Would you kindly teach me about water chemistry?

[Travis K. Jansen]

Hey friends, I am at a point where I'd like to learn more about how my water affects my beer. Up until my last batch, I had always purchased pre-packaged gallons of spring water. The Zombie Dust I just made I used my own water, so I'm curious to see if it has any affect. I've gathered my water values from my city and here's what they said:

Calcium: 84
Magnesium: 39
Sulfates: No test results
Sodium: 41
Chloride: 81
Alkalinity: 297

I have John Palmer's book, but it's a bit overwhelming so I thought I'd start here as the lot of you haven't failed me yet with priming the pump so to speak before I go on to research more on my own.

Can you all talk a bit about how my numbers affect my brew?

 

[RPh_Guy]

You do need to know your sulfate level if you want to get into making water adjustments.

Mash pH has similar effect as mash temp (e.g. fermentability).

Sulfate to chloride ratio affects dryness/bitterness vs sweetness/fullness.

Good resource:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

Basic guidelines:
1. Remove chlorine/chloramine.
2. Acidify sparge water.
3. Target mash pH to style.
4. Target sulfate:chloride ratio to style.
5. All minerals below respective maximum levels (dilute first if needed).

Check out the brew science forum here for more reading.

 

[mongoose33]

Check out the brew science forum here for more reading.

There's a sticky at the top of the brew science forum about water. If I were OP, I'd start there:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/forums/brew-science.128/

 

[Yooper]

Your alkalinity is too high for sure- you will want to look into reducing that. That would be the #1 issue to deal with first.

Also, since the magnesium is a bit too high, you may want to look at cutting the tap water 50/50 (or more) with distilled or reverse osmosis water. (Chloride is a bit high as well, so that would be a good way to start).

 

[aamcle]

this is probably the very best primer I've seen and the author is expert.

http://forum.craftbrewing.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=907


ATB. aamcle

 

[brewbama]

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Thanks all, I'll look into all this tonight!

 

[cactusgarrett]

Southern WI water is crazy alkaline. MKE is better than where I am, but judging by your numbers, not by much. As Yooper said, cut your tap water by 50% with DI/distilled for ANY brew you do. Next step is to read the various links posted by others, and employ a water tool that you're comfortable with. I would suggest brewersfriend.com then BruNWater when you get more comfortable with the various concepts.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Southern WI water is crazy alkaline. MKE is better than where I am, but judging by your numbers, not by much. As Yooper said, cut your tap water by 50% with DI/distilled for ANY brew you do. Next step is to read the various links posted by others, and employ a water tool that you're comfortable with. I would suggest brewersfriend.com then BruNWater when you get more comfortable with the various concepts.

cactus, I'm actually in Mukwonago, so I'm not far from MKE. It's weird, I've been using spring water from wal-mart for my first few AG brews, but this last one I brewed using my tap water and it was my best batch yet. I'll try the distilled/tap mix. Looks like I got a lot of reading to do

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Southern WI water is crazy alkaline. MKE is better than where I am, but judging by your numbers, not by much. As Yooper said, cut your tap water by 50% with DI/distilled for ANY brew you do. Next step is to read the various links posted by others, and employ a water tool that you're comfortable with. I would suggest brewersfriend.com then BruNWater when you get more comfortable with the various concepts.

Just a note - I'm also in Madison. I've titrated twice recently, and hovered around 280 ppm for TA. Our water utility report is showing (for our well), an alkalinity of 283, so I'm pretty confident on the numbers.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Hey folks. I've been on vacation but I've been doing a lot of reading. Particularly I've found what looks like a great primer:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

They agree, use RO or DI to cut tap water. I googled RO and it seems very expensive. Is distilled good enough to cut tap water with?

Also, it mentions alkalinity <35, where mine is 297? Jesus, that seems off the charts. Would I be better not using my tap water at all?

 

[Yooper]

Hey folks. I've been on vacation but I've been doing a lot of reading. Particularly I've found what looks like a great primer:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

They agree, use RO or DI to cut tap water. I googled RO and it seems very expensive. Is distilled good enough to cut tap water with?

Also, it mentions alkalinity <35, where mine is 297? Jesus, that seems off the charts. Would I be better not using my tap water at all?

RO isn't expensive at all- I don't know about your area, but many places like Wal-Mart have those big "water machines" and dispense RO water at about 35 cents a gallon. I got tired of hauling water, and bought my own small RO system for $119 several years ago. But at 35 cents a gallon, you could use a lot of RO water if you didn't mind carrying it home!

Your tap water, with an alkalinity of nearly 300, is likely only good for big stouts, where you can probably dilute it 35-50% with RO or distilled water. But for pale beers, you'd have to dilute it so much that it would probably be easier to just use RO or distilled water.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Sounds about right.

So I really need some CaCl2 and some saurmalz, according to ajdelange.

Don't just need to add 2% saurmalz and then test PH and not it for the next batch, or can I adjust on the fly dueinf tht mash using a PH meter?

 

[RPh_Guy]

The high alkalinity can be neutralized with acid to hit your target mash pH -- tested from a sample drawn 10-20 minutes into the mash and cooled to room temperature.

Saurmalz has lactic acid, so you can use that, food grade lactic acid, or food grade phosphoric acid.

Determining the amount you need.. You can follow the primer you linked (courtesy of Yooper) which is probably "good enough" or you can use a brewing water calculator, e.g. Brun water, mash made easy, brewers friend, etc.

Don't bother trying to adjust the mash pH on the fly. Most of the conversion happens very early.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Wow, my typing was terrible on that post. Ok, so I think I'll start with pure RO water, add the CaCl2 as noted and add 2% saurmalz to the bill and see where my PH is at. Gonna have to be a trial and error thing I guess .

 

[cactusgarrett]

My water report shows an alkalinity of 335 and total bicarb (HCO3) of 409, so I can't even make a stout without some level of dilution. If you're going to build or heavily dilute with RO/DI water, I would suggest getting gypsum, too. My three go-tos are gypsum, CaCl2, and lactic acid. Even non-iodized NaCl, also, if I'm going over 60% dilution.