Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[drives_a_bike]

Was shooting for a tank 7 like saison, just not as strong. I was hoping for around 6.5 to 6.8, but noooooo, not with this yeast! It's a monster!! Fermented from 1.060 to 1.000. Now I have a 7.9% saison...oh well, it's not like i won't drink it all...maybe just not as fast.

 

[theQ]

One of my favorite yeast. Makes strong and flavorful beers. I love it.

 

[Coff]

I just ordered NB's Petite Saison De'Ete kit with the 3711 yeast. Being low flocculation,would Whirlfloc do the job with it? I liked the single tabs I got in the two Morebeer kits that I also ordered a bottle of them. I know they're for proteins & such. But they work so well I figured it can't hurt to try.

Dont worry about a Saison clearing up. It should have a little haze to it.

 

[signpost]

I brewed up a giant (OG 1.091) Saison about a week ago and just pitched a single smack pack of 3711. It was only a 4 gallon batch, but yeah I know that is still underpitching.

The airlock was still active within a few hours and it's been bubbling steadily. It has slowed down a bit now (about 9 days in). From what I've read, it looks like my temps have been just fine for it at around 68°F or so. I'm just wondering if under-pitching as much as I did will effect it too much. It was somewhat on purpose, because I generally like to under-pitch Belgian and other yeast-dominated styles. But I've never used this yeast before, so I don't know if this will need some extra time to clean up or if it should be good to go once it is fully attenuated.

 

[drives_a_bike]

I washed the yeast from my saison I currently have on tap. Some friends of mine are getting married soon and another friend of ours and I are brewing up a couple beers for their reception. He's doing a wheat beer and I'm doing a ginger saison.

So, I brewed mine today...pitched the yeast starter at 3pm, and this beast is bubbling away already and it's only 8. I'm starting to wonder why I even used the yeast nutrient with this yeast. It fermented my last 1.060 saison down to 1.000 with no nutrient...

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I love 3711. Recently did a Belgian holiday ale with orange peel and coriander and decided to use the 3711 because I wanted the spice profile. It took it from 1.078 to 1.008 in a week and then continued to ever so slowly drop even more. Ended up at 1.004 after 3 weeks - 9.7% ABV! I started at 66F for 2 days then ramped up to 76F over 4 days then back to 66F after 8 days. No fusels, just a nice smooth warmth. And that is after only a month in the bottle. This should be very smooth by the holidays.

 

[lefort3]

3711 is one of my favorites. I decided to torture myself by splitting a 10 gallon batch: one pitched with 3711 and the other with 3724. I think I have atleast 3 weeks for the latter to finish while the former hit 1.01 in 4 days.


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[sweetcell]

3711 is one of my favorites. I decided to torture myself by splitting a 10 gallon batch: one pitched with 3711 and the other with 3724. I think I have atleast 3 weeks for the latter to finish while the former hit 1.01 in 4 days.

my standard approach to saisons these days is to start with 3724, give it ~two weeks with heat ramping, them finish it off with 3711. you have a 3711 cake ready to go. once your 3711 batch is done, rack the 3724 batch on top of it. boom.

 

[lefort3]

Thx. I like that idea. I don't do a secondary. I keg after about 3-4 weeks in the primary. I'm thinking I can get some from the bottom and transfer it. Both are at 8 days. The 3724 is doing its job, but so slowly impatience may finally get the best of me. Especially with your idea. I can also do a small starter which was my plan if this isn't getting closer when I check again this week.



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[tgmartin000]

I'm wondering what temps are ok with this yeast? Every time I've used it in the high 60s, and it comes out too clean. Will higher temps accentuate the phenols and a spiciness?

 

[lefort3]

I fermented in the low 70's and this finished with a nice spicey flavor.

This last one that stalled with the 3724 is at 6.8% today. I added from the 3711 two weeks ago. Initially it ramped up, slowed, and is still bubbling every 20 sec or so. Nice spice and a champagne tingle on the tongue. Also spicier than its sister fermentented solely with the 3711. Kegging in two weeks.


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[tagz]

I'm wondering what temps are ok with this yeast? Every time I've used it in the high 60s, and it comes out too clean. Will higher temps accentuate the phenols and a spiciness?

I was disappointed the first time I used 3711. I ran it in the mid 60s. Now I start at 68-70 and ramp to 74-76. Big difference. Although be aware that 3711 is a mix of fruity and spice. 3724 is the spicier of the two.

 

[unionrdr]

My saison started life at OG 1.044 on 5/26. By 6/8 it was down to .996! Still quite misty with a straw yellow color. Flavor of hydrometer sample was rather clean with a bit of maltiness. A bit of spicy ester on the back. I've been giving it time to clear up a bit more. May just bottle it anyway,since some say it's a bit misty anyhow?

 

[SteveWPG]

I just used this yeast for the first time and had an interesting experience. It didn't start super fast but bubbled along for 6 weeks, bringing my 1.084 quad down to 1.006. It fermented at about the same pace the entire time. I tasted a sample when it was almost done (1.008 maybe) and it still tasted weirdly sweet. As soon as it hit final gravity it stopped tasting sweet. I fermented it at around 66 F and it still has lots of nice fruity/spicy character, probably due to the high OG. I would definitely use it again. If I was making a smaller beer and still wanted a lot of spiciness and fruitiness then I might let it ferment warmer.

 

[fefe]

Another 2 5Gl beer batches (*) brewed recently with 3711. Averaging at 90% attenuation with no added sugar/honey. I effectively use it as my house strain, at low (65F) temperature it has a pretty clean profile and I love how it dries up my APA/IPA (I also pitch very large amounts as I recycle the yeast from previous beers); at higher temp it gives nice crisp spicy refreshing saisons.

OG FG ABV ATT Note
1.051 1.008 5.70% 84% Extract
1.089 1.011 10.20% 88% Partial Mash
1.06 1.007 6.90% 88% Partial Mash
1.06 1.007 6.90% 88% All Grain
1.057 1.005 6.80% 91% Extract(*)
1.06 1.004 7.30% 93% All Grain
1.06 1.004 7.30% 93% Extract(*)
1.048 1.003 5.90% 94% Extract + Sugar
1.112 1.004 14% 97% Half Honey Half extract

 

[tagz]

Another 2 5Gl beer batches (*) brewed recently with 3711. Averaging at 90% attenuation with no added sugar/honey. I effectively use it as my house strain, at low (65F) temperature it has a pretty clean profile and I love how it dries up my APA/IPA (I also pitch very large amounts as I recycle the yeast from previous beers); at higher temp it gives nice crisp spicy refreshing saisons.

I was thinking about using 3711 for an IPA recently. The first time I used it I ran it in the mid 60s and I remember it tasting pretty clean. With a big pitch and low 60s, do you think you could spot it behind a bunch if hops? It would reduce the number of strains I need to maintain that's for sure.

 

[fefe]

If you are going to keg and effectively let it rest for 2 months very cold and manage to get all the yeast away from the rest of the beer it will be very subtle and most won't detect it. If you bottle or drink fairly young where you'll end up with a bit more yeast mixed up, it will definitely be present in the flavor profile, even with a large amount of hops someone will ask you about your Belgian IPA.

So if you manage to flocculate the yeast well (kegging/lagering for a while) you can effectively make the "Belgian" yeast flavor profile almost completely disappear. This is what I've been doing, but you need to be patient (it takes really 2 months in the cold for it to clear up fully).

You will likely still recognize the dryness, as very few yeasts manage to go through that much of the sugar bill but none of the saison funkiness.

 

[Rambleon]

Another 2 5Gl beer batches (*) brewed recently with 3711. Averaging at 90% attenuation with no added sugar/honey. I effectively use it as my house strain, at low (65F) temperature it has a pretty clean profile and I love how it dries up my APA/IPA (I also pitch very large amounts as I recycle the yeast from previous beers); at higher temp it gives nice crisp spicy refreshing saisons.

OG FG ABV ATT Note
1.051 1.008 5.70% 84% Extract
1.089 1.011 10.20% 88% Partial Mash
1.06 1.007 6.90% 88% Partial Mash
1.06 1.007 6.90% 88% All Grain
1.057 1.005 6.80% 91% Extract(*)
1.06 1.004 7.30% 93% All Grain
1.06 1.004 7.30% 93% Extract(*)
1.048 1.003 5.90% 94% Extract + Sugar
1.142 1.004 13.40% 97% Half Honey Half extract

Wait, 1.142 - 1.004? That's almost 20% ABV!


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[DrWill]

Wait, 1.142 - 1.004? That's almost 20% ABV!


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Yeah, I'm getting 18.1%. 1.142-1.040 yields the correct numbers.




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[fefe]

I double checked my notes, I don't know how it ended here with 1.142 it was OG was 1.112 and FG was 1.004, so ~14% and not 18%

 

[SimonHucko]

Just brewed a rye saison with 3711, started fermentation at 72F and ramped to ~75F after a week, kegged to 3vol CO2 after 3 weeks in primary. OG was 1.058, FG 0.999 (!). Super dry with a bit of clove and banana. Some spice evident, not sure how much is from the yeast and how much came from the rye. Awesome summer drinker, although a bit sneaky with the high ABV (doesn't taste it). If I were to use it again I'd plan on the super attenuation and start at a lower OG for a more sessionable beer, but I'm really happy with the results. Looking forward to sharing this one at the brewpub where I work

 

[ChshreCat]

. Awesome summer drinker, although a bit sneaky with the high ABV (doesn't taste it).

That's why I named my brew I make with this Saison Furtif. It sneaks up on ya and knocks ya over.

 

[ddrrseio]

has anyone used this a few times and experimented with pitch rate or temperature? i see a lot of info on what temperature was chosen, but not a lot of follow-up except to say that it was well-liked.

i'm really interested in what flavors are encouraged by different temps, pitch rates, o2, etc with this yeast. i am not brewing with it till next sunday so i have some time to plan.

 

[signpost]

I just bottled up a batch fermented with this yeast. It was a high gravity batch with a 1.092 OG. This beast of an attenuator took it down to an 0.998 FG.

By my calculations that brings it to a 12.3% ABV!!!

I was planning for around 10 to 10.5% ABV, so this is quite a surprise. By far the highest alcohol beer I've ever brewed.

 

[elkshadow]

Just wanted to pop in to this thread to say I have a Belgian Quad finishing up that went from 1.100 to 1.004 in six weeks and still hasn't flocced.

Using the standard equation that is 12.6% ABV. Using the alternate equation that is 13.68%ABV.

I know what I'll be doing on Christmas of 2015!!!

 

[drives_a_bike]

How long is this yeast active? Every other time I've used it, I go out of town for a few days or weeks immediately after brewing and leave my trusty wife to keep an eye it.
I just brewed a rye saison with it on Saturday and the krausen dropped down to nothing yesterday...seemed kind of fast. I haven't checked gravity readings yet, and I'm headed to work for a couple days right now, so I suppose I'll check when I get back.

4 days just seems fast...it's sitting in my hall closet now. Started at 68-70 for a temp and after 2 days wrapped it in a blanket and brought it up to 75-76. I know this yeast can go high in temp, my first saison I brought it up to 85+ and it powered through.

Thoughts?

 

[sweetcell]

4 days just seems fast...it's sitting in my hall closet now. Started at 68-70 for a temp and after 2 days wrapped it in a blanket and brought it up to 75-76.

4 days could be quite reasonable if you pitched a proper amount, gravity wasn't too high, nutrients were all there, etc. just because the krausen has fallen doesn't mean that fermentation is complete. i would give it a few more days, then start taking gravity readings. belgian yeasts can take a while to chew threw those last few points.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

In the words of BTO, "Let it ride". This stuff will keep churning. Last time I used it, it went from 1080 OG to 1008 in 6 days. It then slowly dropped to 1004 over the next 3 weeks. Normally, I wait for 3 days of steady readings to consider it done. With 3711, I wait for a week of no change.

 

[tagz]

I'm usually at 1.004 within 5 days. It could be done. If your bottling you might give it a little more time.

 

[Bensiff]

I had the saison Dupont strain crap out on me and can't get it going. My experience with 3711 is that it is a beast, any thoughts on whether it will be able to get things finished up. Started at 1.065 or so and stalled at 1.040, so it is only around 3%. If not, I suppose it is 10 gallons of future "lambic."

 

[sweetcell]

I had the saison Dupont strain crap out on me and can't get it going. My experience with 3711 is that it is a beast, any thoughts on whether it will be able to get things finished up. Started at 1.065 or so and stalled at 1.040, so it is only around 3%. If not, I suppose it is 10 gallons of future "lambic."

dupont followed up by 3711 is my standard approach to making a saison. works wonderfully. i really prefer the flavor contributions of dupont, but i'm not patient enough to wait it out so i use 3711 to dry the beer out after dupont gives up.

make a starter with the 3711 and pitch it at its most active point (high krausen). "cold pitching" an un-started yeast into a partially fermented beer can be hard on that yeast.

 

[drives_a_bike]

4 days could be quite reasonable if you pitched a proper amount, gravity wasn't too high, nutrients were all there, etc. just because the krausen has fallen doesn't mean that fermentation is complete. i would give it a few more days, then start taking gravity readings. belgian yeasts can take a while to chew threw those last few points.

I'll give it another day and check some readings.

Plenty of yeast was pitched, used wyeast nutrient, and the og was only 1.062

 

[jfr1111]

I first tasted my saison brewed with this yeast. The grist was very simple: 80% pils, 10% sugar and 10% wheat, and enough bittering hops for about 18 IBUS.

I fermented the beer in the high 70's to low 80's and it stopped at 1.002 for a SG of roughly 1.050 if I remember right. The nose is softly malty with some spicyness and funk. The taste is more of the same, but it is more citric and fruity, with a faint tartness. It finishes sweet and the mouthfeel is surprisingly full for such a low gravity and simple grain bill. It feels like a "normal" 1.010 to 1.012 beer.

I would have prefered a crisper, drier finish, but I think upping the IBU a bit, fermenting it cooler, upping the carbonation and having a lower starting gravity might do the trick. There's a good bit of sweetness that could be attributed to the alcohol.

 

[drives_a_bike]

4 days could be quite reasonable if you pitched a proper amount, gravity wasn't too high, nutrients were all there, etc. just because the krausen has fallen doesn't mean that fermentation is complete. i would give it a few more days, then start taking gravity readings. belgian yeasts can take a while to chew threw those last few points.

There is a reason people post RDWAHAHB. Just took a gravity reading and it went from 1.062 to 1.006. 7.3% yeah I'll take that.

We've been obsessed with saison in our house lately...I'm drinking Saison DuPont right now. So excited for this rye saison!!

 

[sweetcell]

There is a reason people post RDWAHAHB. Just took a gravity reading and it went from 1.062 to 1.006. 7.3% yeah I'll take that.

We've been obsessed with saison in our house lately...I'm drinking Saison DuPont right now. So excited for this rye saison!!

congrats!

1.006 is on the higher end for 3711. it might be done, or it might chew through a few more points. i'd give it a little more time to be sure that it's completely finished fermenting.

 

[drives_a_bike]

congrats!

1.006 is on the higher end for 3711. it might be done, or it might chew through a few more points. i'd give it a little more time to be sure that it's completely finished fermenting.

Yeah, every saison I've made now I leave in the primary for 3 weeks...it's only been 11 days. I'll check back again at the 3 week mark.

I took the dregs of our 2 bottles of saison DuPont last night and made a small yeast starter. I'm gonna keep stepping it up over the next few weeks and see if I can make a saison with that yeast!

 

[elkshadow]

Yeah, every saison I've made now I leave in the primary for 3 weeks...it's only been 11 days. I'll check back again at the 3 week mark.

I took the dregs of our 2 bottles of saison DuPont last night and made a small yeast starter. I'm gonna keep stepping it up over the next few weeks and see if I can make a saison with that yeast!

White Labs 565 is the Saison Dupont yeast.

 

[davejanssen]

White Labs 565 is the Saison Dupont yeast.

Yeah, WLP 565 and Wyeast 3724 are derived from Dupont, but there is some info out there about the actual Dupont culture being composed of multiple yeasts, so culturing from the bottle may give something different.

Farmhouse Ales by Markowski talks about Dupont's yeast possibly being a mixed culture. The book says a brewmaster at Dupont believes the yeast is composed of at least 4 yeasts and Chris White at White labs says they've seen more than one strain in Dupont beer.

 

[elkshadow]

Yeah, WLP 565 and Wyeast 3724 are derived from Dupont, but there is some info out there about the actual Dupont culture being composed of multiple yeasts, so culturing from the bottle may give something different.

Farmhouse Ales by Markowski talks about Dupont's yeast possibly being a mixed culture. The book says a brewmaster at Dupont believes the yeast is composed of at least 4 yeasts and Chris White at White labs says they've seen more than one strain in Dupont beer.

Good to know. I wonder if anyone has ever made side-by-side using bottle culture compared to WL565.

 

[drives_a_bike]

I was unaware about 565. Still, I've never cultivated from a bottle, and figured this was a good experiment