Why am I afraid to Dry Hop

[vindee]

I just did an Amber Ale on Thursday the 20th. I really want to dry hop this when primary is finished but hate to open the carboy to drop in the nylon hop bag. I never open the carboy until I'm ready to transfer for bottling.
Maybe some techniques or advice might help me out.

 

[icebob]

open the carboy, drop your hop in there, continue your usual activities, that simple!

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

clean and sanitize your hop bag. Dump in your hops, secure bag. Grab spray bottle with sanitizer and spray around airlock/bung. Make sure your hands are clean and sanitized too. Pull off bung, spray again around carboy opening. Push your hop bag into hole(good luck getting it out later). Spray around opening, spray your airlock set up and replace. This is all over kill, but it will work for your issues.

 

[chickypad]

Personally I would just dump them in, no bag.

 

[Owly055]

I never use a bag......... I just drop the hops right in.


H.W.

 

[vindee]

Personally I would just dump them in, no bag.

I appreciate the comments.
I had bought a long and narrow bag just for a carboy, but kind of like the idea of no bag. I have Cascade hops ready to harvest so I will be using fresh cones.
I actually used two 5oz additions to this brew one at 5 min and one at flame out.
With using fresh hops I had planned on around 2 to 3oz.

 

[day_trippr]

Fwiw, 2 to 3 ounces of wet hops is roughly equivalent to .4 to .6 ounces dry...

Cheers!

 

[duboman]

Personally I would just dump them in, no bag.

+1
Just dump them in, when ready to rack simply sanitize the hop sack or some women's nylons and wrap around racking cane as a filter


Sent from the Commune

 

[icebob]

+1
Just dump them in, when ready to rack simply sanitize the hop sack or some women's nylons and wrap around racking cane as a filter


Sent from the Commune

Cool, now I have a reason to go to the gentlemen clubs:rockin:

 

[vindee]

Fwiw, 2 to 3 ounces of wet hops is roughly equivalent to .4 to .6 ounces dry...

Cheers!

Since this was my first dry hop I wanted to try a 1/2oz equivalent to start with. I may bump it up 3 to 5 oz.
Thanks

 

[Talgrath]

Personally I rack to secondary for dry hopping, it's just easier to sanitize everything and then pour the beer in, it also helps keep the beer clear in my experience.

 

[drkwoods]

Drop um right into the secondary after it's off the yeast cake, you'll
Get better dry hop results. Also don't worry about contamination at this point to much, if the pH is below 4.5 it's gonna be tough to contaminate it with good general techniques.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Komocabo]

Cool, now I have a reason to go to the gentlemen clubs:rockin:

That's a lot if sanitizer

 

[icebob]

anything to get the gorgeous Debby's nylon in my brew

 

[jbaysurfer]

Drop um right into the secondary after it's off the yeast cake, you'll
Get better dry hop results. Also don't worry about contamination at this point to much, if the pH is below 4.5 it's gonna be tough to contaminate it with good general techniques.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

This is a speculative statement. I have had incredible success in contests with hoppy beers and even have had the honor of having professional brewers consult with me on how I do it, and I never secondary.

I don't mean to make this about secondary vs. not, but when I see a totally speculative statement that claims secondary is better results then those of us who don't I'm compelled to speak up on behalf of those of us who think secondary for dryhopping is just one more chance to infect or oxidize your beer.

As an edit, and to show that I really don't care to make any arguments about which results are better: I'm convinced doing it via secondary with good practices to avoid infection and oxidizing it will work equally as well as what I do, it's just another step that I prefer to eliminate.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

This is a speculative statement. I have had incredible success in contests with hoppy beers and even have had the honor of having professional brewers consult with me on how I do it, and I never secondary.

I don't mean to make this about secondary vs. not, but when I see a totally speculative statement that claims secondary is better results then those of us who don't I'm compelled to speak up on behalf of those of us who think secondary for dryhopping is just one more chance to infect or oxidize your beer.

As an edit, and to show that I really don't care to make any arguments about which results are better: I'm convinced doing it via secondary with good practices to avoid infection and oxidizing it will work equally as well as what I do, it's just another step that I prefer to eliminate.

I believe a secondary is better for dry hopping only because it is easier to get more "clear" beer as the floating leaf hops sink as you syphon when you dont have to worry about a inch thick yeast cake at the bottom :rockin:

 

[Staylow]

This is a speculative statement. I have had incredible success in contests with hoppy beers and even have had the honor of having professional brewers consult with me on how I do it, and I never secondary.

I don't mean to make this about secondary vs. not, but when I see a totally speculative statement that claims secondary is better results then those of us who don't I'm compelled to speak up on behalf of those of us who think secondary for dryhopping is just one more chance to infect or oxidize your beer.

As an edit, and to show that I really don't care to make any arguments about which results are better: I'm convinced doing it via secondary with good practices to avoid infection and oxidizing it will work equally as well as what I do, it's just another step that I prefer to eliminate.

I don't recall where I read it now, but I do recall reading about Vinnie Cilurzo from Russian River talking about removing as much yeast as possible before dry hopping due to, if I recall correctly, yeast particulates binding to hop oils and dropping them out of the beer, or something to that effect.

This link doesn't specify that exactly, but he does speak of getting rid of as much yeast as possible.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I rack to a co2 purged keg and then dryhop. The ideal setup is a dry hopping keg with a short dip tube so that you can co2 push to the final keg after dryhopping. Oxygen is the enemy here.

Oh, and I sanitize a bag and then fill it with whole cones and drop it in.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

I rack to a co2 purged keg and then dryhop. The ideal setup is a dry hopping keg with a short dip tube so that you can co2 push to the final keg after dryhopping. Oxygen is the enemy here.

Oh, and I sanitize a bag and then fill it with whole cones and drop it in.

if you rack and dont splash or agitate the liquid other then the natural movment then oxidation shouldnt be a factor

 

[Jopilote]

As far as I am concerned, I drop the pellets directly into the secondary carboy (or primary depending on your fermentation techniques). But, when I come across some leafed hops, I usually put them in a stainless steel ball (kinda like the kind you use to infuse tea, but bigger). This way they are easy to collect after fermentation is done. Never tried this technique with pellets, but I guess they would simply pass through the holes in the ball.

Don't be afraid to dry hop, this is one of the techniques that leads to great beers!!!

Hope this helps!!!! Cheers !

 

[jbaysurfer]

I don't recall where I read it now, but I do recall reading about Vinnie Cilurzo from Russian River talking about removing as much yeast as possible before dry hopping due to, if I recall correctly, yeast particulates binding to hop oils and dropping them out of the beer, or something to that effect.

This link doesn't specify that exactly, but he does speak of getting rid of as much yeast as possible.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf

He's a commercial brewer and thus can't just throw in an extra half ounce of hops to offset any effect the yeast may have of dropping the oils out. Also that article doesn't say that's the reason he drops the yeast out. We all drop as much yeast out of our beers as possible, save for styles like Hefeweizens etc.

There are advantages afforded to us on the homebrew scale that commercial brewers don't have. The low cost of a little extra hops is one of them.

That said, I think that effect is negligible compared to the effect the O2 is going to have when you add an extra racking from primary to secondary. Ther are also advantages afforded commercial brewers that homebrewers don't have. Closed transfers is a huge one. Vinny doesn't have to worry about 02 because he does all closed transfers. The commercial breweries I've brewed at all dryhop in the bright tank, but we don't have bright tanks in homebrewing, the C02/02 is the difference. If I ever secondary at home (for a fruit/spice beer) I try to flush the carboy with C02 first, although you'll never get the PPM counts as low as a commercial brewer even with that technique.

If folks really want to secondary, then I suggest using this technique, even if I think it's unnecessary risk since I get amazing results dryhopping right in the primary, and I can always put another round of dryhops in keg (serving vessel, also not the same as secondary) and flush with C02 before racking.

I'm not here to do a secondary vs. not thing though, everyone brew the way they like to brew, I'm merely explaining the rationale for the way I brew.

Edit: I'm re-reading that article (as I did read it when it first came out), and it looks like Vinny agrees with me (see below) on the dangers of 02:

One final technique I want touch on is the concept of purging the secondary vessel, transfer tubing, kegs and bottles with CO2. This is something that can be applied to all beers you brew at home and is a regular technique used in commercial breweries. I emphasize this even more with a Double IPA because hoppy
beers can oxidize so fast and anything you can do to prevent oxidation will help in the end.

 

[jbaysurfer]

if you rack and dont splash or agitate the liquid other then the natural movment then oxidation shouldnt be a factor

Based on my judging experience, Oxidation should always be considered a "factor" when homebrewing. Avoiding every PPM possible leads to beers that stay fresh and stable vs. degrade. The effect of o2 on your beer is magnified the further away from you the beer gets. If you want to enter into regional competitions or send it cross country you'd be well advised to respect the damage O2 can do.

Just my $.02. Plenty of people do dryhop in a secondary and do just fine.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

Based on my judging experience, Oxidation should always be considered a "factor" when homebrewing. Avoiding every PPM possible leads to beers that stay fresh and stable vs. degrade. The effect of o2 on your beer is magnified the further away from you the beer gets. If you want to enter into regional competitions or send it cross country you'd be well advised to respect the damage O2 can do.

Just my $.02. Plenty of people do dryhop in a secondary and do just fine.

Maybe i was misunderstood. Oxidation is a factor no doubt. Improperly capping your bottles would be a problem as the beer would be sitting there open to air for a long period of time. Me just racking from a primary to a secondary is not going to oxidize my beer anymore then if i skipped a secondary, as long as you practice good racking procedure. Beer being exposed to some surface area air for a few minutes should be your last concern when worrying about ozidation.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Me just racking from a primary to a secondary is not going to oxidize my beer anymore then if i skipped a secondary, as long as you practice good racking procedure. Beer being exposed to some surface area air for a few minutes should be your last concern when worrying about ozidation.

That is just factually incorrect. Unless you're racking in an O2 free environment, or under pressure, it is impossible to rack from one vessel to the other without introducing more O2 then currently exists in a finished beer sitting in the fermenter.

I don't think I misunderstood you at all to be honest. Like I said, I'm sure people can dry hop in secondary and get fine results, but what I've stated about O2 is very valid. There's a reason for what Vinny Cilurzo says the article cited above, and it's in direct contradiction to your quote here.

One final technique I want touch on is the concept of purging the secondary vessel, transfer tubing, kegs and bottles with CO2. This is something that can be applied to all beers you brew at home and is a regular technique used in commercial breweries. I emphasize this even more with a Double IPA because hoppy
beers can oxidize so fast and anything you can do to prevent oxidation will help in the end.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

That is just factually incorrect. Unless you're racking in an O2 free environment, or under pressure, it is impossible to rack from one vessel to the other without introducing more O2 then currently exists in a finished beer sitting in the fermenter.

I don't think I misunderstood you at all to be honest. Like I said, I'm sure people can dry hop in secondary and get fine results, but what I've stated about O2 is very valid. There's a reason for what Vinny Cilurzo says the article cited above, and it's in direct contradiction to your quote here.

Ok, ill just keep doing what i do and win comps and get compliments. I am homebrewer not a commercial brewer. My beer doesnt sit on a shelf for months, its usually gone in less then two months unless i set some aside. My racking practices have never had any adverse effect that has ever been noted or even mentioned by any judge in any competition, so its kind of irrelevant don't you think...

 

[jbaysurfer]

^ nothin' personal, just talking brew! I'm sure your process makes awesome beer!

 

[Staylow]

He's a commercial brewer and thus can't just throw in an extra half ounce of hops to offset any effect the yeast may have of dropping the oils out. Also that article doesn't say that's the reason he drops the yeast out. We all drop as much yeast out of our beers as possible, save for styles like Hefeweizens etc.

There are advantages afforded to us on the homebrew scale that commercial brewers don't have. The low cost of a little extra hops is one of them.

That said, I think that effect is negligible compared to the effect the O2 is going to have when you add an extra racking from primary to secondary. Ther are also advantages afforded commercial brewers that homebrewers don't have. Closed transfers is a huge one. Vinny doesn't have to worry about 02 because he does all closed transfers. The commercial breweries I've brewed at all dryhop in the bright tank, but we don't have bright tanks in homebrewing, the C02/02 is the difference. If I ever secondary at home (for a fruit/spice beer) I try to flush the carboy with C02 first, although you'll never get the PPM counts as low as a commercial brewer even with that technique.

If folks really want to secondary, then I suggest using this technique, even if I think it's unnecessary risk since I get amazing results dryhopping right in the primary, and I can always put another round of dryhops in keg (serving vessel, also not the same as secondary) and flush with C02 before racking.

I'm not here to do a secondary vs. not thing though, everyone brew the way they like to brew, I'm merely explaining the rationale for the way I brew.

Edit: I'm re-reading that article (as I did read it when it first came out), and it looks like Vinny agrees with me (see below) on the dangers of 02:

As I said in my original post: "This link doesn't specify that exactly, but he does speak of getting rid of as much yeast as possible."

I suppose I should have included "....as much yeast as possible, before adding dry hops.", but I thought that would be a given, considering the topic.

As for that point being "negligible" compared to the damage of 02 being introduced, I would think that when following Vinnie's advice (that which you also pointed out) of flushing with C02, that any potential impact would be minimal.

I think though, that both of these issues are very minor in the end. Even if you transfer without flushing with C02, unless you are splashing your beer during transfer or leaving excessive headspace in the secondary, that the chance of oxidation being noticeable is nil. Similarly, I'm sure the impact on aroma when dry hopping in primary is also minimal. Both issues, it seems to me, are just extra insurance of a great beer.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

As I said in my original post: "This link doesn't specify that exactly, but he does speak of getting rid of as much yeast as possible."



I suppose I should have included "....as much yeast as possible, before adding dry hops.", but I thought that would be a given, considering the topic.



As for that point being "negligible" compared to the damage of 02 being introduced, I would think that when following Vinnie's advice (that which you also pointed out) of flushing with C02, that any potential impact would be minimal.



I think though, that both of these issues are very minor in the end. Even if you transfer without flushing with C02, unless you are splashing your beer during transfer or leaving excessive headspace in the secondary, that the chance of oxidation being noticeable is nil. Similarly, I'm sure the impact on aroma when dry hopping in primary is also minimal. Both issues, it seems to me, are just extra insurance of a great beer.

Agree

 

[vindee]

I just picked my hops for the dry hopping and am planning on adding 5oz. to my 5 gallons of Amber Ale which has been in the primary for two weeks now. My plan is to dry hop for the next week and then bottle.
My question is should I store the carboy where it is now at 70 degrees or should I move it to my other location which is at 62 degrees? My only two options.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

I just picked my hops for the dry hopping and am planning on adding 5oz. to my 5 gallons of Amber Ale which has been in the primary for two weeks now. My plan is to dry hop for the next week and then bottle.
My question is should I store the carboy where it is now at 70 degrees or should I move it to my other location which is at 62 degrees? My only two options.

Fermentation is done just store it where its at, temp wont really affect flavor at this point.

As for 5oz of hops for dryhops.....are you using leaf hops or pellet??

 

[vindee]

Fermentation is done just store it where its at, temp wont really affect flavor at this point.

As for 5oz of hops for dryhops.....are you using leaf hops or pellet??

I'm using whole, fresh picked cones.

 

[DesignatedDrinker]

I'm using whole, fresh picked cones.

Ohhh. I was gonna say!

 

[vindee]

Ohhh. I was gonna say!

Don't scare me like that!

 

[GCPHomebrew]

I dry hop in either or both. Drop the hops in. Btw oxidation from transfer is do to poor transfer technique. OP don't be scared of the dry hop. Next to controlling the ferm temp it is the biggest improvement to homebrew.


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[Bobcatbrewing42]

I used to dry hop into the carboy but getting a hop sack in there w/o contaminating something is difficult. Now I "dry hop" in the keg. I'm paranoid about contamination so I put my hops into a small hop sack, put the whole thing into a large shot glass and soak it in moonshine. It is completely sterile and the hop flavor seems to infuse into the beer faster and more thoroughly. One more item- hops in the bottom of a corny keg can clog the tube so I put a moonshine soaked wine cork into the key to keep the hops at the top and away from the tube.

 

[atoughram]

I typicaly put the hops in a hop bag along with a bunch of sanitized glass marbles, tie the top off with a zip tie, spray the bag down with StarSan and drop it into the conical. Never had an infected batch when dry hopping.

 

[vinnythering]

Dump em in! No bag! Beer is pretty forgiving. Just do it. That's how I go. My experience with bags and carboys has always been a PITA. I don't even bother with bags or carboys anymore; straight from bucket to keg anymore.

 

[vindee]

I ended up putting them directly into the carboy.
3 weeks in the bottle and I'm detecting a metallic or maybe it's a grassy taste. If it's from dry hopping hopefully it will mellow over time. If not this would be why I was scared to dry hop. However, though, it seems like it will be a decent beer.

 

[aangel]

I'm trying to decide whether to dry-hop (in a SS conical) or use a hopback, either during the initial transfer to conical or between the conical and keg. From this thread, I've read that dryhopping might best be performed *after* fermentation is complete, as the yeast may extract some of the hop oils. For that matter, any fining agents (plan on using either gelatin or filtration media, depending on the beer) might pull those oils out as well.

A few questions:
1 - is there a way to sanitize or sterilize the hopper/hopback and its contents before adding to the wort?
2 - is there really any difference between using a hopback vs dryhopping?
3 - IF I hop after the fermentation is complete (either after dumping my yeast and dumping the gelatin sludge, or using a hopback when transferring to keg) how do I remove the hop particulate without removing the oils?

Thanks for the help.

 

[atoughram]

Dump em in! No bag! Beer is pretty forgiving. Just do it. That's how I go. My experience with bags and carboys has always been a PITA. I don't even bother with bags or carboys anymore; straight from bucket to keg anymore.

I used to dump them, trying to strain them out before kegging is a PITA. I dont know how many times I've had to take the taps apart on a corny to clean out the hops that had accumulated in the valves.