Why doesn’t everyone BIAB?

[Blazinlow86]

Very nice pictures of very clear beers, people. I’m impressed and now a bit intrigued.

Are you doing anything extra for your clarity, like irish moss or whirlfloc at the end of the boil or isinglass or gelatin in your secondary? Are you finding with no sparge biab that none of this is necessary?

Yes, I guess I had assumed there is “one way” to biab. As everyone describes soaking their bag and then draining it over the kettle via pulley or some other mechanism. And I guess I had assumed that cloudy wort in the fermenter would equal cloudy beer in the glass. I guess I’m a bit of a hard head as I have been brewing for over 20 years. Long before biab came along. And these are things we were “taught”.

I do have a bag, but I use it in conjunction with a dedicated mash tun which has a stainless false bottom. Like others said, I found the extra layer of filtration keeps even the slightest bits of grain from getting under the false bottom and it does make cleanup much quicker and easier.

I don’t go through a large amount of beer quickly these days, so I’ve taken to doing 3 gallon batches - which certainly seems like a decent size for biab. I may give it a shot soon and see for myself firsthand.

While I've never really tested it I imagine the clearer your wort into the fermentor the faster your end product will clear. When using my traditional mash setup, whirlpooling, fining, and sometimes gelitine in the unitank I can produce a pretty clear finished product that doesn't leave sediment in the kegs in less than 2 weeks even when dryhopping etc. If I use the simpler biab, carboy setup on the stovetop it can take much longer to clear and requires the kegs to be left undisturbed to avoid kicking up the sediment. Cheers

 

[Amadeo38]

Didn’t get a chance to scroll through all the pages of this thread, so not sure if my comment is unique... My reason for not BIAB is because it rose in popularity after I had already spent a bunch of money on hardware like ball valves, pumps, false bottom, lautering and sparging manifold, camlocks with high temp tubing, etc. I guess you’d call it a sunk cost fallacy mixed with stubbornness, since my buddy brews BIAB with me and I see how quick and easy it is. But hey, I get 80-85% efficiency so I guess there’s that?

 

[LittleRiver]

...My reason for not BIAB is because it rose in popularity after I had already spent a bunch of money on hardware...a sunk cost fallacy mixed with stubbornness...

I think a lot of folks are in that same camp: been brewing for a long time, have gear they like (and is paid for), and don't fancy trying a different technique. Nothing wrong with that.

...But hey, I get 80-85% efficiency so I guess there’s that?

I get the same with my single vessel BIAB rig.

I guess that just leaves you with the stubbornness.

 

[RM-MN]

But hey, I get 80-85% efficiency so I guess there’s that?

Dang, I don't think I have had that low of efficiency since my second batch with BIAB. Nothing wrong with your method, nothing wrong with those numbers either, just yanking your chain. I do love being able to whip out a batch in less than 4 hours but that's because I have other things that I want or need to do.

 

[bwible]

I do love being able to whip out a batch in less than 4 hours but that's because I have other things that I want or need to do.

+1 on “already spent a bunch of money on hardware”. In a poker game, its called being “pot committed.”

I’m usually at right about 5 hrs including cleanup with my 2 vessel system, which consists of my brewpot and mash tun cooler. I do not use a hot water tank since moving to 3 gallon batches, haven’t found a need for one. I heat mash water in the pot, mash in the cooler. Heat sparge water in the pot again and batch sparge. Recirculate til clear, collect in the now empty pot and boil. I’m getting away with this because I’m doing 3 gallon batches with a 5 gallon cooler. Most of the time I’m looking at no more than 7 or 8 pounds of grain unless I’m doing something real special.

I just bought an Anvil pump that I have not set up yet. I have been recirculating manually with a couple of pitchers til now. I think the pump is going to reduce my time a little more over manually recirculating.

Most of the time spent brewing is spent waiting for something... Mash and sparge water takes time to heat up. Mashing usually takes an hour. Boil takes another hour. I haven’t found a way around that. So I try to economize time by doing things concurrently, like grinding grain after putting the mash water on, and heating sparge water after I mash in while the mash is still happening. And I can also clean my fermenter and put star san in it to soak during the hour mash as well. Then after I collect the wort, I can clean and rinse the mash tun and dispose of grain while I’m waiting for the wort to boil, using additional time after the first hop addition if I need to. Again, the bag makes that easy. By the time I’m cooling and transferring to the fermenter to pitch yeast, all thats left to clean is the brew pot, chiller and spoon.

Though this sounds like alot, I still spend much of the brewing time standing around waiting....

 

[Amadeo38]

Though this sounds like alot, I still spend much of the brewing time standing around waiting....

Ditto on 5-hour brew day with two-vessel system. BIAB seems to save on cleaning in addition to shortening the actual brew time.

And yes, the addition of a pump will save you a little bit of effort and maybe a little time, but it mostly just makes it a newly added “stand around and wait” period. I usually clean during the down time, and if nothing can be cleaned, I go inside to the air-conditioning and wait for the next step!

 

[Mic Carp]

You'll need a hoist!

Im building a hoist this weekend. I have about 15 4x4's needing a job. From the sound of things, BIAB seems easier even than LME with specialty steeping grains.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Im building a hoist this weekend. i have about 15 4x4's needing a job. I'll be brewing the last 2 extract kits I found in the cooler at the same time. from the sound of things, BIAB seems easier even than LME with specialty steeping grains. I can't wait to BIAB.

It's a great upgrade. Plus if you buy a mill you can buy bulk base malt for a considerable savings. Cheers

 

[Mic Carp]

She ain’t to pretty, but that’s what happens when you reclaim 4x4s for the 3rd or 4th time haha

 

[dano]

She ain’t to pretty, but that’s what happens when you reclaim 4x4s for the 3rd or 4th time hahaView attachment 624217

Looks like a repurposed trebuchet!!!!

 

[bendog15]

She ain’t to pretty, but that’s what happens when you reclaim 4x4s for the 3rd or 4th time hahaView attachment 624217

That’s awesome! She aughtta hold a bag o’grains no prob. I use scrap wood and pallets for a lot of home projects!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

OK, I just read through all ten pages of this thread, so I feel justified in giving an essay for a response.....my reasons to answer the OP are as follows:
I started out, as many did, with a cooler and 12" braid, draining by gravity into a boil kettle. It worked well, but I like to tinker and make things, so I built a 3v system (technically 2 vessel, as was pointed out earlier, the HLT doesn't count) out of parts I had lying around (I'm fortunate to have several decommissioned 50L kegs lying around). It worked well also. Then I tried BIAB (for simplicity). Then I tried single vessel no-sparge direct heat mash tun. Then I build a new HERMS. Now I have a 2-vessel RIMS (I use tap water to sparge). It's all home-made using junk or cheap parts, and would cost far less in total than some of the fancy/shiny 'bling' eBIAB systems I've seen. My first comment is that the beer tastes the same from all systems (no side-by-side testing, but no noticeable differences). I like things about all the systems I've tried. Why don't I use the BIAB setup? Firstly, I can't do back-to-back brews as easily (without adding a second vessel, which defeats the purpose); secondly, there's no reason to use it over what I'm using now. I'll pose a question - why BIAB? Space is a valid reason (doesn't affect me); cheap, easy and simple to start if you don't have lots of stuff lying around (doesn't affect me); easier to brew in the kitchen (I'm not allowed to brew in the house anyway...); I can't think of any others. I haven't had a stuck sparge in at least two years. My favourite system was probably the Cooler mash tun - simple and effective. I'd use it again now but my cooler (which again I already had - no purchase needed) can only do 5 gallon batches and I don't want to buy a bigger one for the up to 15 gallon batches I brew (they're very expensive in Australia). The single vessel direct heat no sparge is the only method I wouldn't repeat - there was no time saving (the wort still has to all come to a boil) and efficiency was poor.

Some things that annoy me a bit with this thread:
1. The perception that 3v (in my case 2v) is fancy/expensive/shiny/sexy.....again, some of the eBIAB systems look far more 'blingy' than my homemade setup and any basic cooler setup. BIAB and 3v systems can be simple/homemade or expensive and shiny.
2. That 3v systems are time consuming to clean (including the need to 'scoop out' a mash tun). I carry my mash-tun outside, dump the grain, give it a quick hose out with a pressure cleaner (permanently set up) then put it away. All up, about 3 minutes (surely no different to dumping a bag of grains, then hosing the bag out). Then the boil kettle is the same with either system. By the way, any BIABers who use a dunk sparge are really using a '2v' system anyway!
3. That 3v systems take longer to brew on. It just doesn't (at least IME). It's about the same.

Anyone who says that BIAB is inferior and/or doesn't produce beer that is just as good, is wrong (I'm sure BIAB brewers hear that a bit). But suggesting that 2v is inferior/more expensive/more time consuming/messier is also plain wrong. As the saying goes, there are more ways than one to skin a cat.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

You are right.
If someone wants to buy a much more expensive 3vessel system

Given the initial price of the equipment and the ingredients I think that BIAB is the best.

Sorry to break it to you, but your spike brewing kettle alone cost more than the entire 3v system I began brewing with (assuming you bought it new)! I think you might have the impression that 3v systems are all high-tech, shiny, expensive stainless models. They aren't.

(My apologies if it wasn't you with the spike kettle...I've lost track a bit of who had what....).

 

[Ninoid]

Sorry to break it to you, but your spike brewing kettle alone cost more than the entire 3v system I began brewing with (assuming you bought it new)! I think you might have the impression that 3v systems are all high-tech, shiny, expensive stainless models. They aren't.

(My apologies if it wasn't you with the spike kettle...I've lost track a bit of who had what....).

I have made the kettle similar as in this video and I do mash and boil in it.
Is not sophisticated but work well. Current 29. batch.

 

[BenS]

I'm sure it's been said before but I prefer brewing lagers and my 4v 15 gal system can turn out 10 gal high gravity decoction mashed batches at 85-90% mash efficiency. Simply can't be done on biab.

 

[Mic Carp]

That’s awesome! She aughtta hold a bag o’grains no prob. I use scrap wood and pallets for a lot of home projects!
View attachment 624324View attachment 624325

Nice work!
I like the look of repurposed wood and for a time had a lot of access through work. Unfortunately they are staying on top of disposal now. So the picking is slim. But I still have some good leftovers. Now if i just had a decent work space and tools ( instead of banquet tables and a sawzall) haha

 

[BarleyStanding]

This implies that there is only 1 way to BIAB, which is just wrong. There are plenty of us who BIAB and/or recirculate and/or sparge.

I also call BS on not ending up with a clear beer. Total and complete BS.

That's the beauty of it, so many different ways to go about it. I BIAB mash in approximately 80% of my total pre-boil water volume and then rinse the grain bag with the last 20% room temp water to top up before the boil. I usually get around 70-75% efficiency, but I've never focused too narrowly on that number, so it may not be that accurate anyway. The beer tastes great and clears well. Lots of ways to brew good beer!

 

[Morrey]

+1 on “already spent a bunch of money on hardware”. In a poker game, its called being “pot committed.”

+2...like your logic.

I wish I had all the $$ back for stuff sitting idle as I expanded and enlarged my gear. BUT - I was willing to do this and not stress over making the upgrades. Brewing is one of my main hobbies and I don't begrudge the investments of nice equipment. One day I'll have a yard sale OR teach someone to brew and sell THEM my stuff that I've outgrown.