a starter, the lag time is very often too long for what I want. Many will say "who cares?" Or "it will be fine". Great. This is a hobby, more power to everybody. So it is up to you to decide how you want to approach your hobby.

Dry yeast has a similar reputation as extract in some circles. Some like it, some do not. I would say, do some testing with your setup. Make a batch without a starter then make the same batch with a starter. See what happens and if there is a difference. This is the only way to tell in the end.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

1) I have read that dry yeast improves with multiple pitches.

sources?

Dry yeast has a similar reputation as extract in some circles. Some like it, some do not.

Some like rye in their beer. I don't. If "them in those circles" want to spend hobby time 'hating' dry yeast and extract, well, whatever. Personally, I know how to make beers that I enjoy quickly with DME and dry yeast.

Make a batch without a starter then make the same batch with a starter. See what happens and if there is a difference. This is the only way to tell in the end.

meh. I don't need to do a blind triangle taste test to know if I like (or dislike) a beer.

 

[Bassman2003]

No direct sources, just reading around the web. Nothing super scientific, but this was for conversation, not to be taken with offense.

The message was towards the OP, by all means, do not do anything against your will...

 

[SanPancho]

I think you’re missing the point of the op. The starter was to grow up the cell count instead of using two pouches.

OP was trying to decide if its worth the trouble.


On a sorta related note, if you want short lag times with dry yeast then rehydrate and oxygenate. Takes off way faster.

 

[Bassman2003]

SanPancho, are you speaking to me?

If so, my message was that there might be upsides in better yeast performance (closer to 2nd generation) and maybe shorter lag times. But testing on their system would be best. There message was asking about "any downsides".

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

There's an interesting topic, from back in June 2019, titled

Can we address the dry yeast yeast starter concept again?​

One of the observations (reply #11) was that dry yeast 1) can be expensive in some areas, and 2) ships well in hot weather (when liquid yeast doesn't ship at all). So making a starter with dry yeast can make sense.

There are 149 other replies in that topic, many of them interesting.

 

[Bassman2003]

Your reply on post #149 has the info I was speaking about regarding Gen 1 and beyond with dry yeast. My thoughts are a starter might get beyond the gen 1 attributes (if there are any). This is a great area to test for individually. I do not use dry yeast much but I think we all would if it was viewed as "equal" to the liquid choices. It certainly is better from a shipping perspective. But, when dry costs rise closer to liquid, then the urge to experiment goes down!

The longer I brew, the more I focus on yeast. It is an area I have found that convenience does not yield the best results.

 

[kingwood-kid]

I would make a starter so that you can pitch half and save half. You may be housebound for longer than we all hope, and a starter will likely give you better yeast than harvesting from a high-ABV beer.