Yeast slurry question?

[markley]

So I attempted to make a yeast starter for the first time. First off, I used too small a flask (consider it a lesson learned). I tried to make a 900 mL starter in a 1 L flask. I used just under a 1/2 cup dme. Also, I do not have a stir plate. I just agitated every so often. Anyway, the starter overflowed while i was at work and left a decent ring of white sludge on counter (guessing this to be lost yeast?). I'm guessing i lost ~50mL of total volume. I left the starter go at room temp for 48 hrs, then put in fridge overnight. The pic is after about 12 hrs in the fridge. My first question, do i have enough to pitch? I will be pitching into a 5 gal IPA recipe. There appears to be about 20 mL of slurry (from what I can estimate). Also, I notice that there are some stringy looking floaters. You can't see them in this photo. What you see here is the outside of flask from overflow. Is that normal?

 

[kh54s10]

I can't tell about the floaters that you said we can't see. Stringy sounds like it could be an infection, but???

The amount of yeast on the bottom looks about what I would expect. Though if you have already cold crashed that it still looks cloudy. I would cool it longer to see if any more yeast will drop out.

And start shopping for a larger flask. I have a 2 liter and plan to get a 5 liter one also. You can DIY a stirplate for about $10-$15 depending on what parts you can scrounge for free. I spent $7.40 on mine.

 

[markley]

Yeah..the "stringy" (best i can describe) is very small and I guess more resembles a clump? I'll continue to cold crash and see how it clears up.

 

[IslandLizard]

What yeast is it? Some clump like crazy like egg-drop soup or sour milk, or form rubbery cakes on the bottom, while others stay very loose and dispersed in the bottom section.

Agreed, the cloudiness indicates there's quite a bit of yeast still in the starter beer. Chill longer to have it drop out. Or if you want to brew today, pour off only half of the starter wort, pitching the other half as a thin slurry. You're probably borderline on yeast count, depending on gravity, and how much you lost.

Next time, a drop of Fermcap-S in your starter wort will keep the foaming and krausen down preventing blow outs. I've lost quite a bit of yeast over time to yeast volcanoes until I read about using Fermcap.

 

[markley]

Thanks! It is WL001yeast. And I left in the fridge overnight again and it is still somewhat cloudy, better but still cloudy. Is that okay?

 

[markley]

What yeast is it? Some clump like crazy like egg-drop soup or sour milk, or form rubbery cakes on the bottom, while others stay very loose and dispersed in the bottom section.

Agreed, the cloudiness indicates there's quite a bit of yeast still in the starter beer. Chill longer to have it drop out. Or if you want to brew today, pour off only half of the starter wort, pitching the other half as a thin slurry. You're probably borderline on yeast count, depending on gravity, and how much you lost.

Next time, a drop of Fermcap-S in your starter wort will keep the foaming and krausen down preventing blow outs. I've lost quite a bit of yeast over time to yeast volcanoes until I read about using Fermcap.

When you say borderline on yeast count, I'm guessing that there would still be more yeast count had I not made a starter at all? Even with the small loss? Oh and I'm making an IPA...no idea what the gravity should be?

Also, your reference to 'egg drop soup' is pretty spot on to what I'm seeing.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, that's OK, just decant the top half as I said, leaving about 300-400ml behind. Most of the yeast is in the bottom half and in the cake on the bottom. In a 5 gallon batch you won't be able to taste 300-400ml of starter wort.

Before you decant and pitch, spray Starsan around the top of the flask and lip liberally; you may even want to wipe the outside of the flask's neck with a Starsan drenched cloth first to remove the dried on yeast that's been exposed.

When you decant, tip the flask slowly and with a steady deliberate motion not to rock the yeast back into suspension. Pour it off slowly and watch out not to pour out any slurry. Don't tip it back until you're done. You can't do this twice, so pour it off into a graduated beaker or something that shows you how much has been poured off.
Recap the flask with sanitized foil if you're not ready to pitch yet.

Let the decanted starter come to room or pitching temperature if it isn't yet.
When ready to pitch, swirl the yeast up into suspension, pitch and prevent drippings from the outside of the flask going into your fermentor. I'm sure you understand that good sanitation practices are paramount. It all becomes second nature soon.

Don't forget to aerate/oxygenate.

Enjoy the brewing!

 

[IslandLizard]

When you say borderline on yeast count, I'm guessing that there would still be more yeast count had I not made a starter at all? Even with the small loss? Oh and I'm making an IPA...no idea what the gravity should be?

Also, your reference to 'egg drop soup' is pretty spot on to what I'm seeing.

It will probably be fine if your gravity is something in the 1.060 range or below, and not crazy high.

Yes, you did propagate yeast and have at least doubled the count.
If you're using one of the online yeast calculators, and they're quite conservative, it will tell you that around a 1.5 liter starter is needed if your wort is 1.060, and the vial of WLP is fairly fresh. You only made approximately .8 liter, and lost an unknown amount of krausen in the blow-off.

This is my favorite yeast calculator.

There is a lot of really good info on yeast starters in the stickies in the yeast forum as well as threads here on HBT, as well as other sources. Check them out. It's a wonderful learning experience.

 

[markley]

It will probably be fine if your gravity is something in the 1.060 range or below, and not crazy high.

Yes, you did propagate yeast and have at least doubled the count.
If you're using one of the online yeast calculators, and they're quite conservative, it will tell you that around a 1.5 liter starter is needed if your wort is 1.060, and the vial of WLP is fairly fresh. You only made approximately .8 liter, and lost an unknown amount of krausen in the blow-off.

This is my favorite yeast calculator.

There is a lot of really good info on yeast starters in the stickies in the yeast forum as well as threads here on HBT, as well as other sources. Check them out. It's a wonderful learning experience.

Thanks much for the advice! Much appreciated! Let's say I pitch this starter and it turns out that it was not enough..i should be able to pitch more if it does not reach FG?

 

[IslandLizard]

As long as you aerate your beer really well right after pitching, like shaking or rocking your carboy (on a stiff pillow or cushion) very energetically for 1-3 minutes, possibly again an hour later, the yeast count will grow large enough to ferment that beer out. To be able to shake a carboy like that, put a solid bung in it of course, and replace with an airlock when done.

Pitch your WLP001 at 68-70°F and keep it there until fermentation is pretty much done, this could easily take 1-2 weeks, then allow it to rise to 73-75°F and let it condition out for another week. Use a fermentation chamber, swamp cooler, or some other method to keep the temp as constant as possible at 68-70°F for that time. Keeping the temps constant, and in particular from dropping too low, prevents the yeast from becoming dormant and the fermentation from stalling in the first place. Then there is no need to resuscitate it later, which is really not as easy as pitching more yeast.

After the week conditioning, cold crash at 34-36°F to clear the beer, which also drops most of the yeast down, dry hop (it's an IPA right?) a week before packaging. Drink within 4-6 weeks for optimum hops aroma. Unless you want to save the yeast, which is not a bad idea, there is no reason for racking to secondary just to dry hop. If you do want to save the yeast for your next brews, after cold crashing rack to secondary (with small headspace) or keg, and dry hop. Chances are it's gonna be the best IPA you've made so far.

You didn't mention your brew method, Extract, PM, or AG? When are you brewing this? Want to post the recipe?

If you're in doubt about having enough yeast, and you still have 2 or 3 days before you brew, decant the starter all the way, and grow a second step. Use a drop of Fermcap-S when making the starter wort to prevent it from blowing out the small flask. Or better yet, use a gallon glass jug ($5) instead or get a 2 or 5 liter flask ($$$).

 

[markley]

Thanks again for all your help!! I think I may decant and make a second starter..just have to find a larger glass jar.

By the way, it is an extract..and just realized that it does not mention dry hopping?? Hop schedule is as follows, 1oz centennial pellet hops at 10 minutes, 1 oz chinook at 25 min, and 1 oz golding at end of boil.

 

[IslandLizard]

That's a strange recipe. Most boils are 60 to 90 minutes (not 25') to get your bittering from the 60' (90') hops addition. Then it varies, there can be a half way addition at 30' for more bittering/flavor, and/or 10' / 5' / 0' for flavor/aroma.

Many "simple" IPA methods only do hop additions at 90'-60' (or FWH) for bittering, 30' and 0'. The 0' addition is usually a hopstand or whirlpool for 30' or longer while the wort is being chilled and kept at certain temps for a while, steeping the hops, releasing lots of flavor and aroma but not creating much bittering. Then 3-7 days before packaging (keg or bottles) a good dry hop for that fresh, in your face aroma punch. I don't think it's an (American) IPA without that.

Generally, IPAs are dry hopped, regular Pale Ales sometimes.

 

[markley]

Sorry..should have clarified. The "end of boil" in the recipe is 60 minutes. But there is no mention of dry hopping.

 

[IslandLizard]

If there are no 60' hops, what and why are you boiling for 60 minutes then? Just the extract?

If it's only the extract, that's not very useful. Only boil 1/3 of the extract with hops and add the remainder at flame-out or at 5' left. Stir well of course to dissolve it all, and with the burner off to prevent scorching.

Where did you get that recipe? Any steeping grains?

 

[markley]

Got the recipe from a local store. There is a hop addition at 60'...and yes there are steeping grains as well.