Why move from BIAB to 3-vessel?

[doug293cz]

Why would someone who does BIAB want to move to 3-vessel?

This poll is for brewers who:

1. Currently do BIAB
2. Have done BIAB before moving to 3-vessel
3. Do both BIAB and 3-vessel

If you have never been a BIABer, please do not take this poll. I'm looking for the opinions of those who have actually done BIAB.

For the purposes of this poll, BIAB means mashing in a bag in the same vessel used for boiling wort, with or without sparging.

I'm curious about what drives the desire to move from BIAB to 3-vessel. Other than decoction mashing, I'm not sure what can't be done with BIAB. I don't know enough about decoction to know whether there are benefits to it that can't be achieved by heating a BIAB mash directly. I thought I wanted to go 3-vessel after seeing some in action for the first time. I went BIAB for my initial foray into all grain, and now see no reason to move to 3-vessel.

However, I have seen posts by BIABers who desire to move to 3-vessel. I'm sure there are people who have actually moved from BIAB to 3-vessel. And, I know there are people who do both BIAB and 3-vessel. So, what are the attractions of 3-vessel vs. BIAB? What are the perceived benefits? I would like to understand all the reasons that people have moved, or are considering moving, to 3-vessel from BIAB. It might help me see things I haven't considered, and hopefully will be useful for other BIABers who are wondering if they should stay with BIAB or move to 3-vessel.

This thread is not intended for debate or proselytizing. Please leave your reasons, and leave it at that. There is no right or wrong here. All opinions about the topic question are valid to those who hold them.

Brew on

 

[mikescooling]

I brew 20 gallons at a time, and sometimes do back to back batches.

 

[TexasWine]

I brew 20 gallons at a time, and sometimes do back to back batches.

Hey Mike. I'm inferring this (20 gallon batches) means that a bag full of wet grains for a batch that size isn't feasible on your set up?

 

[doug293cz]

I brew 20 gallons at a time, and sometimes do back to back batches.

Good point on back to back batches. Mash the second while boiling the first. Hadn't thought of that.

Thanks for posting

 

[skw]

I found BIAB messier than a separate mash tun. Lifting and cleaning a grain bag left me with a sticky floor and hands.

 

[ong]

I do decoctions with BIAB, so that shouldn't be much of an issue. I would upgrade to do bigger batches (I feel like 10 gallons is manageable with BIAB, but north of that would get challenging), or if I wanted more automation. Basically if I wanted more toys to play with. My current method is not very impressive to look at.

 

[jtratcliff]

I've even pulled a decoction from my main BIAB kettle when making Kaiser's Altbier recipe. I do stovetop, so the extra burner was available.

Decoction isn't necessarily a no-go for BIAB

Edit:

D'oh... Ong posted while I was typing otherwise I would just +1'd him

 

[Beernik]

I just moved to keggle BIAB from a cooler MLT and BK. I'm slowly (very slowly) building it up to a HERMS.

I have four reasons:
1) I think I can get better control that way.
2) I want some automation.
3) I want to make my brew day less physical.
4) BIAB seems like it would get impractical between 5 and 10 gallons. And I want the capacity to do 10 gallons.

 

[MrSnacks]

I think the only reason to go to 3 vessel is batch size, and even then I mash in a cooler in a bag, so my 70 quart cooler could probably do 10 gallon batches pretty easily.

 

[4minmile]

I'm in the sticking with the BIAB camp after having spent many a brew day with some 3 vessel friends. I like the convenience/timesavings of the BIAB one pot and done method. The only reason I can imagine personally doing 3 vessel would be larger batches or better efficency on the big IIPAs/RIS type beers....BIAB makes those a bit more challenging.

That being said this might be a good question to throw out on the main All-Grain forum as I don't know how many of them regularly venture into this space...you'll probably get a different flavor of responses out there in the "main-stream" all-grain methodology.

Prost
Michael

 

[billl]

"Other" - because wet grain in a bag is heavy and messy. Love BIAB for low volume/test batches. No worries about dead space etc and cleanup is fast. For anything bigger than that, I'd rather just dump it in a cooler

 

[Beernik]

I do want to say that I did my first two 5 gallon BIABs in my keggle on the same day. It took me about 11 hours, it was a lot of fun, and wasn't overly hard on my back.

The last two beers I did in my cooler MLT felt like a lot of work. I was really getting tired of doing step-infusion mashes that way.

So while my long term plans are going to a three vessel HERMS, I am a proponent of BIAB.

 

[rossi46]

I've had 3, 3 vessel systems. My first was a cooler mlt 3 tier gvavity. My second was a keggle mlt with eRIMS. My third and current is all electric herms. I've done 2 biab in my current kettle, both of which are recipes that I've done several times in the 3v system and cannot tell the difference. I really like the simplicity of biab, so much so I'm building a 102qt eBIAB. I'm not getting rid of the 3v yet, but if i have continued success with the eBIAB I may sooner or later.

 

[DU99]

when i first decided to go all grain i looked at a few method's.3V,Biab,Herms,braumister,and the associated costs and the time it took.even went to a few demo's.for me BIAB was something that suited the space i had and cost wasn't that expensive,for the style of beer i wanted to make

 

[Dolomieu]

Other. Because brewing is brewing.

 

[Riot]

I started doing all grain via BIAB and got sick of the mess I would make dealing with the grain bag. When batches got bigger I pretty much had to get a pulley setup or a mash tun. Once the snow comes I'm probably going back the smaller BIAB gear that my stove can handle.

 

[ericbw]

I use a cooler with a bag in it. I switched to this (instead of the pot) because I had to watch the temp and sometimes heat it up. With a cooler, i just leave it.

I'm planning on installing a screen and maybe eliminating the bag. But that means re-learning what efficiencies I get, etc.

I would still use a bag in one pot for 1 gallon batches on the stove.

 

[geoffey]

I've done 3 vessel eHerms and then moved to single vessel BIAB and then moved to a 2 vessel Blichman Brew Easy clone. My main motivation moving to BIAB was time, it shaved 1.5-2 hrs off my brew day. But I was also having problems with sparging in the 3 vessel system and just wasn't enjoying brew days as much. The move to a 2 vessel system was to get back into a re-circulating setup with some better temp control.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[kh54s10]

Other. I dislike messing with the hot, sticky messy bag of spent grain. I find it easier to carry my mash tun to the compost pile and dump it than to pull the bag, put it in a bucket then carry to the compost then clean the bag (takes much longer to get the husks out of the bag than rinsing the tun) then rinse the bucket.

I built my 3 tier before I tried BIAB (small batch) so I probably will not make a hoist for BIAB etc.

 

[Owly055]

I've been kicking around a reverse circulation system with a grain tube elevated above the brew/boil kettle. The grain tube would be made from a stainless steel pot with an upper and lower screen. This would allow me to set my brews up on a timer. The heat would come on, and when strike temp was reached, the circulation pump would push strike water up through the grain tube, returning it to the brew kettle by gravity in much the same way as the Braumeister. At that point, control would shift from the strike temp control STC -1000 to the mash temp control PID. At the end of the mash an alarm would alert me. At that point it comes off "autopilot", and the boil, chill, transfer, and pitch are in my hands.

While the wort is draining out of the grain tube, back through the pump into the brew kettle, I'm yawning and stretching, and getting my lazy ass out of bed, cranking the heat up under the kettle, putting the coffee on, pushing down the morning wood and draining the night's accumulation, and cracking my first beer of the day, and getting ready to toss in the first hop addition.

The automation in this case can be very simple....... a timer to set the whole process in motion, one temp control to bring the strike water up to temp, another temp control to maintain mash temp, and another timer to time the mash, along with a few relays and an alarm........ No microprocessor, all "hard wired logic". All designed to reduce my brew day to run parallel to breakfast. By the time the breakfast dishes are washed, I'm ready to drop in the immersion chiller, 8 minutes later, dump into the fermenter and pitch.

None of this would be difficult or expensive to build. I've done "hard wired logic" with relays and analog controls all my life, most far more complex than this.


H.W.

 

[Dopeybrew]

Other

I do both. I do traditional 3v when I have time and want to kill a day(usually when the wife is out with friends) or when brewing a higher gravity beer and biab when I make sessions or when time is a factor.

 

[doug293cz]

Bump to see if it will generate a few more responses.

Brew on

 

[Brew_G]

I'm so brand new to brewing (only two batches in) that I'm not even sure how to answer the question other than to say that I can't see a need to do anything other than BIAB. Reasons:

- I like beer, but I don't drink during the week (maybe one here and there on a Wednesday or Thursday), so 5 gallon batches should last me a good amount of time
- My wife doesn't drink much beer at all
- My friends like beer, but we always supply beer for each others' get togethers, so I don't have to be the main supplier
- I don't generally drink big beers, so heavy bags will rarely (if ever) be an issue
- I've already lifted 11.25 lbs of grain soaked with water, and after the initial surprise of how heavy it actually was, I didn't have any problem
- It's simple
- It's inexpensive

That's just my personal take on it, but if any of the above were different, I may think twice about having another setup for certain occasions

 

[wilserbrewer]

Having done both BIAB and 3V brewing, I can say that there isn't really a clear reason to move to 3V unless one wants to. For smaller batches BIAB, say 5G, has advantages for it's simplicity. For larger batches, say 10G to 15G, BIAB gets a bit more complicated as kettle size and grain weights increase. The most often stated reason why people prefer 3V for larger batches are:

1. Weight of bag A simple ratchet pulley hoist can easily handle large 30 plus pound grain bills.

2. BIAB is messy A proper large kettle and a well shaped grain bag can be hoisted and will neatly drain back to the kettle with virtually no mess. After about 30 minutes the bag will be drained, and moved to a large rubbermaid tote http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/i...12-Blue-Mist-Tote-Box/_/N-2pqfZ67l/R-I4411005 placed adjacent and below the kettle to avoid any drips on the floor. I BIAB in a carpeted finished basement with virtually no spills, if you are making a mess BIABing, you are IMO doing something wrong.

3. Sticky Hot wort Squeezing and touching the bag is unnecessary. With BIAB, all that needs to be done is to hoist the bag and let gravity drain it to the kettle below. Sure folks are amazed at how much wort can be squeezed from a bag immediately after it is removed from the kettle. Squeezing only gives is a false sense of achievement, gravity will drain the bag very well if one can exercise a little patience. If your hands are touching a hot sticky mess, you are doing something wrong IMHO.

4. Moving water vs. moving spent grain W/ BIAB, all that needs to be done is to make one lift of the spent grain, not easy, but really not all that difficult. W/ 3V brewing, one must consider the large volumes that need to be moved about during the brewing process, creating the need for either a tiered rig or pumps. I tried a tiered rig and found it most inconvenient, and have since resorted to simply moving sparge water with a one gallon pitcher, just easier and faster for me. I have no desire to complicate my process with pumps, the cleaning and set up / break down of pumps IMHO is more work then they save, unless of course batch size becomes very large, say over 1B. With BIAB your entire batch volume can start out waist high and remain at that level, with a mash tun one must incorporate a vertical drop in the process, which often results in either a higher stand, or lifting the full kettle when done.

For those looking to larger batches, I feel BIAB is a viable option. Having done several 15 gallon batches, both BIAB and 3V, neither is "easy", but I have found if one masters the simple process of hoisting a grain bag, the BIAB process is actually easier and less messy than 3V.

All that said, I recently sold several very large bags to a small craft brewer, utilizing BIAB for a 3B, 130 gallon kettle and also 55 gal Blichmann kettles utilizing an electric hoist for grain bag removal. Hoping to post his success w/ the BIAB method in another thread.

Cheers!
wilser

 

[PhilM]

Well, I currently BIAB, and I plan on upgrading to a three vessel system.

First off, some background. I've been homebrewing since January 2014, though I've wanted to brew for even longer than that. I go through a considerable amount of beer. My wife and I both enjoy a beer with dinner, and we regularly entertain friends who enjoy my homebrew. As a result, I've brewed 19 batches so far this year, with 15 of them being BIAB.

I have two main reasons why I'd rather get a three-vessel system instead of a larger BIAB system.

First is that while I don't mind scrubbing steel kettles, I hate rinsing that bag. It's not a difficult process, sure, but it's a long process. Right now my typical brewday is usually two, sometimes three batches. That makes for a lot of time bent over the sink rinsing spent grain bits off of the bag.

Second is water chemistry. I have incredibly hard water, and full-volume BIAB-type mashes need help to get to the proper pH levels. Yes, I can buy buffers and compounds to get the desired pH levels, but that's just another thing I have to buy that isn't malt or hops. Sure, three vessel brewing may need some of this as well, but it should be less. (at least in theory.)

Third reason is a personal one. I'm a technician by trade, and an engineering student. I enjoy science and engineering, but not in my beer. Sure, some science is required, but I don't want it to rule my brewing. I just want to come up with a recipe, brew it in a traditional way, and be done. BIAB is forcing me to get really scientific with my beer to overcome some of the hurdles it presents.

Maybe that's an unrealistic goal. Currently BIAB better fits my lifestyle, since I live in a condo and space is limited. But sooner or later I'm going to switch over to a traditional three vessel system.

 

[HolmA]

A 3-vessel system is not the only other option? I'd be up for changing to any economic system that allows for a more controllable mash temperature potentially involving multiple steps.

 

[soccerdad]

I am one of the 74% (current tally) that is happy with BIAB, but I would rethink if I started doing 10 to 15 G batches and/or brewing outdoors. But for what I do now, BIAB is the shizz.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I do BIAB and would not consider batches larger than 10 gallon without a hoist.

 

[RM-MN]

Well, I currently BIAB, and I plan on upgrading to a three vessel system.

First off, some background. I've been homebrewing since January 2014, though I've wanted to brew for even longer than that. I go through a considerable amount of beer. My wife and I both enjoy a beer with dinner, and we regularly entertain friends who enjoy my homebrew. As a result, I've brewed 19 batches so far this year, with 15 of them being BIAB.

I have two main reasons why I'd rather get a three-vessel system instead of a larger BIAB system.

First is that while I don't mind scrubbing steel kettles, I hate rinsing that bag. It's not a difficult process, sure, but it's a long process. Right now my typical brewday is usually two, sometimes three batches. That makes for a lot of time bent over the sink rinsing spent grain bits off of the bag.

Second is water chemistry. I have incredibly hard water, and full-volume BIAB-type mashes need help to get to the proper pH levels. Yes, I can buy buffers and compounds to get the desired pH levels, but that's just another thing I have to buy that isn't malt or hops. Sure, three vessel brewing may need some of this as well, but it should be less. (at least in theory.)

Third reason is a personal one. I'm a technician by trade, and an engineering student. I enjoy science and engineering, but not in my beer. Sure, some science is required, but I don't want it to rule my brewing. I just want to come up with a recipe, brew it in a traditional way, and be done. BIAB is forcing me to get really scientific with my beer to overcome some of the hurdles it presents.

Maybe that's an unrealistic goal. Currently BIAB better fits my lifestyle, since I live in a condo and space is limited. But sooner or later I'm going to switch over to a traditional three vessel system.

Yes, I hate that rinsing the bag, all 30 seconds of it. I dump the bag, turn it inside out and give it a good shake to get rid of most of the grains, turn it back right side out and shake it again. Drop it into warm water in the sink, lift it out and squeeze it, drain the sink and put in a bit of fresh water and dunk the bag again and squeeze out the excess and then hang it. Still some grain particles? Forget them.

I have very hard water too and it's so difficult to put in a teaspoon of acid blend to get it to the proper pH in the mash. I stir it in when I'm stirring in the grains.

I think you are making your brew day much more difficult than necessary.:cross:

 

[PhilM]

Any shaking prior to rinsing it tends to send sticky wort everywhere lol. I usually just dump the grain, rinse it once to get most of the rest of the grain out, then turn it inside out. All while trying to keep the residual spent grain contained to the small sink in a galley kitchen. And no, I don't get every piece out lol.

If I had a larger kitchen sink, or a utility sink, sure, it would probably be faster/easier to deal with. Perhaps the material the bags are made from makes a difference in ease of cleaning as well.

All this being said, the lack of space is why I went with BIAB. Much easier to clean a bag than a mash tun that might not even fit in the sink.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Well, I currently BIAB, and I plan on upgrading to a three vessel system.

First off, some background. I've been homebrewing since January 2014, though I've wanted to brew for even longer than that. I go through a considerable amount of beer. My wife and I both enjoy a beer with dinner, and we regularly entertain friends who enjoy my homebrew. As a result, I've brewed 19 batches so far this year, with 15 of them being BIAB.

I have two main reasons why I'd rather get a three-vessel system instead of a larger BIAB system.

First is that while I don't mind scrubbing steel kettles, I hate rinsing that bag. It's not a difficult process, sure, but it's a long process. Right now my typical brewday is usually two, sometimes three batches. That makes for a lot of time bent over the sink rinsing spent grain bits off of the bag.

Second is water chemistry. I have incredibly hard water, and full-volume BIAB-type mashes need help to get to the proper pH levels. Yes, I can buy buffers and compounds to get the desired pH levels, but that's just another thing I have to buy that isn't malt or hops. Sure, three vessel brewing may need some of this as well, but it should be less. (at least in theory.)

Third reason is a personal one. I'm a technician by trade, and an engineering student. I enjoy science and engineering, but not in my beer. Sure, some science is required, but I don't want it to rule my brewing. I just want to come up with a recipe, brew it in a traditional way, and be done. BIAB is forcing me to get really scientific with my beer to overcome some of the hurdles it presents.

Maybe that's an unrealistic goal. Currently BIAB better fits my lifestyle, since I live in a condo and space is limited. But sooner or later I'm going to switch over to a traditional three vessel system.

BIAB doesn't HAVE to be full volume. You can use typical mash ratio if you want then sparge. There's just doesn't seem to be a necessity since there's no stuck sparges and it offers higher efficiency.



I BIAB due to space constraint, ease of use, lower cost, and it seems easier and quicker. Really I don't get the appeal of a traditional mash tun.

 

[bondra76]

I have the goal of switching to a 3 vessel system for the following reasons:

1) I want to build towards automation. With my current BIAB I am spending all day in the garage and I'm not a big fan of that.

2) I want electric eventually (I know I could do with BIAB if I really wanted to, but it kind of goes along with #1 and #3)

3) I want better mash temps. I have a pretty thick vessel and a propane burner. I've noticed wild varying temperatures depending on where in the pot I am taking a temperature reading from. I decided I needed some circulation in there, which prompted me to buy a march pump. Then I started to read about Herms, and now I want a 3 vessel.

4) I am always looking to improve my process and I have the extra $$$ to put towards it incrementally. Might as well try the 3 vessel. It seems like I am pretty much headed there anyhow (which I'm not resistant to at all)

 

[RM-MN]

If you're spending all day in the garage with your BIAB you're probably doing something wrong. Try another batch but get your grains milled really fine. Cut your mash to 20 minutes and insulate the pot during that time. The shorter mash time plus insulation should keep your mash temperature pretty constant. I can whip out a 5 gallon batch on my kitchen stove which has less heating power than your propane burner in less than 3 hours, including the cooling it a tub of water.

When you add your grains, use a stiff wire whisk to break up the dough balls and get a good mix because that good mix will get you the same temperature throughout the mash. Put the extra $$$ toward more grain. Grain makes beer, not the shiny gear.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

I came very close to just skipping the poll and moving on, because honestly, I'm tired of "BIAB Evangelists" who never tire of arguing their points ad nauseam, and digress from whether it's possible to make great beer with BIAB (it is) to whether it's better for making great beer, to why no-chill is the way to go, to 20 minute mashes, to squeeze or no squeeze, to powdered grain, to stupid 3-vessel brewers who waste all that money buying shiny gear (on a HOBBY) yada yada yada. It's similar to the batch-sparge vs. continuous-sparge debates of 15-20 years ago.

But since I'm among the few people who brew both ways, I'd thought I'd go ahead and bite on the hook and answer the question. Then I'll unsubscribe from the thread, because, as you can see from the thread, it isn't enough for some people to just express their opinion, but they have to debate and rebut any differing opinion (which is fine, once, but never ends for some).

So first, some background: I started with extract in '96, switched to all-grain in '98, brewing 3-vessel, gravity fed, continuous sparge in a Gott cooler with a plastic false bottom (oh the debates - braid, bottom or manifold). Only the rich kids had pumps, and no one batch sparged. I took a forced hiatus from making beer in 2008, 2009 and 2010. I started over in 2011, making my keggle boil kettle again, and started gathering the parts to build my new system. Having done it once, I wanted to build my "dream system". I'm a DIY kinda guy, not really interested (or competent) in electric automation, but I knew I liked having a lot of flexibility, I like putting wort into my fermentor rather than trub, I liked the idea of being able to pump when necessary (when chilling, pumping through a hop-back, whatever) and I just like the process.
Then this year I was hired to teach a homebrewing class at a local community college. I thought about how to approach it for quite a while, even asking opinions here. Michael "Mufasa" Ferguson of BJ's is an advocate of starting brewers off with all grain right from the start, skipping extracts all together. When I thought about how to teach it, I realized that the difference between steeping specialty grains was not that far off from BIAB mashing, so I decided to put together a 10 gallon BIAB pot, and give it a whirl. Got a bag and a winch from Wilserbrewer, made some insulation from Reflectix and bubble wrap, and made a 5.5 gallon batch of Janet's Brown. At 9.25 gallons, it maxed out the pot, but I loved the simplicity of the process. Initially I planned to sell off the equipment after teaching the class, but they re-upped my contract, and I decided I liked the flexibility of brewing either way, so I'm keeping it. If I would change any one thing, it would be to have a 15 gallon pot instead of a 10, so I could have a little more wiggle room on high gravity beers.

So I've only done a few (6?) BIAB batches so far, and since I did the first batch, I've only made a few changes. First, I added a ball valve to the kettle with an elbow on the inside. After the boil, I immersion chill, whirlpool, and let it settle for 20-30 minutes. I end up with 1+ gallons of trub between the fines from the grain, the hot & cold break, and the hops. But the valve makes it easier to leave it all behind, because I can adjust the flow slow enough to not suck up as much of the trub, which the autosiphon was not as effective at doing. I also added an angle iron frame to my burner to suspend the pulley from so that I can lift my bag and let it drain. Yes, still squeezing (which adds more of the fines that I'm trying to avoid), but since I only have a 10-gallon pot, I can get my gravities and volumes more easily this way.

Okay, so now for some of the differences.
1) When I'm using 3-vessel, I leave more of what I don't want in my fermentor behind in the BK and MLT more easily than with BIAB.
2) When I want to do color extraction, I can use a coffee grinder to mill my roast grains, sprinkle them on top of the mash at the beginning of the sparge, and let the sparge extract the color. With BIAB, it requires some kind of mixing.
3) 3-Vessel - last three batches, 92% conversion/lautering efficiency, with BIAB last three 76% (even with double milling). Important? Maybe. The sugars left behind vs. the sugars extracted - do they ferment or taste different? I did a side by side, and the BIAB was noticeably sweeter, maltier and had more body. But with so many variables, I can't say it was BIAB that made the difference.
4) 3-Vessel - way more cleaning, much messier, but can be done as I brew, so by the time I'm done, all that is left to clean is the kettle and the CFC. BIAB - way less cleaning, way easier to get rid of the grain, clean one valve, pot and bag.
5) 3-Vessel - about an hour longer.

There will likely be other things I will think of as the day and weeks go by, but those are the ones that stick out at the moment.

So for now I'll keep doing both, but in my class, and to anyone who will listen, I'm saying start with BIAB, and only switch if you want to learn something new. Had I started with BIAB, I may not have ever switched to 3-vessel, because the differences would likely not have been worth the costs.

Brew On, Brothers and Sisters!

 

[doug293cz]

I came very close to just skipping the poll and moving on, because honestly, I'm tired of "BIAB Evangelists" who never tire of arguing their points ad nauseam, and digress from whether it's possible to make great beer with BIAB (it is) to whether it's better for making great beer, to why no-chill is the way to go, to 20 minute mashes, to squeeze or no squeeze, to powdered grain, to stupid 3-vessel brewers who waste all that money buying shiny gear (on a HOBBY) yada yada yada. It's similar to the batch-sparge vs. continuous-sparge debates of 15-20 years ago.

But since I'm among the few people who brew both ways, I'd thought I'd go ahead and bite on the hook and answer the question. Then I'll unsubscribe from the thread, because, as you can see from the thread, it isn't enough for some people to just express their opinion, but they have to debate and rebut any differing opinion (which is fine, once, but never ends for some).

Black Island: Don't know if you're still monitoring the thread, but thanks for the thoughtful comments. This is just the type of discussion I was hoping to generate with this poll.

Brew on

 

[m00ps]

WHen I started brewing, i was doing all-grain 3 gal BIAB batches. I figured my stove could not handle getting the 6-7gals needed for 5gal into the fermentor to a rolling boil. Once I found out I could, I completely threw out my intention of moving to traditional 3 vessel. Its so so so nice and easy to have only a single vessel to clean and not have to take up so much precious space in my apt with equipment. Pus, no worry about a stuck sparge, ever. I've heard people say the efficiency is low, but I'm always 70-75% which seems normal. I've seen a lot of people with efficiency below 60% doing 3 vessel anyway

BIAB all the way!

 

[jahdub]

BIAB is so easy. It is cheaper to get a bag + 1 huge kettle than mash vessels. Maintaining mash temp doesn't mean much if you've got a fine enough grind that conversion happens quickly. I don't think I'd go to a 2-3 vessel system unless I needed to brew commercial-sized batches of beer.

 

[jtratcliff]

2) When I want to do color extraction, I can use a coffee grinder to mill my roast grains, sprinkle them on top of the mash at the beginning of the sparge, and let the sparge extract the color. With BIAB, it requires some kind of mixing.

Not sure why you can't do this unless you insist on doing full volume BIAB, no sparge. If you do a modified BIAB with sparge, should be the same.

Otherwise, I think I agree with everything you said, even though I've never done 3-vessel brewing

 

[OleGoatBrewing]

I've evolved from a extract/BIAB/Batch Sparge beginning. I went from that to a 3V AG single tier system as my knowledge about brewing grew.

If you go 3V you'll need to decide on a single tier or multi-tier. I'll say single tier is a little more expensive because you do need at least one pump to move liquids. And when you have a pump it makes sense to leverage a the utility of a plate chiller, cam locks...and $o on and $o on (it gets expensive).

Using a multi-tier system is a little cheaper, but you can't move liquid back up without a pump. So a pump not required, but nice to have. I personally like to do a vorlouf at the end of my mash for certain beers and a system with a pump allows that (ether single or multi).

The real reason is I moved to a 3V system is I'm working towards a electric HERMS. HERMS is a whole other topic on itself, but by going this route it allows me to brew now and build toward that in the future. I also liked the idea of being able to see all my kettles at eye level.

As far as taste I can't say. I've liked all but one of my beers I've ever made regardless of how it was brewed. If your happy with the beer you make stay with what you have. If you want to have more flexibility with your brew system then expand. Good beer is made 1000 different ways!

 

[doug293cz]

Two days left to vote and/or comment in this poll. If you have an opinion to offer, do it now. And thanks to all those who took time to leave thoughtful comments.

Brew on