Yeast Bay--offering some Brett blends

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My oud bruin soured in 4 months dropped down to 3.4 ph. This was with the yeast bays melange blend.
 
I havnt sampled my melange, but the farmhouse sour is delicous! Juicy lactic tartness. Cannot wait to have it in a bottle
 
Sampled my Farmhouse Melange sour last night and it's really quite nice. Something "peachy" about it. At this point it is still a little mild, but really pleasant. About a month ago I transferred 2.5 gallons of a farmhouse ale directly onto the cake of a previously fermented sour with Melange. Its sitting at 1.005 and I'm tempted to just bottle it up as is and let it funk up more in the bottle. I'm guessing it will drop another point or two, so it could just carb up naturally in the bottle. If after 4 months there isn't enough carbonation then I can always open each bottle and add tablet of NB's Prime Dose.
 
geoffey said:
Sampled my Farmhouse Melange sour last night and it's really quite nice. Something "peachy" about it. At this point it is still a little mild, but really pleasant. About a month ago I transferred 2.5 gallons of a farmhouse ale directly onto the cake of a previously fermented sour with Melange. Its sitting at 1.005 and I'm tempted to just bottle it up as is and let it funk up more in the bottle. I'm guessing it will drop another point or two, so it could just carb up naturally in the bottle. If after 4 months there isn't enough carbonation then I can always open each bottle and add tablet of NB's Prime Dose.
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1.005 is pretty low, but I'd maybe hold off bottling for ~2-3 weeks to see if the gravity is still changing. If you still see no gravity change, I'd go ahead and prime and bottle to ensure you get some carbonation, unless of course you want more of a still sour beer with very low carbonation.
 
I have two vials of Melange and plan on doing a red (OG1.057) with one and a Bruin(OG 1.065) with the other. Do you guys reccomend doing a starter for these? Or just keep it warm like TYB says for the first 24hrs?

Cheers!
 
GrowlerMonkey said:
I have two vials of Melange and plan on doing a red (OG1.057) with one and a Bruin(OG 1.065) with the other. Do you guys reccomend doing a starter for these? Or just keep it warm like TYB says for the first 24hrs?

Cheers!
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We actually recommend keeping it a little cooler and semiaerobic to prevent the LAB from becoming too active and lowering the pH too quickly in the starter, which can have a negative effect on Saccharomyces cerevisiae growth kinetics.
 
Sorry, I might not of been clear on in my question. I'm looking at either doing a starter (not at an elevated temp) or just pitching one vial into each 5 gallon batch around 70 as stated on the vial. I'd rather just pitch the vial into primary if the cell count is suffiecient. These vials are only about 3 weeks old.
 
GrowlerMonkey said:
Sorry, I might not of been clear on in my question. I'm looking at either doing a starter (not at an elevated temp) or just pitching one vial into each 5 gallon batch around 70 as stated on the vial. I'd rather just pitch the vial into primary if the cell count is suffiecient. These vials are only about 3 weeks old.
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I made a starter for my melange blend that I'm pitching into a Flanders Red tomorrow.
 
GrowlerMonkey said:
Sorry, I might not of been clear on in my question. I'm looking at either doing a starter (not at an elevated temp) or just pitching one vial into each 5 gallon batch around 70 as stated on the vial. I'd rather just pitch the vial into primary if the cell count is suffiecient. These vials are only about 3 weeks old.
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Ah! Right on. I personally always do a starter, if not to create a lot more new cells, to just get the yeast active. Even if only in 500 mL, you won't make a lot of cells but you will get the yeast active.
 
So I pitched the Melange starter on Saturday afternoon and have yet to see any airlock activity. The wort is sitting in my fermentation chamber at 60 degrees. Their website says that the blend contains two sach strains, but maybe it just takes a while for this to get going?

I'm thinking of letting it go for another day or two and pitching some s-05 if nothing changes.
 
youreanimpulse said:
That blend has a recommended temp of 68-78. I'd warm it up.
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I agree. Not sure how active the Saccharomyces strains will be at 60 F. That's quite a bit lower than we have ever used them. Not sure the Brettanomyces strains or the LAB will be that active either that low. Definitely warm it to the upper 60's. Also, the cell count is a little lower in this blend (29 billion cells/vial), so in ahe absence of a starter, it will take a little longer to get going.
 
Biobrewer said:
I agree. Not sure how active the Saccharomyces strains will be at 60 F. That's quite a bit lower than we have ever used them. Not sure the Brettanomyces strains or the LAB will be that active either that low. Definitely warm it to the upper 60's. Also, the cell count is a little lower in this blend (29 billion cells/vial), so in ahe absence of a starter, it will take a little longer to get going.
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Just realized I accidentally wrote 60 instead of 68. I raised the temp to 69 last night, but there was already a krausen forming and some airlock activity. Looks like I'll be ok.
 
i've got the saison/brett blend going in an optic/wheat/golden naked oats/acidulated beer (33 IBU, 1.057 before the late-added pound of sugar, if i remember correctly). i got the yeast second-hand from a fellow brewer. although i'm unsure of pitch size, the beer had a visible krausen the next morning and was ripping at 24 hours so enough cells were pitched. started off at 68, got to 74 on day two, and spent the rest of active fermentation at 78-80 which was a little warmer than i intended.

nick - any experience with the saison blend at the upper, or slightly above, its suggested range? most of the cell growth happened in the suggested range, so i have that going for me, which is nice.
 
sweetcell said:
i've got the saison/brett blend going in an optic/wheat/golden naked oats/acidulated beer (33 IBU, 1.057 before the late-added pound of sugar, if i remember correctly). i got the yeast second-hand from a fellow brewer. although i'm unsure of pitch size, the beer had a visible krausen the next morning and was ripping at 24 hours so enough cells were pitched. started off at 68, got to 74 on day two, and spent the rest of active fermentation at 78-80 which was a little warmer than i intended.

nick - any experience with the saison blend at the upper, or slightly above, its suggested range? most of the cell growth happened in the suggested range, so i have that going for me, which is nice.
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People have pushed our Saison Blend and Wallonian Farmhouse into the upper 80's and reported good results, but I am always skeptical at that high of a temperature. Not sure how predictable the flavor profile production is at temperatures that high.
 
I havent seen a reason to push the Wallonian over 76F so far, Ive been getting dry beers with complex yeast character in the low to mid 70s. I recently fermented out a 1.045 Saison to 1.002 with a 68F ferment throughout. Its very light, and subtle but super refreshing.
 
sweetcell said:
i've got the saison/brett blend going in an optic/wheat/golden naked oats/acidulated beer (33 IBU, 1.057 before the late-added pound of sugar, if i remember correctly). i got the yeast second-hand from a fellow brewer. although i'm unsure of pitch size, the beer had a visible krausen the next morning and was ripping at 24 hours so enough cells were pitched. started off at 68, got to 74 on day two, and spent the rest of active fermentation at 78-80 which was a little warmer than i intended.

nick - any experience with the saison blend at the upper, or slightly above, its suggested range? most of the cell growth happened in the suggested range, so i have that going for me, which is nice.
Click to expand...
after 16 days in the fermenter, i took a gravity reading last night: 1.008. i was expecting it to be a bit lower. the GNO is a type of crystal, 6% of grist, so that might have added something to the FG. beer is looking clear so fermentation looks complete, but i'm a tad nervous about bottling a brett beer at 1.008. maybe i cooled it too soon, and i should warm it up again?

what kind of FG's are people getting with the saison/brett blend? so far i've seen 1.038 --> 1.004. anyone else? nick?

edit: came across a few more OG/FG combos here. if i estimate my beer's OG to be 1.064 (1.057 + 7 points from the pound of sugar), an FG of 1.008 gives me an apparent attenuation of 87.5% - so i'm in the ballpark. with the GNOs, that might be as good as it gets.
 
sweetcell said:
after 16 days in the fermenter, i took a gravity reading last night: 1.008. i was expecting it to be a bit lower. the GNO is a type of crystal, 6% of grist, so that might have added something to the FG. beer is looking clear so fermentation looks complete, but i'm a tad nervous about bottling a brett beer at 1.008. maybe i cooled it too soon, and i should warm it up again?

what kind of FG's are people getting with the saison/brett blend? so far i've seen 1.038 --> 1.004. anyone else? nick?

edit: came across a few more OG/FG combos here. if i estimate my beer's OG to be 1.064 (1.057 + 7 points from the pound of sugar), an FG of 1.008 gives me an apparent attenuation of 87.5% - so i'm in the ballpark. with the GNOs, that might be as good as it gets.
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Sweetcell, you know this better than me, Brett is a slow attenuator, it may be several months before it's totally done. The residual gravity you're measuring right now is most likely food for Brett. Also your sugar addition inflates the attenuation a bit. I'd be surprised if it doesn't go down at least 4-6 points over time.
 
IslandLizard said:
Sweetcell, you know this better than me, Brett is a slow attenuator, it may be several months before it's totally done. The residual gravity you're measuring right now is most likely food for Brett. Also your sugar addition inflates the attenuation a bit. I'd be surprised if it doesn't go down at least 4-6 points over time.
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normally i would be in complete agreement with you. but different strains behave in different ways, and the brett in TYB's saison brett blend were chosen for how well they perform as primary strains. i've read about several folks packaging this beer well before the traditional 3+ months that one typically waits with a brett'ed beer... hence my inquiry about other folks' experiences.

the other thing that has me wondering about the done-ness of this beer is the fact that it has dropped clear. every long-aged brett beer that i've done in the past has remained relatively murky for some time, i.e. the brett has remained in suspension.
 
paging Nick BioBrewer:

have you noticed that the Saison Brett Blend continues to attenuate after primary? as i wrote here, my 5-week old 1.064 beer has stopped at 1.008 and has dropped clear. i'm not seeing any signs of activity in the primary carboy. i'm wondering if the brett will continue to chew, and hence i should rack to secondary?
 
sweetcell said:
paging Nick BioBrewer:

have you noticed that the Saison Brett Blend continues to attenuate after primary? as i wrote here, my 5-week old 1.064 beer has stopped at 1.008 and has dropped clear. i'm not seeing any signs of activity in the primary carboy. i'm wondering if the brett will continue to chew, and hence i should rack to secondary?
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The final attenuation of a beer is very dependent on the wort production parameters. I always tell people with brett/bacteria present to simply wait for 2-3 consecutive stable readings (at fermentation temperature) separated by ~1.5-2 weeks each. If the gravity doesn't budge a single point within a month to month and a half at fermentation temperature, I'd say you're probably good to go. Regardless of if/when you rack, you're going to take Brett with it (poor flocculator) and it will continue to do it's thing and produce flavor compounds.
 
I've gotten a number of messages regarding when we were restocking a some of our sour/funky products, including our Melange Blend. Just wanted to give a heads up that new stock of everything was just added for those who have been patiently waiting. Sorry again for the delay!
 
Biobrewer said:
I've gotten a number of messages regarding when we were restocking a some of our sour/funky products, including our Melange Blend. Just wanted to give a heads up that new stock of everything was just added for those who have been patiently waiting. Sorry again for the delay!
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Sweet! Just picked up Melange and Lochristi! Time to get to brewing!
 
Melange is really something I'm trying to keep in stock. Takes a little longer for White Labs to make it due to having to free up so many cultures, but I think I finally got the order frequency nailed down!
 
Rolling with some Melange in an extract lambic similar to Oldsock's recipe. How long does it usually take for krausen to hit? About 24hrs in and not much going on yet. Its sitting in a fermentation bag around 65*.
 
MeanDeuce said:
Rolling with some Melange in an extract lambic similar to Oldsock's recipe. How long does it usually take for krausen to hit? About 24hrs in and not much going on yet. Its sitting in a fermentation bag around 65*.
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65 F is a little on the low end for almost all of the yeast and bacteria in the blend. I'd definitely suspect it would take longer to get going at any temp below 68-70 F. Bump it up if you can and you'll see activity and gravity changwon short order. Cheers!
 
Thanks, I checked again a little later last night and the start of a nice pillowy krausen had formed, by this morning it was full bore. Had a tiny amount of blowoff through the airlock so I think we're in business.
 
i've bottled my saison with lochristi, which was in secondary for a little over a year.

the beer has an off-flavor that i'm pretty sure is THP, AKA "that cheerio flavor" or "mouse taint". i bottled conditioned without adding any new yeast so the brett was likely in bad shape and spit out the THP. it's been something like 2 or 3 months since bottling and it's starting to get better. i had one last night and it was almost drinkable, but still too strong to fully appreciate the underlying beer.

TL;DR: my lochristi saison is dealing with bottle shock because i didn't re-yeast at bottling. needs more time.
 
Nick here from The Yeast Bay, Thought I'd toss in the fact we actually just released some new cultures, including a number of single strain Brettanomyces bruxellensis isolates. Literally just fired out our news letter about it! All of the beta cultures below just became year round cultures propped at White Labs, so availability on the website will be consistent and commercial breweries and homebrew stores can order as much as they need.

Cliff notes:

Brettanomyces bruxellensis – Strain TYB 184 - This isolate is attenuative, produces a moderate acidic-like character and an ester profile of lemon/pineapple. Another notable characteristic of this isolate is the mild barnyard character it produces that doesn't take over the profile; rather, it balances the ester profile. The unique character balance in this strain is what makes it well suited for use on its own, in both primary and secondary fermentation.

Brettanomyces bruxellensis – Strain TYB 207 - This isolate exhibits good attenuation, and produces a moderate acidic-like character and an ester profile the combination of which produces a character reminiscent of sweet tarts. It's a fruity, funky tartness that's refreshing and crisp. This strain is well-suited for primary and secondary fermentation.

Saison/Brettanomyces Blend II – The cultures in this new and unique blend include two saison-style Saccharomyces cerevisiae isolates (Wallonian Farmhouse II and Wallonian Farmhouse III) and two Brettanomyces bruxellensis cultures (TYB184, TYB207). This blend will produce a beer that is bursting with classic saison character with a rustic kick of Brettanomyces fruitiness and funkiness. While exhibiting a mild hay/barnyard component, the overall character is heavier on the fruit-forward end of the spectrum compared to our original Saison/Brettanomyces Blend.

Wallonian Farmhouse II – This is a single strain of Saccharomyces cerevisiae isolated from the same source as our Wallonian Farmhouse strain, a well-known brewery hailing from the Walloon region of Belgium. Slightly less attenuative and exhibiting a more restrained phenolic and expressive ester profile than our original Wallonian Farmhouse, this yeast is a great choice for any classic saison style beer in which a balance of fruitiness and rustic farmhouse character is desired.

Wallonian Farmhouse III – This is a single strain of Saccharomyces cerevisiae isolated from a well-known brewery hailing from the Walloon region of Belgium that's the producer of one of the most beloved and classic Saisons. This strain is as attenuative as our original Wallonian Farmhouse and exhibits a more balanced profile of ester and phenols. This yeast is similar in profile to a classic saison strain offered by many other yeast manufacturers, without the slow/low attenuation and stalling issues often observed in those cultures.

Flanders Specialty Ale – This is a single strain of Saccharomyces cerevisiae isolated from a fascinating Belgian producer of a wide array of traditional Belgian beer styles. This is a versatile yeast that will ferment fairly dry and produce a balanced flavor and aroma profile laced with a myriad of esters and phenols. While fermenting to dryness similar to our Dry Belgian Ale, there remains a pleasant fullness in the mouthfeel and a malt backbone that shines.

We also have an exciting new Beta Brettanomyces culture coming out soon (Brettanomyces Single Strain Series – Isolate TYB242). The origin of this strain is a brewer of all things funky in the beautiful state of Colorado. The species identification of the culture is not yet known, but the flavor profile is large and in charge – intense stone fruit and citrus with a lovely complement of barnyard characters lurking in the background. Expecting to release this within the month of March sometime, so keep your eyes peeled.
 
sweetcell said:
i've bottled my saison with lochristi, which was in secondary for a little over a year.

the beer has an off-flavor that i'm pretty sure is THP, AKA "that cheerio flavor" or "mouse taint". i bottled conditioned without adding any new yeast so the brett was likely in bad shape and spit out the THP. it's been something like 2 or 3 months since bottling and it's starting to get better. i had one last night and it was almost drinkable, but still too strong to fully appreciate the underlying beer.

TL;DR: my lochristi saison is dealing with bottle shock because i didn't re-yeast at bottling. needs more time.
Click to expand...
update: THP took several months to go away, but go away it did.

what lays underneath is really nice. i definitely get a pear ester.

apparently i'm not the only one who likes it: the beer took first place in category 28 of my NHC regional... i'm going to nationals, baby :ban:
 
MeanDeuce said:
Rolling with some Melange in an extract lambic similar to Oldsock's recipe. How long does it usually take for krausen to hit? About 24hrs in and not much going on yet. Its sitting in a fermentation bag around 65*.
Click to expand...

MeanDeuce said:
Thanks, I checked again a little later last night and the start of a nice pillowy krausen had formed, by this morning it was full bore. Had a tiny amount of blowoff through the airlock so I think we're in business.
Click to expand...

Going to finally move this onto some sour cherries and another batch of peaches and apricots next weekend. I've never gotten a traditional pellicile, just some thick yeast rafts. That's with addition of some Cantillon dregs. Am very curious to see what it tastes like after all this time.
 
sweetcell said:
update: THP took several months to go away, but go away it did.

what lays underneath is really nice. i definitely get a pear ester.

apparently i'm not the only one who likes it: the beer took first place in category 28 of my NHC regional... i'm going to nationals, baby :ban:
Click to expand...

Shoot me an email with the recipe in the same format as the ones on the winner's circle page and I'll get you up on the site.

http://www.theyeastbay.com/winners-circle/

Congrats, by the way!
 

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