WLP 565 Saison Experience... Again

[breckenridge]

There are a lot of old threads on this topic, but I thought I'd start a new one since it's getting to be/already is saison time, and I'm fermenting my first crack at one.

After reading Farmhouse Ales and many many posts on the topic, I decided to go ahead and use the DuPont strain and just crank the heat in my FC for this, my first in a series of single-hop saisons.

OG 1.058 brewed 6/21 (8 days ago), chilled to mid-80's F
40s pure O2
Pitched about 1.6 L starter/5.5 gallons wort
Fermentation temp 32C = 89.6F (damn celsius stc-1000s)
Active fermentation in about 2 hours, airlock blew off the smaller carboy in 6 hours, blowoff assembly placed, kept on for about 4 days

SG this morning = 1.005
ABV 7.0%

Flavors from the hydrometer sample are a bit rough, esp at ~90F, but peppery spice, sharp something or other that's almost citrus, and a fairly noticeable alcoholic warmth, which I suspect/hope will diminish with higher carbonation and lower temps.

I'll probably cold crash mid-week, and keg/bottle over the long weekend, but I'm happy with the results so far.

Future iterations in this series will be lower gravity - I intend these beers to be sessionable, more so than 7% will allow.

 

[tagz]

Impressive that you got it to finish that fast on the first gen. Although that's the temp regime that WL suggests (start @ 90) if you want it to finish in a shorter timeframe. When I emailed them, they did say there would be some fusel production at that temp. I also asked what temp to run it if I plan on finishing with 3711 and just want the best profile. They recommended mid 70s.

 

[Austin_]

I just brewed a saison last week with 565.

8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Acid Malt (3.0 SRM)
0.50 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)
0.75 oz Sorachi Ace [11.10 %] (60 min)
1.25 oz Sorachi Ace [11.10 %] (Whirlpool at 180)

OG ended up at 1.047. I pitched a 1L stirplated starter at 80 and let it ride there in the outside shed. It went up and town a touch, but stayed mostly around 80. I pulled a sample this morning and it's down to 1.005 in 6 days. Not too shabby. A proper starter and a little heat and this yeast isn't really all that hard to work with.

 

[g-star]

Pitching that hot is a mistake and a recipe for fusels and off flavors, even with this strain.

Much better results are obtained with 565 by pitching around 68F and holding for 36hrs before ramping 2F every 12 hrs to 80F and holding there. Adding 0.5lbs of plain sugar just after high krausen will help ensure full attenuation down to less than 1.005 in about 6-7 days.






Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[govner1]

Pitching that hot is a mistake and a recipe for fusels and off flavors, even with this strain.

Much better results are obtained with 565 by pitching around 68F and holding for 36hrs before ramping 2F every 12 hrs to 80F and holding there. Adding 0.5lbs of plain sugar just after high krausen will help ensure full attenuation down to less than 1.005 in about 6-7 days.






Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

^^^this


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[sawbossFogg]

Well done! Its all about using the real live liquid WL cultured yeasts and warm ferms for saisons. Dry yeasts suck, period, especially for specialty strains.

 

[sawbossFogg]

Pitching that hot is a mistake and a recipe for fusels and off flavors, even with this strain.

Much better results are obtained with 565 by pitching around 68F and holding for 36hrs before ramping 2F every 12 hrs to 80F and holding there. Adding 0.5lbs of plain sugar just after high krausen will help ensure full attenuation down to less than 1.005 in about 6-7 days.

"Off" is an entirely subjective term. Your right those temps are very high. Thats why farmhouse brewers did so seasonally before the summer go too hot. Nonetheless, they didn't have Morebeers ultimate conical or a jacketed fermentor. Therefore using the word "mistake" is quite bold. With that said, I think your advice is good. However, at low OG's and good Oxygen his product will not be boozy and will age well. Some of us don't want our Belgian beers morphed into perfect California ales.

 

[g-star]

However, at low OG's and good Oxygen his product will not be boozy and will age well. Some of us don't want our Belgian beers morphed into perfect California ales.

My experience has shown otherwise.

Plenty of Belgian/saison character will be evident following the cool pitch/steady rise method. You do not need to pitch at 90F to to get the classice flavor profile, that just encourages unwanted flavors and fusel alcohol production.

The OP stated his beer was fermenting in 2 hours and blowing off in 6hrs...that right there is a huge red flag. An 8-12 hour lag time is a sign of a healthy fermentation and optimal replication. That fast a start means massive over-pitch or way too high of a pitching temp.

 

[Smellyglove]

I made a second batch of a saison I did earlier this spring. Pitch at 70, then rise to 80 after 24 hrs, rise to 86 after 24 hours and let it sit there until I reach day 14.

I think I have to dump it. Fusels all over the place. Although, there was a 12-hrs window between I got drunk and yanked the wrong outlet (the STC), until I woke up and discovered my mistake, So I brought it up to 80 from 70 again. I wonder If this might give me the jet-fuel-taste.

Next try will be a more gentle fermentation, as I got some fusels in my first batch too, but they went away after some time on bottles. Let it sit longer at 80s.

 

[Smellyglove]

40s pure O2

Is this PPMs? That's A LOT!

 

[FarmerTed]

Impressive that you got it to finish that fast on the first gen. Although that's the temp regime that WL suggests (start @ 90) if you want it to finish in a shorter timeframe. When I emailed them, they did say there would be some fusel production at that temp. I also asked what temp to run it if I plan on finishing with 3711 and just want the best profile. They recommended mid 70s.

You seriously asked White Labs about using Wyeast yeast to finish out one of their fermentations? Lol!

 

[breckenridge]

Is this PPMs? That's A LOT!

No. I hit it with O2 for 40 seconds. Dunno ppms.

I'm willing to consider that my temps are too high, and will be tasting as impartially as I can, and will be alerting how I handle this yeast many times in the future.

Given what I'd read, though, I'm not convinced at this time (still early) that the high temps were a mistake per se.

Could certainly be wrong, though.

 

[Hermit]

No. I hit it with O2 for 40 seconds. Dunno ppms.

I'm willing to consider that my temps are too high, and will be tasting as impartially as I can, and will be alerting how I handle this yeast many times in the future.

Given what I'd read, though, I'm not convinced at this time (still early) that the high temps were a mistake per se.

Could certainly be wrong, though.

The warmer the liquid the less O2 it will hold.

 

[tagz]

You seriously asked White Labs about using Wyeast yeast to finish out one of their fermentations? Lol!

Ha. No, it was a typo. I spoke with wyeast. I was using 3724. Although I'm sure WL would still field the question.

 

[tgmartin000]

I'm pretty disappointed with my results with 565. In fact, I have a saison that scored a 40 last fall, to netting me my lowest comp score ever, because of this yeast.

After loads of research, I thought I had this yeast figured out. Pitch high, and go up from there. I pitched at 80, kicked to 85 at 24 hours, held for three days, then slow climb to 93 or so

There are some definite off flavors, and a touch of booze. I pitched an appropriate starter and lots of 02. Next time I will definitely pitch at 68, then go from there. This beer attenuated plenty, with a 1 003 fg, from 1.065.

 

[sawbossFogg]

Yeah I pitch it about 70 and let it rise to about 78.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[breckenridge]

Yeah, I'll handle the yeast differently next batch. Chilled to 60F and tasted another sample yesterday. A bit boozy, though more in a vinous way that in a hot moonshine way.

Still, not exactly the effect I was going for. Hoping it will age gracefully for a few weeks to months. It probably won't be going on tap until the end of the month anyway.