Wood for bar build

[daveooph131]

I'm staring the build next week and starting to piece together supplies.

I'm torn between a red oak veneer top vs solid planks for red oak. I'm a little concerned the engineered top may not hold up over time.

Any thoughts and opinions?

 

[GLWIII]

Wood veneer is stable and less likely to warp than a similar solid wood piece. Because wood veneer is glued to a stable substrate such as particle board , MDF or plywood, it doesn’t warp or split like solid wood can. It's a common practice to use it on cabinets, furniture, etc. Cheaper than solid planks too...especially the MDF option.

 

[IslandLizard]

The character and look of real wood boards is way better than a veneered plywood one. If you get the planks jointed right and keep moisture away from all surfaces (varnish) it could look incredible. Now aesthetically you need to review the scale (width and overlaps) of the boards or it will look like a plank floor put on your bar, unless you think of using 6-8" wide boards creatively. Years ago I bought some 3/4" oak veneered plywood for shelves in my kitchen and I picked the best looking grain and texture I could find (premium $$ quality, not HD). It looked great for its purpose, but still unnatural since wood doesn't come in 2-3' wide boards. With good coats of varnish a plywood top should last forever and is less likely to warp over time.

Also consider your edge treatment. Planks have a natural edge, and could be doubled or tripled up. Plywood has very ugly sides.

 

[newbies13]

Hand cut mahogany is the only way to go.
http://toporcarpentry.com/uploads/111_305.jpg

 

[BinghamtonEd]

I would vote for a paneled red oak top, if you have the tools to do so (face/edge jointing, planing, be it by hand or machine). If you don't have the tools, many hardwood/cabinet suppliers will make the panel for you. If you're looking at one of the big box (HD, Lowes, etc) stores for solid hardwood, don't. You can easily spend 3x as much on their s4s wood, the prices are ridiculous. Let the lumber acclimate to your house, and remember to account for seasonal movement by using cleats, figure 8 fasteners, or elongated holes to fasten the solid wood top to the base. A couple of coats danish or boiled linseed oil, followed by a spar varnish or epoxy finish would look great.

 

[dgr]

stable, MDF and a surface meant to have solvents spilled on it do not equate.

 

[daveooph131]

This has been helpful. I think ill go with veneer for cost and ease of use.

Lastly between maple or red oak which wood would you use?

 

[BinghamtonEd]

How are you doing the veneer, and what kind is it (real wood veneer, stick-on plastic, hard formica-type, etc)?

I think the rest of the room would dictate the maple vs oak question. What colors are you using? What's the base made of? If there are a lot of light/dark contrasting colors, I'd pick the maple. If the room is more earthy (greens, browns, etc) I would pick the oak.

 

[daveooph131]

How are you doing the veneer, and what kind is it (real wood veneer, stick-on plastic, hard formica-type, etc)?

I think the rest of the room would dictate the maple vs oak question. What colors are you using? What's the base made of? If there are a lot of light/dark contrasting colors, I'd pick the maple. If the room is more earthy (greens, browns, etc) I would pick the oak.

This is what I'm struggling with. I was going to use one wood for the entire bar.

We just installed new dark wood floor - almost espresso dark. Walls are grey and we have brown leather couches.

 

[BinghamtonEd]

I would go with the maple, then. I built our kitchen cabinets from black walnut with tiger maple...walnut boxes, doors are frame/panel with walnut frames with maple panels. The light/dark contrast works really well.

You could even pick up a sheet of 3/4" walnut plywood from hardwood distributor (be prepared for sticker shock, they run $150-$200 a sheet, but that's a lot of high-quality usable wood). This plywood is going to look world's better than anything you'd see at the big-box stores. When selecting grade, you only need one good side. Don't get pre-finished. You could then glue this to a lower quality sheet of birch plywood from a big box store to get a 1.5" thick top. You'll have ugly edges, but you can then get some maple and cut some strips to trim those ugly sides in. That would give you a nice light on dark top. Or, you can reverse it and get maple plywood and walnut trim. Just ideas. I think whatever way you go, you're going to be into this top for a couple hundred bucks. If you go MDF with formica for $100, it's going to look like a $100 countertop, IMO.

I have an island for the kitchen I'm working on right now that uses black walnut with maple ply. I'll snap a picture tonight to illustrate my point.

 

[daveooph131]

I would go with the maple, then. I built our kitchen cabinets from black walnut with tiger maple...walnut boxes, doors are frame/panel with walnut frames with maple panels. The light/dark contrast works really well.

You could even pick up a sheet of 3/4" walnut plywood from hardwood distributor (be prepared for sticker shock, they run $150-$200 a sheet, but that's a lot of high-quality usable wood). This plywood is going to look world's better than anything you'd see at the big-box stores. When selecting grade, you only need one good side. Don't get pre-finished. You could then glue this to a lower quality sheet of birch plywood from a big box store to get a 1.5" thick top. You'll have ugly edges, but you can then get some maple and cut some strips to trim those ugly sides in. That would give you a nice light on dark top. Or, you can reverse it and get maple plywood and walnut trim. Just ideas. I think whatever way you go, you're going to be into this top for a couple hundred bucks. If you go MDF with formica for $100, it's going to look like a $100 countertop, IMO.

I have an island for the kitchen I'm working on right now that uses black walnut with maple ply. I'll snap a picture tonight to illustrate my point.

A picture would be great. I'm a newb so would be helpful.

 

[BinghamtonEd]

Here is a picture, sorry for the lousy camera phone quality. I used boiled linseed oil so the maple is slightly golden in color (to match the rest of our cabinets). Not necessary though. Should have this wrapped up this weekend minus the doors and slide-outs. I have a maple butcher block I made for the top.

 

[daveooph131]

Here is a picture, sorry for the lousy camera phone quality. I used boiled linseed oil so the maple is slightly golden in color (to match the rest of our cabinets). Not necessary though. Should have this wrapped up this weekend minus the doors and slide-outs. I have a maple butcher block I made for the top.

That looks awesome! What kind if stain did you use on the walnut?

 

[BinghamtonEd]

No stain whatsoever. It's made of solid black walnut and maple ply. Any hardwood dealer should have maple and walnut, and I find walnut is extremely easy to work with, not much more difficult than pine, and easier than maple. It has two coats of boiled linseed oil wiped on, which brings out the grain and gives a nice deep color to the walnut. With the oil, you wipe it on with a rag, wait a half hour, then wipe off the excess. It's pretty I possible to screw it up, as it is a penetrating oil and doesn't build a finish on the surface. I guess you could mess it up if you left the rags in a pile and burned down your house. After the oil cured for a week or so, I wipe on 5 coats of General Finishes Arm-R-Seal, lightly sanding with 400-grit after coats 2 and 4 to knock down any dust nibs. Buff out the final coat with Johnson's paste wax and 0000 steel wool. However for a bar top, I'd still lean towards spar varnish for more protection. Epifanes makes a good one.

 

[BinghamtonEd]

I'll also add that the nice thing about not having to stain it is that you can finish it all at once, the colors won't run, and it's just less mess.

 

[daveooph131]

I think I'm going to model my bar after your cabinets and this bar...

Only thing is in not sure if I can find Chicago bar rail in black walnut.

 

[daveooph131]

One final question - based on the cost of walnut is there another wood I could use and stain to get the same light and dark effect the walnut and maple are getting you?

 

[jmichaeldesign]

I build furniture and cabinets full time, so I have some experience here. You can use solid wood and be fine, but making large panels from solid wood that will remain stable requires a fair amount of experience and equipment.

I pay about 100 bucks a sheet for nice plywood and that's wholesale, so plan on spending 150 or more from a retail outfit.

To put that in perspective though hardwood is sold by the boardfoot which is one foot square and one foot thick.

Retail price on pre-surfaced hardwood will range from 3-4 bucks a foot for oak, 4-5 for maple and 6+ for walnut. Theres some other options in there as well such as alder which is easy to work with but difficult to stain (more on that later).

A sheet of plywood is 32 square feet or effectively 32 board feet which puts it around 3-4 dollars a board foot. Its well worth the money and much easier to work with.

The plywood will be more stable over time. If I were building a bar I'd probably lean towards using plywood on the sides and solid wood on top.

When buying nice plywood make sure the veneers are plain sawn or rift sawn. This means they slice the veneer off the log the same way that they would cut boards.

Mid grade plywood will still use hardwood veneer on the faces but will be spiral cut. They actually spin the log and slice the veneer off in a long continual ribbon almost like peeling an orange in one piece. This is a faster process with less waste, but it creates unnatural grain patterns in the veneer that just scream "cheap".

On the topic of staining a cheaper wood this can be a good option. When bidding projects for customers I always encourage people to go with the wood they want instead of doing this. For me though the cost of labor for staining is often more for the customer than the extra material cost.

For a project on your own though if you're just on a budget and have the time, go ahead and stain it.

If you do this however I'd stay clear of birch, alder, maple or cherry. These woods are very difficult to get an even coat of stain and even for someone like me are very difficult to not get blotches of dark and light spots.

Oak (red or white) is much easier to get an even coat of stain on. For someone less experienced I recommend using a gel stain as they're a bit easier to get an even coat. Doing a good job sanding is crucial to getting an even coat of stain. It helps to make the porosity of the wood more consistent so that it doesn't over absorb stain making dark blotches. Sanding sealer previous to the stain can be highly beneficial to getting an even coat of stain as well.

Also consider painting to get the effect you want. Paint is actually a much better sealant and will protect the wood from moisture better than any clear wood finish.

I'd recomend an oil based paint. I really like the Rustoleum line of oil based paints that are available at HD or Lowes. They lay out much smoother than latex. Also latex never seems to completely dry. Latex is great for drywall, but I'd never use it on any furniture or cabinetry.

Feel free to PM me with any questions. I'm happy to help.

 

[dgr]

To put that in perspective though hardwood is sold by the boardfoot which is one foot square and one inch thick.

fixed it for you.

When buying nice plywood make sure the veneers are plain sawn or rift sawn. This means they slice the veneer off the log the same way that they would cut boards.

or quarter sawn. If I was using oak and wanted engineered, I would try to find some quarter sawn white oak veneer or resaw it.

Mid grade plywood will still use hardwood veneer on the faces but will be spiral cut. They actually spin the log and slice the veneer off in a long continual ribbon almost like peeling an orange in one piece. This is a faster process with less waste, but it creates unnatural grain patterns in the veneer that just scream "cheap".

A perfect example of this is the mahogany bar posted earlier. For all we know the front panels could be birch or alder or whatever as the face is rotary veneer.

Great post jmichael!

 

[Marta Heine]

It depends with the style you want. With Veneer, it is really a very thin panel of wood (around 5-6mm thick). This can be applied to a chip board, or even solid wood. However, most people prefer solid wood to be a better choice than veneer panels due to its quality whereas some consider veneer to be a bit low in quality in comparison for solid wood.

 

[November]

Looking at that picture, how about alder? The boards tend to be narrow but the price is usually pretty good. As far as jointing, I'd shiplap it. Then, stain and spar urethane. Should be pretty moisture resistant. That's the method I used on my wood brew stand and it's holding up well.

 

[madscientist451]

This is what I'm struggling with. I was going to use one wood for the entire bar.

We just installed new dark wood floor - almost espresso dark. Walls are grey and we have brown leather couches.

Not sure if I would use one wood for the entire bar, that would be kind of blah....
But with the dark floors and brown leather couch, I don't think I'd use any walnut for trim pieces either. Just too many different shades of brown.
I ran a small sawmill business for 10 + years, and I would encourage you to seek out small, local producers that can provide you with something unique.
I looked on Google and found one near Dallas:

https://www.hardensawmill.com/

How about a slab bar top?

 

[sidewinder1987]

I used bamboo flooring on the top a different bamboo on the sides and wrapped it all with maple hardwood