Why are oxygen tank regulators necessary?

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JoePro

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So, I'm looking at websites for aeration systems, and they all seem ridiculously expensive.

Airstone - 13$
Tubing - 3$?
Oxygen tank - 8-10$?

So why are people charging 50 bucks for these things? Are regulators that necessary/expensive?
 
So, I'm looking at websites for aeration systems, and they all seem ridiculously expensive.

Airstone - 13$
Tubing - 3$?
Oxygen tank - 8-10$?

So why are people charging 50 bucks for these things? Are regulators that necessary/expensive?

It's a small market for this type of aeration equipment, so the unit costs are bound to be relatively high. There are probably several layers of middlemen involved and they each must get their cut which further drives up the price.

A regulator is necessary for two main reasons. First would be that the O2 cylinders have proprietary or non-standard threads which precludes using off the shelf plumbing fittings to hook up. Secondly, a regulator meters the O2 delivery at a steady flow rate which would be difficult using only a valve.

You could use an aquarium pump with a sanitary filter to get the job done at a much lower cost. I did that for quite a while before I acquired a small welding type O2 cylinder and regulator. I've been using the same cylinder for about two years now and it still has quite a bit of gas remaining. Much less expensive in the long run, but also more costly initially.
 
Okay-- now for the second question. Can I get this stuff locally? I imagine I can get a regulator + O2 tank at a medical supply store-- the tubing I have, but what about the diffusion stone?

Would petsmart carry one?
 
Okay-- now for the second question. Can I get this stuff locally? I imagine I can get a regulator + O2 tank at a medical supply store-- the tubing I have, but what about the diffusion stone?

Would petsmart carry one?

You would need a prescription to get the medical O2 cylinder & regulator. The same for refilling a medical cylinder. The welding type cylinder would be easier to come by and less hassle to fill or exchange. I'm not sure it it's even legal to buy or sell the used medical type equipment.

You may have to bite the bullet on the SS diffusion stone and just buy it from one of the home brew suppliers online or maybe your LHBS has them in stock. You could use aquarium type air stones, but I doubt they would withstand boiling temps. I would just get the cheap ones and use a new one each time. I think they will handle sanitizing with iodophor or starsan, but I have not personally tried that as I use an SS wand type thing.

I don't know what the pressure is for the small, disposable, Bernzomatic type O2 cylinders is, but I know it's not thousands of psi. More like a hundred or so. Those small cylinders only contain about 1 cubic foot of Oxygen (at atmospheric pressure). By comparison, the small welding type O2 cylinder I use holds 20 cubic feet.

It's possible that you could use a needle valve to control the flow from a disposable cylinder with reasonable precision, but you would still be faced with the odd thread match up. The bottom line is that it's more trouble than it would be worth with no guarantee that it would work well.

I do realize that home brewers are notoriously stingy, or frugal, if you prefer, but sometimes it's just best to spring for the right equipment. It's usually a one time purchase kind of thing, so the cost is not all that much in the big picture. If you are wincing at spending $50 on this hobby, beware that there may be rough water ahead. Remember, these are toys for your hobby and any expense can easily be rationalized. I do it all the time.:D
 
So, I'm looking at websites for aeration systems, and they all seem ridiculously expensive.

Airstone - 13$
Tubing - 3$?
Oxygen tank - 8-10$?

So why are people charging 50 bucks for these things? Are regulators that necessary/expensive?

If cost is an issue you can always aerate the old fashioned way; shake the fermentor and/or splash the wort when transferring.
 
If cost is an issue you can always aerate the old fashioned way; shake the fermentor and/or splash the wort when transferring.

+1 I read somewhere that shaking is very nearly as effective as using pure O2, but it takes a little longer. I've done it in the past more than a few times and it seemed to work well enough. The ferment behaved normally and the beer came out just fine.
 
You would need a prescription to get the medical O2 cylinder & regulator. The same for refilling a medical cylinder. The welding type cylinder would be easier to come by and less hassle to fill or exchange. I'm not sure it it's even legal to buy or sell the used medical type equipment.

You may have to bite the bullet on the SS diffusion stone and just buy it from one of the home brew suppliers online or maybe your LHBS has them in stock. You could use aquarium type air stones, but I doubt they would withstand boiling temps. I would just get the cheap ones and use a new one each time. I think they will handle sanitizing with iodophor or starsan, but I have not personally tried that as I use an SS wand type thing.

I don't know what the pressure is for the small, disposable, Bernzomatic type O2 cylinders is, but I know it's not thousands of psi. More like a hundred or so. Those small cylinders only contain about 1 cubic foot of Oxygen (at atmospheric pressure). By comparison, the small welding type O2 cylinder I use holds 20 cubic feet.

It's possible that you could use a needle valve to control the flow from a disposable cylinder with reasonable precision, but you would still be faced with the odd thread match up. The bottom line is that it's more trouble than it would be worth with no guarantee that it would work well.

I do realize that home brewers are notoriously stingy, or frugal, if you prefer, but sometimes it's just best to spring for the right equipment. It's usually a one time purchase kind of thing, so the cost is not all that much in the big picture. If you are wincing at spending $50 on this hobby, beware that there may be rough water ahead. Remember, these are toys for your hobby and any expense can easily be rationalized. I do it all the time.:D


Good advice! I'm not necessarily wincing at the 50$. I'm just looking for an excuse to have someone purchase me a b-day present =)
 
+1 I read somewhere that shaking is very nearly as effective as using pure O2, but it takes a little longer. I've done it in the past more than a few times and it seemed to work well enough. The ferment behaved normally and the beer came out just fine.


I aerate the hell out of mine with O2 and its the absolute world of difference in start and finish times.
 
The O2 set up is worth every penny ... you won't regret it. I had aspirations of rigging up a system but finally bit the bullet and got one on sale. Quicker starts and better ferments.
 
The O2 set up is worth every penny ... you won't regret it. I had aspirations of rigging up a system but finally bit the bullet and got one on sale. Quicker starts and better ferments.

What exactly is definition of a "better fermentation"? I mean, so long as you reach your FG (never, ever had any problem with this-- even with saison yeasts) and let your yeast clean up a bit, is there really a world of difference?

I have heard people say that O2 aeration produces a cleaner-tasting beer, but I believe everything is best approached with a healthy bit of skepticism.
 
What exactly is definition of a "better fermentation"? I mean, so long as you reach your FG (never, ever had any problem with this-- even with saison yeasts) and let your yeast clean up a bit, is there really a world of difference?

I have heard people say that O2 aeration produces a cleaner-tasting beer, but I believe everything is best approached with a healthy bit of skepticism.

I agree, especially on the critical thinking part. It's been well documented that aeration is beneficial to the yeast, but there's probably little difference between the various methods, including shaking. I would not want to try and shake a 20 gallon conical, but with my buckets it would be no problem at all.
 
I agree, especially on the critical thinking part. It's been well documented that aeration is beneficial to the yeast, but there's probably little difference between the various methods, including shaking. I would not want to try and shake a 20 gallon conical, but with my buckets it would be no problem at all.


Haha, that's funny to picture.

At a certain point, wort reaches a saturation point of oxygen, and no matter how small your stone is, no matter how pure the oxygen is, the wort won' take any more. I've seen that particular brew science .pdf on wort aeration techniques and saturation, but I (and a grand portion of everyone else on this board) are scientists at heart-- are there any other brew science papers on wort aeration?
 
Okay-- now for the second question. Can I get this stuff locally? I imagine I can get a regulator + O2 tank at a medical supply store-- the tubing I have, but what about the diffusion stone?

Would petsmart carry one?

From a medical shop or welding shop the o2 reg plus tank will run you close to 150 or 200 dollars.

Petsmart does not have anything with pure oxygen. No pressurized gasses at all. If they did, it would be notoriously overpriced.
 
From a medical shop or welding shop the o2 reg plus tank will run you close to 150 or 200 dollars.

Petsmart does not have anything with pure oxygen. No pressurized gasses at all. If they did, it would be notoriously overpriced.

I was looking more for the diffusion stones. I hear they're sometimes used in aquariums.
 
The stones used in an aquarium are ceramic or plastic and wont take boiling for sanitation. Personally I don't use a stone I just use a racking cane hooked up to a $5 aquarium air pump and a sterile air filter. It works just fine, better than the pump with the stone I got.
 
Using O2 without something to give you a hint about the applied volume might be playing Russian Roulette with your yeast, as O2 above a certain ppm level (I think it's around 40ppm) is toxic to yeast, and below 8ppm isn't any better than using "air".

fwiw, a few years back I invested in an O2 rig that uses a volumetric regulator that measures in liters per second.
ab_nov_01_2010_04_sm.jpg

I typically run at .5 lpm for the length of time needed to reach around 15ppm concentration, which is double the best one could ever do using atmospheric "air" (8 ppm max). The time varies with the SG of the brew - the higher the SG the less absorbance. Typically I'm running .5 lpm for between 6 to 9 minutes for 5.25 gallon batches ranging from OG 1.045 up to 1.090.

When using this rig on a 6.5 gallon carboy I hook the stone up to the end of a racking cane with a couple of inches of vinyl hose to hook the stone to the cane, and sanitize the assembly. I swirl the cane around the bottom of the carboy and get the brew rotating pretty well so the bubbles travel a longer time before emerging, which should heighten the absorbance vs just leaving the stone in one spot the whole time.

Between the tank, regulator and the SS .5micron airstone I was in for around $150. The tank and regulator were obtained from a local AirGas outlet, while the airstone is easily obtained over the 'net for pretty small money compared to the rest of the rig.

There was no prescription required as this isn't a medical grade tank, and the AirGas folks will order and sell the regulator to any random customer.

hth

Cheers!
 
Keep in mind that if you can find or have an old cylinder of any sorts laying around most welding shops will take it in as a trade for full value on an O2 cylinder. I traded in a old used argon welding cylinder that was out of inspection plus $10 for a full 02 tank.
 
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