WLP028 problems?

[jmark]

Okay, so I brewed a Scottish Export Ale (aka 80-/) 10 days ago on my Zymatic.

Here's some info:

• Mashed at 152 for 90 minutes with a 10 minute mashout at 168.
• Malt bill did include around 15% Crystal malts - a 50/50 mix of 15L and 77L.
• OG was 1059 and expected FG 1014 (according to Beersmith).
• Oxygenated well - rate of 1/4L per minute for 2 minutes (exp. 10-12ppm O2).
• Pitched a starter of WLP028 at a rate of 1.00m/mlxP.

Everything looked rosy to begin with. Fermentation took off around 12-18 hours and gravity dropped down to 1035 within 2 days. Then it stalled. Stayed at 1035 for 2 days so I roused the yeast with a spoon. That helped a bit... dropped to 1025 over the next 2 days, but now it's been 4 days and nothing's happening (despite another rousing of the yeast).

1025 isn't going to work... I've never used this yeast before, but I've heard that it can take a long time to finish out, but no movement at all? The way I see it, I can get another 028 starter up and running and dump that in at high krausen or I can just dump the batch. Thoughts or ideas?

 

[Steveruch]

Okay, so I brewed a Scottish Export Ale (aka 80-/) 10 days ago on my Zymatic.

Here's some info:

• Mashed at 152 for 90 minutes with a 10 minute mashout at 168.
• Malt bill did include around 15% Crystal malts - a 50/50 mix of 15L and 77L.
• OG was 1059 and expected FG 1014 (according to Beersmith).
• Oxygenated well - rate of 1/4L per minute for 2 minutes (exp. 10-12ppm O2).
• Pitched a starter of WLP028 at a rate of 1.00m/mlxP.

Everything looked rosy to begin with. Fermentation took off around 12-18 hours and gravity dropped down to 1035 within 2 days. Then it stalled. Stayed at 1035 for 2 days so I roused the yeast with a spoon. That helped a bit... dropped to 1025 over the next 2 days, but now it's been 4 days and nothing's happening (despite another rousing of the yeast).

1025 isn't going to work... I've never used this yeast before, but I've heard that it can take a long time to finish out, but no movement at all? The way I see it, I can get another 028 starter up and running and dump that in at high krausen or I can just dump the batch. Thoughts or ideas?

Ten days is not that long. Give it more time, maybe a raise in temperature is called for.
Do not dump it! If it ends up no good you can always dump it later, but once dumped you can't undump it.

 

[LLBeanJ]

WLP028 is my go-to clean ale strain. One of the things I love about it is that it's not a high attenuator and if I need it to finish on the drier side I can use some simple sugar in the recipe. With that said, I've never had issues with it not finishing where BeerSmith indicated it would (give or take a couple points). It does typically take a good 10 days or so for the krausen to fall, but when it does, it's generally about done. As suggested above, try raising the temp and giving it more time.

 

[trav77]

Okay, so I brewed a Scottish Export Ale (aka 80-/) 10 days ago on my Zymatic.

Here's some info:

• Mashed at 152 for 90 minutes with a 10 minute mashout at 168.
• Malt bill did include around 15% Crystal malts - a 50/50 mix of 15L and 77L.
• OG was 1059 and expected FG 1014 (according to Beersmith).
• Oxygenated well - rate of 1/4L per minute for 2 minutes (exp. 10-12ppm O2).
• Pitched a starter of WLP028 at a rate of 1.00m/mlxP.

Everything looked rosy to begin with. Fermentation took off around 12-18 hours and gravity dropped down to 1035 within 2 days. Then it stalled. Stayed at 1035 for 2 days so I roused the yeast with a spoon. That helped a bit... dropped to 1025 over the next 2 days, but now it's been 4 days and nothing's happening (despite another rousing of the yeast).

1025 isn't going to work... I've never used this yeast before, but I've heard that it can take a long time to finish out, but no movement at all? The way I see it, I can get another 028 starter up and running and dump that in at high krausen or I can just dump the batch. Thoughts or ideas?

What temperature are you fermenting at? Tried bumping it up? Since you're mostly attenuated it won't add much esters, etc.

WLP028 apparent attenuation is 70-75% so you likely won't get as low as BS is predicting... more like 1.015-1.018 but from your info above it seems like you should be able to get it < 1.020.

 

[jmark]

Probably should have mentioned that, huh! I have tight temp control using brewpi and I started off at 62F (where the bulk of the fermentation occurred) and raised it to 67 over a couple of days when I roused it the first time. Ive since upped the temp again to 70 (it'll reach that tomorrow) but it seems like it's just stalled out... the huge raft of yeast that folks talk about with this yeast has been slowly swirled back into solution. I'll let it go for another few days, but 1025 seems awfully high.

 

[Gerry_P]

I've found that WLP028 is sluggish in the low 60s, but it has always finished for me. Keep it around 68-70 for a while and give it at least 3 weeks total, it should be in the ballpark.
I prefer Wyeast 1728, which my LHBS tends to run out of more often than 028. It seems to like cooler temperatures more, and it seems to finish cleaner with less conditioning time. Win/win, ymmv. I know they're supposed to be the same strain, but I have a feeling they're not identical.

 

[jmark]

Thanks for all the input... no rush on this, so I'll just leave it in there for another week or two. If I can get it down to 1018 I'll consider that a win.

Incidentally, I have used 1728 before on several Wee Heavy brews with some success. I might have to go back to that yeast the next time I do a Scottish ale.

 

[Steveruch]

I've found that WLP028 is sluggish in the low 60s, but it has always finished for me. Keep it around 68-70 for a while and give it at least 3 weeks total, it should be in the ballpark.
I prefer Wyeast 1728, which my LHBS tends to run out of more often than 028. It seems to like cooler temperatures more, and it seems to finish cleaner with less conditioning time. Win/win, ymmv. I know they're supposed to be the same strain, but I have a feeling they're not identical.

I don't think they are either. I've brewed the same 80/ recipe with both and prefer the 1728.

 

[catdaddy66]

WLP028 is my go-to clean ale strain. One of the things I love about it is that it's not a high attenuator and if I need it to finish on the drier side I can use some simple sugar in the recipe. With that said, I've never had issues with it not finishing where BeerSmith indicated it would (give or take a couple points). It does typically take a good 10 days or so for the krausen to fall, but when it does, it's generally about done. As suggested above, try raising the temp and giving it more time.

It's been 2.5 weeks since I pitched this yeast in my wee heavy and the krausen remains at about1.5" and as glorious as Alec Baldwin's hair!

 

[jmark]

Okay, just a follow-up... so I kept the batch at 70 for another couple of days and nothing happened. Sooo... I went nuclear! I added some amylase and roused the yeast and lo-and-behold the gravity started dropping again. It's dropped from 1.025 to 1.019 so far in 4 days and seems to be slowing down now... if I get to 1.018 that'll be okay for me.

Now... why the **** did this work? My mash temperature was all of 152 degrees for 90 (yes, NINETY) minutes with a mashout at 168 for 10 mins, so that really should have resulted in a pretty fermentable wort. Yes, I had about 10% crystal, but that really shouldn't have resulted in such low attenuation. Seems like there's nothing wrong with the yeast as the wee beasties are obviously not having any difficulty eating up the new fermentables. Any ideas?