Will a mash-out step improve beer flavor?

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grathan

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I've always let my mash drainings cool while collected.

Does anyone think bumping up for alpha rest or doing a mash out step will make a noticeable difference in the finished beer that couldn't be replicated with a single infusion mash?
 
Typically, the most noticeable change you will see with a hotter mash-out temperature is a considerable increase in your extraction efficiency.

The sugars in the mash become more soluble at higher temperatures, so you are getting more of the good-stuff into your run off.
 
In addition to increased extraction, you might see reduced attenuation. Doing a mash out will effectively shorten your mash time. If it is not to much trouble, doing a longer mash and a mash out will give you more control.
 
Will a mash-out step improve beer flavor?
It won't necessarily improve it, but it may change it by producing a less fermentable wort.

I've always let my mash drainings cool while collected.
If you are batch sparging and don't do a mash-out, starting to heat your runnings as soon as they hit the kettle will effectively be your mash-out step. If not conversion may continue until your wort is heated, creating a more fermentable wort.

Does anyone think bumping up for alpha rest or doing a mash out step will make a noticeable difference in the finished beer that couldn't be replicated with a single infusion mash?
If conversion isn't complete during a beta rest, you will change your beer profile by stepping into the alpha enzyme range. A mash-out will not do this. It will stop conversion, locking in what has already been established.
 
I've always mashed at 150-156, depending of the recipe, for 60 minutes then followed with a vorlauf until the wort was cleared and a long lauter into the kettle. I added my first wort hop addition to the kettle and turned the burner on to heat the wort as it was collected. I can't ever recall falling short of my target gravity brewing this way.
 
Mash out was conceived in the decoction method. In the decoction process, a grain bed filter is formed and extract is drawn by fly sparging. Lautering might take a couple of hours, depending on the thickness of the grain bed and mash viscosity. To stop enzymatic activity during lautering, enzymes were thermally denatured.

Using the English method a brewer is limited when it comes to controlling enzymatic action. It is a take what you get process, based on a single conversion temperature, pH stuck on one number, time and whatever the mash thickness is during conversion. When mash out is added to the English process, the hard starch that is stuck in the ends of the husk begins to burst around 169F. The excess starch goes into solution, enzymatic action ceases due to thermal denaturing. Excess starch is washed down the line into the final product. That might not be a problem when the brew goes from boiler to belly in 4 to 6 weeks, but in a lager or pils, excess starch reduces stability, unless it is dealt with upstream. Doing a 10 minute vorlauf with mash at 170F would stretch out the process to 20 minutes. Adding more starch to the solution.

Here's the thing. Depending at what temp was chosen for conversion and for how long the rest would be, will determine how long beta was active. In temp ranges in the low 150s, beta denatures quickly. After beta denatures, alpha continues to create non-fermentable sugar. The action might cause the beer to be imbalanced, finishing at a higher gravity than expected. In that case, mashing out would be a good idea, stopping enzymatic action. Mash out reduces viscosity, which helps when it comes to fly sparging. Mash out is usually done after conversion, but not always. By controlling enzymes the final product will be affected.
 
I've always let my mash drainings cool while collected.

Does anyone think bumping up for alpha rest or doing a mash out step will make a noticeable difference in the finished beer that couldn't be replicated with a single infusion mash?

If you are batch sparging, you will get greater efficiency in your mash if you raise the temperature before draining.

I used to batch sparge with no mashout, draining, then two equal sparges. But stirring in boiling water to raise the temp to 168, drain, then a single batch sparge gets me even higher efficiency with less work. It's due to the higher temp of the grain which washes more sugars during the drain.

I haven't done experiments yet with fly sparging, but I'm certain mashout makes an efficiency difference there as well. Just starting with 168 degree HLT water without a mashout will not get the temp up enough.

I think others covered the other benefits of mashout pretty well.
 
+1 to all of the above but also need to keep in mind, if you do not maintain proper mash pH and sparge with too hot of water you risk extracting tannins and developing astringency in your final product.


Sent from the Commune
 
Batch sparging efficiency is absolutely not influenced by sparge water temperature. I have done extensive experimentation myself on this topic. I almost always sparge with cold water now with zero drop in efficiency. The sugars are converted from starches, it's not granulated sugar that needs to dissolve before it can be run off. The secret is to stir vigorously before draining. I'm guessing that those that thjnk they're seeing a jump in efficiency when doing a mashout are stiring in the mashout water thoroughly when they normally wouldn't do much if any stiring. Mashout gains you nothing when batch sparging, just make sure you stir like mad and you'll get max efficiency.
 
I have done a mash out on my last couple brews. The first one, a Kolsch, has the best malt character I've ever achieved, though I don't really credit the mash out. I did a 3 step infusion mash and saw the mash out as a way to stop my conversion on the dextrine stage so I didn't get too many non fermentable sugars. It definitely worked. I don't think I would do it on a single infusion.
 
I have done a mash out on my last couple brews. The first one, a Kolsch, has the best malt character I've ever achieved, though I don't really credit the mash out. I did a 3 step infusion mash and saw the mash out as a way to stop my conversion on the dextrine stage so I didn't get too many non fermentable sugars. It definitely worked. I don't think I would do it on a single infusion.


Which 3 steps did you use?
 
Mash out was conceived in the decoction method. In the decoction process, a grain bed filter is formed and extract is drawn by fly sparging. Lautering might take a couple of hours, depending on the thickness of the grain bed and mash viscosity. To stop enzymatic activity during lautering, enzymes were thermally denatured.

Using the English method a brewer is limited when it comes to controlling enzymatic action. It is a take what you get process, based on a single conversion temperature, pH stuck on one number, time and whatever the mash thickness is during conversion. When mash out is added to the English process, the hard starch that is stuck in the ends of the husk begins to burst around 169F. The excess starch goes into solution, enzymatic action ceases due to thermal denaturing. Excess starch is washed down the line into the final product. That might not be a problem when the brew goes from boiler to belly in 4 to 6 weeks, but in a lager or pils, excess starch reduces stability, unless it is dealt with upstream. Doing a 10 minute vorlauf with mash at 170F would stretch out the process to 20 minutes. Adding more starch to the solution.

Here's the thing. Depending at what temp was chosen for conversion and for how long the rest would be, will determine how long beta was active. In temp ranges in the low 150s, beta denatures quickly. After beta denatures, alpha continues to create non-fermentable sugar. The action might cause the beer to be imbalanced, finishing at a higher gravity than expected. In that case, mashing out would be a good idea, stopping enzymatic action. Mash out reduces viscosity, which helps when it comes to fly sparging. Mash out is usually done after conversion, but not always. By controlling enzymes the final product will be affected.

That is interesting about the excess starch. It must have more effects than just stability after 4 weeks. Surely flavor would be impacted. Good reason to try a decoction mash I suppose. What method is it you mention for dealing with the starch upstream?
 
Which 3 steps did you use?


Sorry, looking at notes the Kolsch was 2 step plus mash out. The Berliner I just brewed was 3, but it's still fermenting. I did 145 for 45 min, 158 for 30 and a 10 min mash out at 168. That plus a ramping ferment temperature (62 rise to 66 first few days, then rise to 70 for a few more) made some tasty stuff. Just Pilsner and Munich and Chinook.
 
Yeah, it was the first time, but second gen yeast (used for an alt before that). Nice easy brew and it was in the keg at I think 9 days. Tastes great now about two weeks in.
 
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