Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[tbelczak]

Thanks tbelczak! This is unfortunate. I have being saving up for this and other items to get my basement electric setup done. I unfortunately have already spent out the money for the electrical and specifically for this induction cooktop . I guess I will still end up going with this and just be careful on the power setting/usage. I think in my electrical(very limited) research, the 240v can vary on your location +/- a few volts. Is it possible your house may have a lower voltage coming in (or did for that short period of time) causing it to blow? I guess any voltage below 233.33 would put you over 15 amps at the 3500watt setting.

Since you did open it up...did you potentially see anyway to provide an external control for the power? Something that could be useful for temp controlling?

I don't know enough about electronics to answer your question about controlling external power, but I've included a photo of the insides that may tell you something. Seems like everything associated with the external power is a screw terminal and easily accessible.

 

[Wynne-R]

I think the issue is heat inside the case. In a hot environment you have to de-rate the fuse. Fortunately, by putting the fuse outside the case you have effectively solved the problem

Even without the heat, 15 amps seems a little light. The line voltage can vary by 5%, so if the load is constant, the actual current could be 14 - 16 amps.

Boiling a big pot is making the thing work pretty hard. I would have used a 20.

 

[tbelczak]

I think the issue is heat inside the case. In a hot environment you have to de-rate the fuse. Fortunately, by putting the fuse outside the case you have effectively solved the problem

Even without the heat, 15 amps seems a little light. The line voltage can vary by 5%, so if the load is constant, the actual current could be 14 - 16 amps.

Boiling a big pot is making the thing work pretty hard. I would have used a 20.

The fuse holder I bought is rated for 30A, so I can always upgrade the fuse if needed without replacing any parts. I plan to give the 15A 250V another shot since I got a 4-pack of them at RadioShack. There is a huge heat sink and big fan on the unit, so I think the insides do stay relatively cool.

 

[whoaru99]

For purely resistive devices, like a normal heating elements, it's the opposite - high voltage = high current and low voltage = low current.

Yes.

I didn't specify any particular way because the nature of the device is unknown. Some increase draw as voltage drops, SMPS is a good example, some decrease draw as voltage drops, like your example of a resistive heater.

The pictures of the induction plate guts tend to make me think it's akin to a SMPS and thus probably draws more current to maintain the output if supply voltage drops. Again, this is unknown for sure, but it's what I speculate.

 

[AnOldUR]

If it blows again, I will just run the cooktop at the 3100W setting in the future.

Hard to say what caused your problem, but as a comparison, over the last two years I've brewed 28 batches with the same induction hob. Most were 11 gallon boils that lasted at least 75 minutes (not counting the time it takes to get to a boil) and the unit was run mostly at the full 3500 watt setting. The power coming into my house is in the 235 to 240 volts range.

Not to mention that two years ago, I ran an extension to the back yard and used it to fry a turkey for Thanksgiving. Thought for sure I'd destroyed it. The oil boiled over and covered everything. :cross:

Just saying, from my experience, it's a pretty solid unit.

 

[carlk47]

Up and running!

 

[Aerobrew]

Exactly what I was thinking of doing, induction and the megapot. What size pot is that? How well has it been working for you, any issues with boils or anything? I am trying to plan out my brewery right now and if this is working good for you, I think I will go that way. I have been impressed with the megapots for the price.

 

[carlk47]

Exactly what I was thinking of doing, induction and the megapot. What size pot is that? How well has it been working for you, any issues with boils or anything? I am trying to plan out my brewery right now and if this is working good for you, I think I will go that way. I have been impressed with the megapots for the price.

I just got my Megapot so I haven't had the chance to brew on it yet... will let you know after I brew up a Dunkelweizen this weekend! I boiled 4.5 gal of water in it last night just to test it out and it went from 60 degrees to boiling in 45 minutes. I will probably put 7-8 gal in it tonight and see how long that takes to boil.

It's a 10 gal pot

 

[carlk47]

Boiled up 8 gals of water in about 65-70 minutes starting from 60 degrees. Took around 45 minutes to get to 160(approx. strike temp). Pretty happy with these results for kitchen brewing!

 

[Aerobrew]

That is great news. I have been putting off purchasing the MegaPot just because I didn't know if it would work with induction. Thank you for the details it helps me out tremendously.

 

[brettwasbtd]

Hmmm, was that with the lid on? I feel like I saw faster times for that volume somewhere earlier in this thread... How thick is the megapot? I feel like lid on and some reflectix insulation around it could be closer to 30mins?

yep found it:

Yep, works great. I get better heating performance than most propane burners. Tap temp to strike temp in 20-30 mins, mash temp to boil in 20-30 mins.

Here's a video of it in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkvzEHNki-0

 

[carlk47]

Hmmm, was that with the lid on? I feel like I saw faster times for that volume somewhere earlier in this thread... How thick is the megapot? I feel like lid on and some reflectix insulation around it could be closer to 30mins?

yep found it:

His video is shown with a 6 gal volume from 120 to boil in 32 minutes. Mine was 8 gal volume 60 to boil in 70 minutes with the lid on. I'm guessing my times would be about the same with the smaller volume.

The 10 gal megapot is 0.8 mm thick according to the northern brewer website.

I'm betting some reflectix would definitely help. Haven't had a chance to try that yet though.

Just for the fun of it tonight I will try 6 gals from 120 to boiling to see how it compares between the megapot and bayou classic kettles. I'm curious as well..

 

[brettwasbtd]

Boiled up 8 gals of water in about 65-70 minutes starting from 60 degrees. Took around 45 minutes to get to 160(approx. strike temp). Pretty happy with these results for kitchen brewing!

My bad, for some reason I incorrectly read this as it took you 45 mins to go from strike to boil. But now I see that temp range only took 20-25 mins AND you were doing 8 gallons. Looks like you were getting a rise of 2 degrees or so per minute with 8 gallons. Ercousin was getting about a rise of 3 degrees with 6 gallons. Seems reasonable.

 

[carlk47]

funny.. 6 gals 120 degrees to boil.... 32 minutes! Exactly the same as ercousin with his bayou classic kettle.

 

[Wynne-R]

Be a little wary of using digital thermometers with induction plates. I have a couple of Thermoworks oven thermometers that flip out near my 1300W units. The pocket models work pretty well, but apparently the shielding on the oven thermometers is inadequate for high EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference).

I emailed Thermoworks, and they said, yeah, sorry, nothing you can do. They were quite nice, but none of their thermometers are rated for high EMI.

So now I’m using a couple of analog lab thermometers.

 

[Photopilot]

I have read this article as I interested in using an induction cook top as my secondary brewing setup. I appreciate the info here but wanted to clarify two posts with misinformation I read on electrical wiring. I am not an electrician but have done extensive wiring and even knew the NEC codes at one point. Double check what I am telling you with an electrician. There is usually one at the Home Depot, he may not work every shift but I have found one at each store to bounce my plans off before wiring anything.

NO! An appliance should never be plugged into an outlet with a higher rating than the appliance. A table lamp may only use half an amp, but the lamps wiring is rated for 15 amps. Plugging the lamp (or your hotplate) into a 50 amp outlet could cause the wiring to catch fire before the fuse or breaker blows if there is some kind of malfunction.

No, but my lay interpretation of NEC 240.5 is that cords for lights/fixtures of 18ga or 16ga can't be on a branch circuit larger than 20A.

For a 40A and 50A circuits looks like the minimum size conductor is 12ga.

The CB is designed to protect the wiring in the wall, because if that catches fire your house may burn down. If a device downstream from an outlet malfunctions and heats up at least the fire is not inside your walls. Lamps may have 16 or 18 gauge wires and be plugged into 20A circuits. There are also a ton of wall warts feeding your electronics running some really tiny wires, maybe 22 or 24 gauge wires and there are no 2A CBs to keep these wires from overheating.

Here is a list of appropriate sized wires based on Amperage need.
http://electrical.about.com/od/wiringcircuitry/a/electwiresizes.htm
While I do not think it will be applicable for most applications here another thing to consider is Voltage drop if you have long runs, you will want to upsize your wire gauge to compensate for this drop.
http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

 

[Photopilot]

I went the spa panel route to be safe.. I plug the spa panel into the dryer outlet in the basement.

View attachment 169652

View attachment 169653

I think the spa panel is a good idea. A GFCI circuit breaker will protect you from a short that is so short in duration that a normal CB may not blow. One thing I would suggest though if you are wiring for an induction cooktop setup and you own your home, is to find a GFCI CB for your type of CB panel and replace it with the same Amperage as the one already in the panel.

There are some advantages to the spa panel in that they are easy to find at the big box stores and sometimes cheaper than a GFCI CB for your panel. It is also nice if you create a control box with the spa panel you are able to move the brewing rig to another location or a friends house to brew. But if you know you are going to brew in the same location, swapping out the CB in your panel for a GFCI can make a cleaner install.

Here’s a company that sells the type of adapter that you’re looking for.

EVSEadapters.com

If you are going to be cooking off the same outlet each time, it might be easier to cut off the plug on the cooktop and replace it with the appropriate plug for your outlet. Take a picture of the outlet with your phone or camera and take it to Home Depot and you should be able to find a matching plug for about $15. If you decide to change location you can swap it out for another plug in about 5 minutes.

 

[whoaru99]

The CB is designed to protect the wiring in the wall, because if that catches fire your house may burn down. If a device downstream from an outlet malfunctions and heats up at least the fire is not inside your walls. Lamps may have 16 or 18 gauge wires and be plugged into 20A circuits. There are also a ton of wall warts feeding your electronics running some really tiny wires, maybe 22 or 24 gauge wires and there are no 2A CBs to keep these wires from overheating.

Here is a list of appropriate sized wires based on Amperage need.
http://electrical.about.com/od/wiringcircuitry/a/electwiresizes.htm
While I do not think it will be applicable for most applications here another thing to consider is Voltage drop if you have long runs, you will want to upsize your wire gauge to compensate for this drop.
http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

You completely misunderstood.

In addition, the wall wart is a irrelevant example because the tiny wires coming out aren't exposed to the potential grunt of the AC mains.

 

[brewguyver]

Be a little wary of using digital thermometers with induction plates. I have a couple of Thermoworks oven thermometers that flip out near my 1300W units. The pocket models work pretty well, but apparently the shielding on the oven thermometers is inadequate for high EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference).

I emailed Thermoworks, and they said, yeah, sorry, nothing you can do. They were quite nice, but none of their thermometers are rated for high EMI.

So now I’m using a couple of analog lab thermometers.

Any issues around PID based controllers and thermocouples? I'm heavily considering switching to a brutus 20 style setup with a RIMS tube. I'm curious if the EMI will throw off the RIMS measurements.

Also - good call to all on the Spa Panel, and on the portability. I'll probably end up going that route. I have a 30 amp wire/breaker that's free, in addition to my dryer outlet that isn't being used. I may just shut it off and reroute to the laundry room so I can do laundry and make beer at the same time.

 

[carlk47]

I'm curious for those using this burner with BIAB.. Have you tried using the temp setting during the mash to maintain temps? Such as setting it to 150 during the mash.. Wondering if I would risk burning the bag if I didn't put a false bottom in the pot?

 

[sammy33]

@carlk47 - I was looking at the Volrath Mirage Pro or Cadet series induction cook tops for this very purpose. The Pro has like 100 power setting and the Cadet has 20. These both seem capable of complex mashing (step mashing, etc.). Both are 1800 watts/ 120v.

The downer is the price! The Cadet is around $220 and the Pro is around $440.

With me doing mostly 2.5g and smaller BIAB batches the 1800w cook tops look like a good fit. The wider temp range starting at 100F points to working well for mashing.

Hmm? Whacha think?

 

[sammy33]

Bump.

 

[carlk47]

@carlk47 - I was looking at the Volrath Mirage Pro or Cadet series induction cook tops for this very purpose. The Pro has like 100 power setting and the Cadet has 20. These both seem capable of complex mashing (step mashing, etc.). Both are 1800 watts/ 120v.

The downer is the price! The Cadet is around $220 and the Pro is around $440.

With me doing mostly 2.5g and smaller BIAB batches the 1800w cook tops look like a good fit. The wider temp range starting at 100F points to working well for mashing.

Hmm? Whacha think?

Are you using BIAB? If so, you should do some thorough reading on the issues people have had with holding temps with adding heat during the mash. From what I've read, the bag acts like a "barrier" and blocks the heated water from entering the bag properly. Most recommend adding a recirculating pump if you are adding heat during the mash.

The first 2 brews I've done on this burner I just set it and forget it.. heated to strike temp, added grain and threw a blanket over the kettle. Temps seems to drop a bit but nothing I stressed over.

Just some food for thought.. also those burners seem like a lot of money imo. I'm real happy with the Advancto burner.

hope this helps

 

[sammy33]

BIAB? Yes.

I think the 1800w Advantco and the 8 gallon Bayou Classic will be a good setup for a 2.5g brewery. Don't know if I will kick myself later for not getting the Mirage Pro (seemingly better temp control) but at $300 less...I like the Advantco!

 

[sumbrewindude]

Sammy33 - are you sure that bayou classic will work? I've read reports saying yes it will vs no it won't. I wish NB would get thier TallBoy kettles back in, supposedly they're induction rated. I'd go with the Advantco too, but I could care less about temp control, you could always BIABAC *and cooler* cheap enough.

I've gone round and round trying to decide if induction is the right way for me to go - I really can't see myself making more than 3.5gal batches, but if the mood hits and I want to make a 5gal batch I know that an 1800W plate won't do it. That moves me to 220V and 3500W, which (incombo with the 10-12gal induction pot) throws me way over budget and sends me to the basement to steal power from the dryer.

I love how simple and compact induction is. I hate the upfront cost. I really hate that my basement has NO VENTILATION.

 

[sammy33]

Not certain if the Bayou Classic will work. The company stated they did in an email and I have seen a couple photos with them on induction burners (thought I saw one in this thread?).

The Tall Boys and the Megapot 1.2 from NB are nice and induction ready! They said end of Feb 2014 initially to get them in stock now the site says October or was I just drunk?

 

[sammy33]

Another thought...wouldn't we need two of these to do a decoction?

Two induction cooktops that is.

 

[ercousin]

Sammy33 - are you sure that bayou classic will work? I've read reports saying yes it will vs no it won't. I wish NB would get thier TallBoy kettles back in, supposedly they're induction rated. I'd go with the Advantco too, but I could care less about temp control, you could always BIABAC *and cooler* cheap enough.

I've gone round and round trying to decide if induction is the right way for me to go - I really can't see myself making more than 3.5gal batches, but if the mood hits and I want to make a 5gal batch I know that an 1800W plate won't do it. That moves me to 220V and 3500W, which (incombo with the 10-12gal induction pot) throws me way over budget and sends me to the basement to steal power from the dryer.

I love how simple and compact induction is. I hate the upfront cost. I really hate that my basement has NO VENTILATION.

I use a 10 gal Bayou Classic on my Avantco 3500. Works fine, been brewing like that for 20 batches now.

 

[sumbrewindude]

Ercousin - well that didn't help at all. What's that noise in the background if you don't mind me asking? Sounds like a fan or something... Seriously awesome to see it boil that amount of water though.

Sammy - A cooler's cheaper than a second pot/induction plate - although for that batch size I'd bet you could get away with a cheapo 1800W induction plate just for the decoction.

Just checked NB for the tallboys, and they're not even on the website now. Odd.

 

[sammy33]

Are you using BIAB? If so, you should do some thorough reading on the issues people have had with holding temps with adding heat during the mash. From what I've read, the bag acts like a "barrier" and blocks the heated water from entering the bag properly. Most recommend adding a recirculating pump if you are adding heat during the mash.

...

I am thinking about a hybrid of the ebiab setup.

Take away the controller and the element and add the induction plate. Keep the pump for re-circulation of the wort. This is what my dream setup would look like. :fro:

 

[ercousin]

Ercousin - well that didn't help at all. What's that noise in the background if you don't mind me asking? Sounds like a fan or something... Seriously awesome to see it boil that amount of water though.

Sammy - A cooler's cheaper than a second pot/induction plate - although for that batch size I'd bet you could get away with a cheapo 1800W induction plate just for the decoction.

Just checked NB for the tallboys, and they're not even on the website now. Odd.

Part of the noise is just buzzing from my phone's microphone. The 3500 does have a fan on it though, and it isn't silent (but not super loud).

 

[carlk47]

I had the same buzzing noise when I took a video of my boil on the 3500. Just interference on the iphone microphone from the burner..

I also liken the fan to the volume of a microwave when it is running. It's not quiet, but not a big deal either


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wobdee]

BIAB? Yes.



I think the 1800w Advantco and the 8 gallon Bayou Classic will be a good setup for a 2.5g brewery. Don't know if I will kick myself later for not getting the Mirage Pro (seemingly better temp control) but at $300 less...I like the Advantco!

I have done many 3 gal BIAB batches with an 1800w induction plate and found the only down side is holding a rolling boil. It just doesn't seem to have enough power to maintain a boil unless you have the lid mostly on. I ended up going back to gas but after reading this thread I may look into the 3500w.


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[sammy33]

wobdee - Thank you for the info, but now I am confused. I thought the 5 gallon brewers were using the 3500 watt units? 1800 watts is not enough for a 2.5g batch to have a decent boil?

What brand/model induction plate do you have?

5 gallon brewers with induction - What wattage are you using and is the boil up to par?

 

[Spartan1979]

Has anybody tried direct heating of a mash tun with induction heating?

 

[wobdee]

Sammy,
I have a Burton 1800w induction plate. You can use it for 2.5 gal batches but in my experience I had to keep the lid about 3/4 on my 8gal Mega pot to maintain a good rolling boil. I also tried insulating the kettle but all I could get was a strong simmer without the lid.

Some say keeping a lid on prevents the escape of DMS during the boil but I never did experience any off tastes. I switched back to gas because it was quicker to boil and I didn't have to worry about the lid and possible DMS.


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[carlk47]

One option if you don't want to wire for 240v is use a 120v 1800w induction burner and also use a heatstick. I have a 1000w heatstick that worked well with my old 2000w kettle


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[wobdee]

After some thought I just purchased the 3500w induction plate. It will be nice to brew in my basement during the Winter without having all my windows open to exhaust CO.

So should I install a 30amp 220-240v breaker with 10-2 wire to run this thing? I want it on its own circuit.


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[sammy33]

I am thinking of going even cheaper as a test. Since I do 2.5g batches I was thinking about getting the Duxtop 1800w for $70 and a 22qt induction ready kettle from Walmart for $60.

This is less than I was going to spend on just a new kettle! If the heating/boil sucks I can return and go with 3500w.

wobdee - Are you an electrician? If you have someone install the 220v outlet for you please let me know what you were quoted $.

 

[AnOldUR]

So should I install a 30amp 220-240v breaker with 10-2 wire to run this thing?

It only draws 16 amps and has a 20 amp plug. I ran 10-2 wire incase I want to upgrade some day, but put a 20 amp receptacle in the wall and a 20 amp breaker in the panel.