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JeffoC6
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I don't bottle with growlers...Not sure where this info came from
Why do I continue to have inconsistent carbonation?
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I don't bottle with growlers...Not sure where this info came from
My process is very similar to yours, except I am 5 gallons and usiing a bottling bucket, and carbination has been pretty inconsistant. Most bottles come out great but a couple fall flat.
On my last batch I numbered the caps as I filled them so I could see if the poorly carbed beers were at the beginning or end, which might give a clue. I saw on another thread that a guy is using a syringe to measure his liquified priming sugar into each bottle. I'm seriously considering this.
On my last batch I numbered the caps as I filled them so I could see if the poorly carbed beers were at the beginning or end, which might give a clue. I saw on another thread that a guy is using a syringe to measure his liquified priming sugar into each bottle. I'm seriously considering this.
He was referring to the guy who recommended you just bottle into 2 big growlers.
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JeffoC6
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Interesting. So he's literally "injecting" the priming sugar solution into each bottle, then racking the beer into the bottles ontop of it?
I like that idea very much.
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JeffoC6
Well-Known Member
I
I'd like to revisit this post, and would ask for one of the veterans in here to maybe offer some help.
It seems to me like what I'm describing is this:
ASTRINGENT
CHARACTERISTICS: Unlike bitterness, astringency is present as a stimulation of the nerve endings throughout the mouth. It is not an aroma. The taste is a puckering, dry, unpleasant situation. It is a very acidic, tannic, tart sensation reminiscent of grape skins.
CAUSES: Bacterial contamination (lactobacillus and acetobacter); added astringency from grains or hops.
PROCESS: Caused by: poor sanitation; excessive hopping; excessive wort attenuation (small dextrin content) giving greater perception of astringent; boiling grains; excessive grain crushing; too high a lauter run-off temperature (170 degrees max); to much run-off in lautering; letting beer sit too long on trub; non-blowoff primary fermentation; alkaline mash or runoff water; too much sulfate, magnesium or iron; excessively high acidity.
REDUCTION: Process changes to eliminate the above. Crack grain properly, watch mash/runoff pH, 170 degrees maximum for lauter runoff water, use blowoff fermentation; good sanitation practice.
EXAMPLES: Young wine and grape skins; blowout from primary fermentation.
I'm very careful with sanitizing, however, there is 1 thing that I do that may be causing me problems. Since I only brew 1 gallon batches, I value my hydrometer samples, and therefore, pour them GENTLY back into my beer. I oftentimes try to pour it gently against the glass of the carboy so it drizzles down in, rather than splashing. However, I've read that oxidation tastes like wet cardboard, and I've never experienced that flavor. So is pouring the hydrometer sample back in really causing an astringent off flavor?
The only other thing I could see is that since I'm only doing 1 gallon batches, and leaving ALL of my beers on the yeast for a minimum of 3 weeks. Per the above, it says under "Process"- "letting the beer sit too long on trub." Maybe because my batches are so small, 3 weeks is too long, and it's causing this flavor?
I can't think of anything else. I use bottled spring water. My kettle is cleaned with a soft sponge (stainless steel kettle). I use spring water for my priming sugar.
While I still do have inconsistent carbonation, my plan is to use the syringe idea previously mentioned. I think I'm going to make my priming sugar water as always, then measure out how much of it I have. Then I'm going to divide it by 9 (the normal amount of beers I get out of my batches), and use that measurement to fill each bottle with priming sugar water before I rack to each bottle. Once capped, I'll turn them upside down a few times to have everything mix in. This will assure equal distribution of priming sugar.
I HOPE to eliminate that issue, but now I'm wondering about this astrigency thing. However, several people have told me that overcarbonation can lead to "carbonic bite," which could also be what I'm experiencing.
Would appreciate any thoughts...Thank you!
You might consider investing in a refractometer. You have to plug your readings into some software to account for alcohol but it only uses 2 drops, taking away one more possible problem.
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JeffoC6
Well-Known Member
Anyone else mind weighing in on my prior post (post #85)?
RCCOLA
Well-Known Member
Could be several things.
Hop astringency: High amts of hops can add astringency
Hop quality: Old hops can suck the life out of a beer leaving it vegetal and lifeless--especially when dry-hopped with
The water profile of the spring water could raise your mash pH and add astringency and seltzer taste if it's high in bicarbonate
You could be introducing bacteria with saving the hydro samples--stop doing that--drink the sample
Are your thermometers calibrated? 32F in icewater, 100F checked against an oral thermometer, 212 (or altitude corrected) boiling temp. High sparge temps can leach tannins from the grain husks.
Sanitation: My beer touches nothing that is not wet with starsan
I was referring to the swing-type growlers, which can be used to bottle with. The screw-on type are not what I was recommending.
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JeffoC6
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So I've taken some tips from this thread and have come up with a plan to eliminate any potential for future inconsistent carbonation.
I purchased a syringe yesterday at the store. Again, since I only do 1 gallon batches, I normally finish with 9 full beers and a 10th beer that's about 1/4-3/4 full.
I plan on filling my pyrex measuring cup with the weighed out priming sugar (using tastybrew's calculator), and then pouring boiling water into the measuring cup to about the half cup line, and stir the priming sugar until its dissolved. Then, I will add another half cup of boiling water, bringing me to 1 full cup of priming sugar solution.
From there, I will empty out the Starsan from each of my 10 bottles, and then fill the first 9 bottles with 24 ML of the priming sugar solution. I just attempted this process and found that using this amount for each of the first 9 bottles will leave me with approximately 8.6 ML of priming sugar left for the 10th bottle, which is normally filled up about 1/4-3/4 of the way.
This process will guarantee that I have the exact same amount of priming sugar solution in each bottle.
I have also planned to only cold crash moving forward for 24 hours maximum. I'm wondering if cold crashing longer than that has led to me having too much yeast dropping out of suspension.
If this bottle priming process does not work, I then can at least focus on potential infection, and how to eliminate it
Would love to hear someone weigh in on this.
***As an anecdote for this problem I've been having...Yesterday, I took the largest mug in the house I could find. I boiled a very small amount of water (just enough to cover the bottom of a pot) and dissolved sugar in it). I then let it cool as I normally do with my priming sugar solution, and then dropped it into the bottom of the large mug. I then took some water out of the fridge (this was to play as my cold crashed beer) and poured it GENTLY down the side of the mug to not let it splash. I filled the mug to the top. I let it sit for 2 minutes. I then took a straw and sipped from the top of the mug. I could not taste any sugar. I then dropped the staw down to the bottom of the mug and I sipped. It was sugary and sweet. When I held the mug up to the light, I saw all of the sugar water in the bottom, sitting there. This must be what my problem has been.***
I purchased a syringe yesterday at the store. Again, since I only do 1 gallon batches, I normally finish with 9 full beers and a 10th beer that's about 1/4-3/4 full.
I plan on filling my pyrex measuring cup with the weighed out priming sugar (using tastybrew's calculator), and then pouring boiling water into the measuring cup to about the half cup line, and stir the priming sugar until its dissolved. Then, I will add another half cup of boiling water, bringing me to 1 full cup of priming sugar solution.
From there, I will empty out the Starsan from each of my 10 bottles, and then fill the first 9 bottles with 24 ML of the priming sugar solution. I just attempted this process and found that using this amount for each of the first 9 bottles will leave me with approximately 8.6 ML of priming sugar left for the 10th bottle, which is normally filled up about 1/4-3/4 of the way.
This process will guarantee that I have the exact same amount of priming sugar solution in each bottle.
I have also planned to only cold crash moving forward for 24 hours maximum. I'm wondering if cold crashing longer than that has led to me having too much yeast dropping out of suspension.
If this bottle priming process does not work, I then can at least focus on potential infection, and how to eliminate it
Would love to hear someone weigh in on this.
***As an anecdote for this problem I've been having...Yesterday, I took the largest mug in the house I could find. I boiled a very small amount of water (just enough to cover the bottom of a pot) and dissolved sugar in it). I then let it cool as I normally do with my priming sugar solution, and then dropped it into the bottom of the large mug. I then took some water out of the fridge (this was to play as my cold crashed beer) and poured it GENTLY down the side of the mug to not let it splash. I filled the mug to the top. I let it sit for 2 minutes. I then took a straw and sipped from the top of the mug. I could not taste any sugar. I then dropped the staw down to the bottom of the mug and I sipped. It was sugary and sweet. When I held the mug up to the light, I saw all of the sugar water in the bottom, sitting there. This must be what my problem has been.***
Personally I think you would get better consistency by mixing the solution in with your beer and then getting them into the bottles. Also way too much water in my opinion. I use less than that for my 5 gallon batches.
But I would say try it and revisit it. If it works then great but I wouldnt use your new process permanently.
But I would say try it and revisit it. If it works then great but I wouldnt use your new process permanently.
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JeffoC6
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Not sure if you read the thread, or my original post, but I've been batch priming for 24 batches and have had inconsistent carbonation on all of my batches. From siphoning in a whirlpool, to stirring gently, it doesn't matter. Inconsistent time and time again.
I'm left with no choice than to bottle prime. I agree with your opinion that I may have too much water, so I halved everything, and am now adding 12 ML of sugar water to each bottle.
JeffoC6 said:
I have read it, I commented a few times.
I just wouldn't recommend this as a permanent solution. I am no expert but I do know when something seems to be pain to do every time.
I main reason I object is that the process you use seems to work for most of us. So I don't see why it wouldn't for it.
I am curious to find out if it would work now.
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JeffoC6
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I would completely agree that this would be a pain if I were going to be bottling 3 or 5 gallon batches of beer. But because I only do 1 gallon, I usually get 9 full beers, and a 10th somewhat full beer. This process will maybe add an additional 3 minutes to my bottling day. For consistent carbonation, I'm willing to sacrifice that.
However, if this STILL gives me issues, then it looks like I may be talking about infections. My plan is to post my results in this thread.
An infection would never cause a flat beer. I'm not saying an infection isn't possible but it would definitely be a separate issue.
with funnel and predetermined measure, even doing a case is about 4 min. takes longer to boil the water.
iskuse
Well-Known Member
Here's what I would do
No cold crashing
New capper (When I used to bottle, I never got "dents" in the cap from the capper) Your bottles may be slowly leaking do to an improperly capped bottle, Not neccessarily something you are doing wrong, but your capper might be. It's possible that some are sealing and others aren't. A bad seal could also cause oxidation that would give you "off" flavours.
I just figured I would suggest another route, I think everything else was pretty well covered.
Anyway, just some thoughts I had
Good luck
No cold crashing
New capper (When I used to bottle, I never got "dents" in the cap from the capper) Your bottles may be slowly leaking do to an improperly capped bottle, Not neccessarily something you are doing wrong, but your capper might be. It's possible that some are sealing and others aren't. A bad seal could also cause oxidation that would give you "off" flavours.
I just figured I would suggest another route, I think everything else was pretty well covered.
Anyway, just some thoughts I had
Good luck
iskuse
Well-Known Member
I get a circle imprint but it is over the edge of the actual bottle mouth, if that makes sense? Don't really know how else to describe or explain it.
I don't know what the dent looks Like, I can only assume that if it is in the middle of the lid, that would flare up the edges slightly causing a possible leak.
Can't seem to figure out the inconsistencies they seem to be having. Instead of getting a capper, you could also get some swing-top bottles and try those. (Not Growlers) You could go to your local distributer and pick up some fine german beers in the bottles and then just re-use them. I've never seem them wholesale in 12 ounces, I believe they are like 16 oz. they are aboput 36 dollars for 12. something like this:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/beer-brewing-equipment/bottling/bottles/ez-cap-bottles-brown-16-oz-with-flip-tops.html
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JeffoC6
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Thanks for the additional opinions. I'm pretty confident in my seal, though. I think the no cold crashing and the bottle priming is going to help me out.
Am I going to notice a big difference in beer clarity from going from a cold crash to no cold crash? I leave ALL of my beers in the primary for 3 weeks minimum, and use whirlfloc in every batch.
Am I going to notice a big difference in beer clarity from going from a cold crash to no cold crash? I leave ALL of my beers in the primary for 3 weeks minimum, and use whirlfloc in every batch.
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JeffoC6
Well-Known Member
Thanks..See you're from Allentown. Thinking of joining the Lehigh Valley Homebrewer's club coming up this fall. Are you a member?
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JeffoC6
Well-Known Member
Nice..I'm just waiting for the weather to change. I'm sure by then I'll have my carbonation problems all worked out :cross:
Seriously. My basement has stayed at 68 - 70 degrees all year, so I've never worried about fermentation temp. But June was terrible. I had a Honey Lager kit that used ale yeast (2112) and a hard lemonade using red star champagne yeast. I figured that steady temp range would be fine. It probably would have, but the two weeks of 90+ temps shot my basement up to 74 degrees. The two of these brews stared blowing so much sulfur that I thought we had a plumbing backup in the house. I now have a solid working knowledge of swamp coolers. The yeast managed to 'scrub' the sulfur from the lager too. The lemonade still smells like feet, but it's a work in progress.
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JeffoC6
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I'd just like to say, as the OP of this thread, that I just opened a Lefthand Milk Stout clone that I brewed on 2/26/12, numbers as follows:
OG: 1.062
My OG: 1.061
FG: 1.022
My FG: 1.027
On 3/20/12, I bottled using:
0.6 oz of corn sugar (.85 gallons, final volume), batch priming method.
I have a bunch left, and put one in the fridge (after literally sitting at 70+ for the last THREE 1/2 MONTHS) last Saturday.
It sat in the fridge all week, and I just opened it....
FLAT.
I hear all the time that you don't have to stir when batch priming.
I hear all the time that if you wait, and be patient, the bottles "will carb eventually."
I hear all the time that it's me, not the yeast/sugar, etc., and that I'm impatient.
Well here's my question, why would a medium gravity Milk Stout not carb after 3 1/2 months at 70 degrees and 1 week in the fridge?
PS- I've had 2 or 3 out of this batch that were carbonated perfectly and 2-3 that were flat. I have 3 left. Should I leave them there for another 32 years and then try?
OG: 1.062
My OG: 1.061
FG: 1.022
My FG: 1.027
On 3/20/12, I bottled using:
0.6 oz of corn sugar (.85 gallons, final volume), batch priming method.
I have a bunch left, and put one in the fridge (after literally sitting at 70+ for the last THREE 1/2 MONTHS) last Saturday.
It sat in the fridge all week, and I just opened it....
FLAT.
I hear all the time that you don't have to stir when batch priming.
I hear all the time that if you wait, and be patient, the bottles "will carb eventually."
I hear all the time that it's me, not the yeast/sugar, etc., and that I'm impatient.
Well here's my question, why would a medium gravity Milk Stout not carb after 3 1/2 months at 70 degrees and 1 week in the fridge?
PS- I've had 2 or 3 out of this batch that were carbonated perfectly and 2-3 that were flat. I have 3 left. Should I leave them there for another 32 years and then try?
RCCOLA
Well-Known Member
I sometimes draw off a couple bottles of my lagers before I secondary them to get an early idea of how they will turn out.
When I do, I just add 2.2 grams of table sugar directly to each 12oz bottle. Works fine, never have had any infection/gushing issues and carb is always spot-on.
When I do, I just add 2.2 grams of table sugar directly to each 12oz bottle. Works fine, never have had any infection/gushing issues and carb is always spot-on.
Peppers16
Well-Known Member
JeffoC6 said:
Probably stupid of me to even ask, but I assume you rack with the syphon 'under' the priming solution. I find 'racking onto' a misleading term sometimes
Peppers16 said:Probably stupid of me to even ask, but I assume you rack with the syphon 'under' the priming solution. I find 'racking onto' a misleading term sometimes
By syphon, I assume you mean the tubing/outlet. Syphon would be the misleading term here.
In fact, it's the only real misleading term here. When you put the priming solution on the bottom of a bucket or carboy, it barely covers the bottom because it's so little volume. Despite the fact that the difference between onto and into shouldn't confuse anybody in this situation, it's very much "onto" it even if the outlet hose is resting on the bottom (recommended for a good mixing/whirlpool), since the solution is usually not even high enough to completely submerge the opening (ie the diameter of the hose is greater than the height of the solution).
hepcat
Well-Known Member
Dude. Really. Seriously, I'd think about finding another hobby.
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JeffoC6
Well-Known Member
Why's that?
Pie_Man
Well-Known Member
I've been working through some carbonation issues myself. It's tough when you spend a lot of time making a beer only to screw up the carbonation. In my experience, it's not as easy as many make it out to be. With experience, I'm starting to get the hang of it.
Many people add the priming sugar first, and then rack onto the priming solution in a manner that mixes the solution. That method didn't work well for me. To properly calculate the priming solution, you need to know your volumes. I've added the priming sugar first assuming I had 5 gallons of beer, but only ended up with 4.5 gallons in the bottling bucket. This happened even though my carboy has volume markings. The amount of trub, yeast, etc. in the carboy can skew the volume measurements and I found it best to rack into the bottling bucket, so I'm not guessing about my final volume. I rack into the bottling bucket, check the volume, then adjust my priming solution accordingly. I then add it to the beer, stirring it into solution causing a whirlpool while being careful not to splash. Then bottle.
Also, know the temperature of your beer at bottling time. The temperature changes the level of CO2 in solution. I cold crash my beer, but I let it warm up to at, or near, room temperature at bottling time. I've also had good success using the Northern Brewer priming sugar calculator to determine the correct amount of priming sugar to use, http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/.
If every single bottle is completely flat, then your issue is something else. You either killed all the yeast (not likely), or didn't use nearly enough sugar, but most likely it's a capping issue. Check that your caps are making a proper seal. There are probably multiple ways to do this, maybe shaking the bottle to check for leaks, or placing a balloon/condom over the neck of a freshly bottled beer and checking if it fills up with air. In your case, being that several are perfectly carbed and some where completely flat, it sounds like the priming solution wasn't mixed in well enough giving you an inconsistent carbonation level. I've been there before and that's why I stir the solution into the beer as mentioned above.
I hope this helps, good luck and try not get discouraged, you'll get the hang of it. If you don't, there's always kegging.
Pie man I asked the same question about how to know your wort amount after racking. It didn't make sence to me to add the sugar first. Not knowing what your going to end up with once racked. Thanks for posting that. It is how I planed to do my first batch.
