wort chilling with 85 degree groundwater

[Beer_]

Here in Richmond ,VA the groundwater is already 85 degrees!!!
Today we tested a pre-chiller, submerged in ice, to cool 7.5 gallons of boiling water. Initially the temp dropped ok, we started dropping ice in our pre-chill vessel at about 125 degrees......and...... nothing. We we're still at 98 degrees after 35 minutes. Our test rig blew a hose and we had to cut the test short but we we're 35 minutes in and still hadn't even reached the most stubborn temperature range.


Any ideas? The pre-chill coil is stainless steel, 25 ft. The outlet water hardly seemed cooled at all. Tried high and low flow rates and ran the whirlpool arm the continuously. Our main IC is 50 copper and chills fine during winter temps, but it's not even June yet!!!

Thinking about getting a plate chiller and using all 75 feet to pre-chill. Anyone had success with a setup like this?

thanks

 

[falkaveli]

I'm in Miami...85 is standard (squeaks down to 80 in the winter :-/ )

Pre-chill will never work. Cool with hose water to 100 deg F (stir wort with IC for much quicker chilling)...then use a cheap submersible pump (click link below) to finish the job by pumping ice water from a bucket through your IC. Works like a charm for me.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_58695-60084-FP155___?productId=3036184&pl=1&Ntt=fountain+pump

 

[jekeane]

I'll second what Falkaveli said. I am also in FL, our ground water is a bit cooler but not much. I chill a 6g batch in a keggle from boil to 100ish with hose water in about 10 - 15 minutes and then swap to a pond pump under ice to go 100 - 65 in another 10 - 15 minutes. I usually get a 20lb bag of ice but with some frozen bottles you could prolly do 10lbs or less.

 

[ArcLight]

1. You can try NoChill brewing. Use something like this:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=75033
There are good threads here on "No chill" brewing.


2. Get a big igloo cooler, fill it with water. Freeze some plastic jugs and put them in over night, and freeze more jugs. In the morning take out the thawed jugs (put them back in the freezer) and put in the frozen jugs. Your water will be 40ish, or upper 30ish.
Once you get your wort to 10-15 degrees over ground water temperature, use a pond pump to pump this water through your chiller.
My ground water is 73 in summer so I pump it back into the igloo cooler. I have around 15-20 gallons of water for a 5 or 10 gallon batch.

The other thing to remember is to stir the wort every couple of minutes to distribute the chilled wort around teh pot and bring hotter wort near the coils.

 

[CGVT]

My ground water is about 80*. Pre chill works fine. The key is to move the pre-chiller in the ice so that it doesn't develop a thermal barrier. You need to move the chiller in the wort too. When you move the pre-chiller in the ice/ice water you can feel a noticable temperature difference going into the chiller.

I have a 25' 3/8 prechiller and a 50' 3/8 chiller

I brewed today in the afternoon heat and took my temperature down to 64* in less than twenty minutes.

 

[motobrewer]

I live in Wisconsin. Today I had trouble keeping the wort outlet temp of my plate chiller ABOVE 60F.

I got 99 problems but cold groundwater ain't one.

 

[stpug]

Chill to 100F with hose (as good as you can get anyway); put in fermenter and put in a mini-fridge to continue cooling to desired pitching temp; a few hours later you can pitch your yeast.

 

[falkaveli]

The key is to move the pre-chiller in the ice so that it doesn't develop a thermal barrier. You need to move the chiller in the wort too.

Is this like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time? :cross:

 

[Gavin C]

I prechill with a 25' copper immersion chiller in an ice bucket. Works great with my plate chiller. Moving the chiller in the ice bucket/water sure does help.

North TX water gets hot in summer. Well into the 80's

 

[Beer_]

I'm in Miami...85 is standard (squeaks down to 80 in the winter :-/ )

Pre-chill will never work. Cool with hose water to 100 deg F (stir wort with IC for much quicker chilling)...then use a cheap submersible pump (click link below) to finish the job by pumping ice water from a bucket through your IC. Works like a charm for me.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_58695-60084-FP155___?productId=3036184&pl=1&Ntt=fountain+pump

Out of curiosity, how to you switch over to the pump from the hose?

 

[Beer_]

I prechill with a 25' copper immersion chiller in an ice bucket. Works great with my plate chiller. Moving the chiller in the ice bucket/water sure does help.

North TX water gets hot in summer. Well into the 80's

How much ice do you typically use?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I do the reverse to the above. Wort passes through my plate chiller then through a copper coil in an ice bath, then into my fermenter. No issue in winter (I use rainwater tanks, current water temp is 46F) but in summer my water can get up to about 80F. A 3m copper coil in 25L of ice water (has about 10L of ice in it) is good enough to chill 25L of wort.

I've thought pre-chilling my water (rather than post chilling the wort), so the wort doesn't have to pass through the second coil, but haven't tried it yet.

 

[Gavin C]

How much ice do you typically use?

Just enough to fill the bucket. I use my ice maker in the fridge. Usually three Kroger bags full, two blue ice blocks and a reusable ice bag that I got with some yeast fills it up.

The bucket is a regular bucket you would have to use with a mop. Probably would be less than 1 bag of store bought ice. Those are 5lb I think.

 

[olotti]

What about this as I'm prob going to do this here during the summer, and put your kettle into a tub filled with ice water and then chill with your immersion chiller. Just a thought don't know how well it will work but its a thought.

 

[SeeMont]

olotti, This is what i do. 35 gallon plastic garbage can filled with water. I freeze 2 liter plastic soda bottles and come brew day will add 5 to 6 in to the can. I have a HF big fountain pump to pull water to my IC. I catch the first 4 gallons for clean up and then recycle the rest, chilled in about 20 minutes. I have moved to a Counter flow chiller and it works very fast, about 10 minutes. I add iodophor to sanitize the water.

 

[olotti]

olotti, This is what i do. 35 gallon plastic garbage can filled with water. I freeze 2 liter plastic soda bottles and come brew day will add 5 to 6 in to the can. I have a HF big fountain pump to pull water to my IC. I catch the first 4 gallons for clean up and then recycle the rest, chilled in about 20 minutes. I have moved to a Counter flow chiller and it works very fast, about 10 minutes. I add iodophor to sanitize the water.

Sweet so it works. I just figured Id but a big tub fill it with a 5 lb ice bag and water then when time drop my kettle in and hit the wort with the immersion chiller. Mod summer in mich last year I had a hard time dropping the wort to 60 before pitching as the ground water was warmer so I would hit like mid 60's but thankfully my basement is cooler so that would drop the temp a little before primary fermentation liked off but I'd rather chill to 60 and let it rise on its own

 

[ram5ey]

I do the pump in a bucket of ice water as stated above. Works great.

 

[falkaveli]

Out of curiosity, how to you switch over to the pump from the hose?

It's 1/2" ID tubing out of my pump...so I go 1/2" ID tubing -> 1/2" ID barb -> male hose connector -> female hose connector on IC. I recirculate the output of the wort chiller into the bucket.

The piece I use can be purchased at Home Depot/Lowes...it's this...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JWWTP6M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[ram5ey]

I recirculate the output of the wort chiller into the bucket.

I take the hot water coming out of the chiller and fill a bucket to make oxyclean solution. When the temp falls I then recirculate so I don't melt the ice so fast. Maybe go through five gal extra, but that can be repurposed.

 

[ArcLight]

What about this as I'm prob going to do this here during the summer, and put your kettle into a tub filled with ice water and then chill with your immersion chiller. Just a thought don't know how well it will work but its a thought.

You are a beast if you can pick up a kettle of boiling wort and place it in a tub.
Even a manly man such as myself :fro: stand in awe of you
Because I fear burns use a chiller first, before I would even think about moving the pot.


PS - if you are going to put a a hot pot in a tub of water don't use ice at first.
The pot will cool down to 120-140 fast enough.
Dump the water, add more. Do this a couple of times to get down to 110 -110, then add the ice.
No sense wasting ice when water will work cooling from 210 down to 160.

 

[brewfarmDan]

My ground water is closer to 60 degrees but with a 50 X 3/8" immersion coil it slows cooling at a wort temp of about 80 and almost stalls at 72 on 10 gallons. I have an electric drinking fountain chiller that I will try as a pre-cooler on the next batch. It will only be used after the wort is down near 75 and there will be a trade off between volume and temperature. I will post results on the next batch in about 2 weeks.