Will this heating element work for a brew kettle?

[cuse88]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0060HN70M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Will 2 of these elements work in a brew kettle with a max boil of 6-7 gallons?

 

[jpalarchio]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0060HN70M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Will 2 of these elements work in a brew kettle with a max boil of 6-7 gallons?

Should be able to get close to +3 degrees/minute with 3000 watts.

 

[atoughram]

LWD element.... Could be good for scorching beer.

 

[Minbari]

I have two of these in my BK (240v version) and it boils 5 gallons in about 40 minutes. they are DEF not low watt density though. about 6" long. make sure you have enough current to run these if you are going 120 volts. they are 12 amps EACH.

the jury is still out on the scorched wort debate. plenty of people say it is beer voodoo.

 

[Rivenin]

LWD element.... Could be good for scorching beer.

unless you've experienced it first hand... i wouldn't make assumptions.

When i was electric, i used 2 of those exact elements in a keggle, works fine... made some very light beers with no hints of scorching. boiled off around a gallon an hour in my keggles.

I'm actually going to get another pot soon and go back to them with my controller, the keggle was just too big and too bulky to be enjoyable.

Best of luck! let me know if you have any questions.

 

[cuse88]

I'll give them a run and see.

The first run on the kettle will be a saison , which if some smokey flavors occur it'll make it a more historical version of the style ( way back when they used to boil for hours causing caramelization)


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[atoughram]

unless you've experienced it first hand... i wouldn't make assumptions.

No one is making assumptions - I've scorched beer on non-ULWD elements in the past. BUT - they were 220V elements hence the word "Could".

 

[Minbari]

Voltage doesn't really come into play. If it is 3000 watts, its 3000 watts. Could be 12 volts or 10,000.

Watt density might make s difference, but not voltage

 

[Bartp]

Should be able to get close to +3 degrees/minute with 3000 watts.

I think a little lower but not by much. Math time. Lets start with 7 gallons of 68 degree water.

80c * 30834g * 4.186J = 10325689.92J
10325689.92J/3000J/s = 3441.9 sec
3442 sec/60 = 57.36 min

80 degrees C is difference between 20C (68F) and boiling 100C (212F). 7 gallons of water = 30834 grams. 4.186 J is energy required to heat 1g of water by 1 degree. 3000w (two 1500w elements) = 3000 J/s

So with perfect efficiency and no heat loss, you're looking at about an hour to boil 7 gallons. With about 20% heat transfer loss (insulated kettle) you're looking at about 70 min, or average about 2 degrees per second. Which is really not all that bad.

 

[thefost]

Yep, I can boil 11 gallons no problem using 3000W, so 6-7 will be easy.

If I were you I' might consider getting the all stainless element from this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/100-stainless-heating-element-486601/

It'll be about the same 1500W at 120V, and lower watt density to boot. More expensive, but the base of the element you are considering will probably start rusting pretty quickly. I've had far too many elements rust on me...

 

[atoughram]

Voltage doesn't really come into play. If it is 3000 watts, its 3000 watts. Could be 12 volts or 10,000.

Watt density might make s difference, but not voltage

You are correct - and it was a 2000 watt LWD element that scorched my batch.

 

[Black]

well that's strange, I've been using a 4500watts LWD element for a few years now and never scorched any brew. Not even close. That being said, if I was to rebuild a new system, I would get ULWD to be on the safe side.

Could there be different "standards" between manufacturers as to what is to be labeled as LWD or ULWD ?

 

[wilserbrewer]

I'll give them a run and see.



The first run on the kettle will be a saison , which if some smokey flavors occur it'll make it a more historical version of the style ( way back when they used to boil for hours causing caramelization)

I have used HWD 120v 2000w elements for years with one episode of scorching. I foolishly paused the boil to run some errands for about an hour. I believe the trub all settled around the elements and led to scorching. Never a problem before or after this event.



The scorched taste is not smokey at all, but rather burnt ashtray. I dumped 15 gallons after I fermented it.

Not a heavy flavor, but noticeable and would have made me crazy to be reminded of the event for months, so I swallowed the bitter pill all at once and dumped the batch.

 

[cuse88]

Thanks for all the help everyone!

One final question which might seem dumb, are the o-rings provided with the heating elements safe to use or do they need to be replaced?

 

[wilserbrewer]

People use them, they are on the outside of the kettle fwiw...

Some might feel better using silicon, likely not much difference....





Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[Minbari]

I used mine, on the outside, sealed up wonderful

 

[cuse88]

All turned well! No leaks Making the initial heating test with the elements as we speak. Thanks for the help!






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[cuse88]

The boil ended up being a little weaker than expected at both 7 and 6 gallons. The temp stayed between 210-212.

I am thinking of insulating all sides and the bottom of the kettle. I'm afraid some heat was lost between the bottom of the kettle and the steel table.

Besides that all went well and the water heated at about 2 degrees per minute.


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[cuse88]

On on another note both elements rusted pretty bad at the bases. An issue I had read about but didn't anticipate how bad it was.

Is there any 100 percent stainless options at 120v ?


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[thefost]

On on another note both elements rusted pretty bad at the bases. An issue I had read about but didn't anticipate how bad it was.

Is there any 100 percent stainless options at 120v ?


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Like I mentioned earlier, check out the one in this thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/100-stainless-heating-element-486601/

I probably should have explained better. It's a 220V element, but you can always use a 220V element at 120V. The general rule is you just divide the wattage by 4 for a 240V element, but since this is 220V your final wattage at 120V for this element should be 5500 * 120^2 / 220^2 = 1636W (if my early morning math is right). So that's pretty close to the 1500 watts you're looking for.

I've always used 220/240V elements at 120V exclusively because that makes the element ultra low watt density, so you never have the possibility of scorching.

If you want to try and salvage your current rusted elements, you could try to scrub the rust off, then cover the bases with some 100% silicone sealant. That kept my elements from rusting for a while, but eventually they still had to go.

 

[cuse88]

Ahh I didn't know that was even possible to use 220 on a 120 system.

Is the wiring and amps any different?

Definitely will be going this route if all is the same.




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[cuse88]

Also, the base on element should be the same as the camco I had installed correct?


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[thefost]

Wiring is exactly the same.

The amps are different. P=IV (aka Watts = Amps * Voltage ). For that element at 220V, you would use 5500/220 = 25 amps. But at 120V, you would only have 1636/120 = 13.6 amps.

 

[thefost]

It's 1" NPT thread, so yeah that's the same standard thread size as your camco

Also, the base on element should be the same as the camco I had installed correct?


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[Bobby_M]

Wiring is exactly the same.

The amps are different. P=IV (aka Watts = Amps * Voltage ). For that element at 220V, you would use 5500/220 = 25 amps. But at 120V, you would only have 1636/120 = 13.6 amps.

Just one nitpick, the elements are usually rated at 240v so 5500w on 120v is 1375 watts. Either way, close enough.

 

[thefost]

Just one nitpick, the elements are usually rated at 240v so 5500w on 120v is 1375 watts. Either way, close enough.

Yeah, this one states its 220 on the webpage so not entirely sure

 

[Bobby_M]

Hmm, good point. They are listed either way on websites but the handful I have here that are Camco brand or Utilitech say 240v.

 

[jpalarchio]

Like I mentioned earlier, check out the one in this thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/100-stainless-heating-element-486601/

Just make sure you read the full thread before ordering. I started that thread and I'm not convinced the element is the wattage that is advertised. The vendor is checking with their supplier.

 

[cuse88]

Thanks for the heads was about to order since I'm planing for a brew day this weekend.

Hopefully this gets answered quickly.


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[cuse88]

With stainless out for now and 1500 watts not working well enough, I ended up picking 2 1750watt high density elements. 1750 is about as high as I can go at 120@15 amps.

Test run will be tonight and hopefully brewing Saturday


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[thefost]

Sorry to get your hopes up on the stainless one that went bust =(

So you're really having trouble doing 6-7 gallons using 3kw? Is it not getting enough boiloff, or are you not even getting a rolling boil?

With the lid half on I've gotten boilovers on mine using 3kw.

With stainless out for now and 1500 watts not working well enough, I ended up picking 2 1750watt high density elements. 1750 is about as high as I can go at 120@15 amps.

Test run will be tonight and hopefully brewing Saturday


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[Minbari]

same here, I got 5 gallons to a rolling boil with 3kW in 40 minutes.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Results will vary depending on kettle size and diameter.

Larger kettles require more watts to boil similar volume as a smaller pot.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[cuse88]

This project almost has me ready to launch my kettle.

Took out the 1500watt elements which sealed fine and were leak free from the get go. The new 1750watt elements I cannot get to stop leaking.

I tried the silicone orings I bought and they didn't work. Tried the oringal gasket and that didn't work.

At this point, am I good to just silicone the hell out of the thing to seal it up?


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[kal]

The first run on the kettle will be a saison , which if some smokey flavors occur it'll make it a more historical version of the style ( way back when they used to boil for hours causing caramelization)

As wilserbrewer said, scorched wort doesn't taste smokey. It tastes like an ashtray. Completely undrinkable.

Next time you have a bonfire take some of the wood embers and stir them up in a glass of water. That's what scorched wort tastes like.

I'm not saying you'll get scorching (it's actually fairly hard to do even with higher density elements). Just saying that don't use them to try to make a beer with smokey flavours...

For rust, one option that some brewers do is to add a sacrificial magnesium anode.

Kal

 

[cuse88]

As wilserbrewer said, scorched wort doesn't taste smokey. It tastes like an ashtray. Completely undrinkable.



Next time you have a bonfire take some of the wood embers and stir them up in a glass of water. That's what scorched wort tastes like.



I'm not saying you'll get scorching (it's actually fairly hard to do even with higher density elements). Just saying that don't use them to try to make a beer with smokey flavours...



For rust, one option that some brewers do is to add a sacrificial magnesium anode.



Kal

Thanks for the help Kal.

Any recommendations for my leaking element issue described above?


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[kal]

Any recommendations for my leaking element issue described above?

Nope - sorry!

Kal

 

[wilserbrewer]

Any recommendations for my leaking element issue described above?

Element - gasket - kettle wall - lock nut....

Correct, with the gasket outside the kettle???

The holes in the kettle are smooth and provide a sealing mating smooth surface for the gasket o ring???




Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[cuse88]

Yeah I tried all that but just got it to seal after a couple homebrews nonetheless ha.

Had to use an 1/8" thick silicone o ring inside the kettle and it finally sealed beautifully.




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