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Looking back to my photo of the gallon jug primary fermentation, perhaps it wasn't protein blobs floating about. It's very similar looking to what's atop the bottles now.
 
I will take a look at both my carboys this evening to look for pellicle formation.
Sunday I relocated the weiss upstairs to a 68 degree environment to clean up... I don't remember seeing anything at that time.
 
No sign of pellicle formation in the weiss when I placed it in the chest freezer to crash tonight. Hit my target fg of 1.013. Decided to shut it down considering I'm scared this yeast may dry it out further. I will keg this weekend.

The Baltic on the other hand does show a bit of pellicle on the surface along with a handful of cobweb'ie bubbles that seem unable to burst. It still has quite a bit of gravity to shed, so I moved it to a 68 degree environment.
 
I probably shouldn't have referred to it as a pellicle as its not really sealing off the surface. It's just a buoyant blob for lack of a better description. I assume this is the non-sacch constituent. I'll update again when it's time to crack one open.
 
Kegged the weiss this morning after 2 days of cold crashing. Damn good beer.

The high gravity baltic porter (1.105) has stalled at 1.035 (its been there for 4 days) despite moving it from a 62 to a 68 degree environment. I washed the yeast from the weiss carboy and will build a 2L starter this evening and add it to the baltic this weekend... might move the carboy to a 72 degree environment at that time in hopes of getting it rolling again. I'd really love to see 1.025.
 
Finally put my 611 to use today.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1457031283.450000.jpg

Brewed just over 2 gallons (basically a glorified starter!) of a Pilsener/Saaz SMaSH (1.054 OG, 21 IBU from 75 and 10 min additions), and split it into two carboys.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1457031457.986667.jpg

Both pitched at 60* F, with one going into my ferm chamber set at 61, and the other into the closet (room temp about 75). Interested to taste the diff in ester and phenol expression between the two. Yeast definitely smelled similar to both a Hefe and a Saison strain...
 
So I am a big fan of wheat beers of all kinds. In fact I have brewed about 12-15 batches this past year. So when I heard there may be a new and very different yeast strain/ blend, I was all over it. And to it to the chase, this WLP 611 is awesome. White labs, please make this again, or even better, make it available all year! The end result from my brew was one of my favorite wheat beers I have made. I would say this blend has as much character potential as any great hefe or Belgian strain, and best of all it is totally unique. A small panel of willing or not tasters with very different preferences all loved the beer (and they definitely tell me when they don't).

Brew: my typical German hefeweizen
Batch size: 5g BIAB
50% German wheat malt
50% German Pilsen malt
Target OG 1.05
Target FG 1.012- 1.014

Mash at 112F for 15 minutes
Raise to 152F over about 15 minutes
Hold at 152F for 40min
Mash out at 167F

Boil 90min
German Hallertau ~20-25 calc IBU at 60min
Yeast nutrient at 15min

Chill to 70F

Pitched straight from vial after stealing a few mL for a freezer stock.

Ferment in SS Chronical at 68 +/- 1F until finished

Results: OG was actually a bit higher, at 1.056. Probably due to a slightly finer grain crush for this batch leading to more efficiency with my BIAB set up. But monitoring gravity over the course of fermentation, this blend chewed through the wort and hit a lower than expected FG of 1.010 in about 64 hours. I have it another 24 hours to rest, then bottled 1/2 the batch, kegged the other half, and harvested some yeast slurry.

Appearance: I didn't cold crash this brew and at 68F it did not floculate very much. While this same brew with WLP 300 is very medium yellow and cloudy, this came out much more white/ yellow. Very distinctive. Head retention, though glasses this far don't stay full very long, seems great.

Aroma: a lot of banana, with some additional fruit that is harder to place. Maybe pears or a really juicy sweet and ripe red apple (not acetylaldehyde- which I'm normally quite sensitive to). No higher alcohols, no heavy phenolics, with maybe a touch of spice as it warms.

Mouthfeel: light and creamy to put it simply, very nice at 3 volumes of CO2 or so.

Taste: much like the aroma, wonderfully distinctive and fruity. Notes of German malts and banana like a hefe but with a noticeably different ester profile. So far tasters have had a very hard time placing exactly what the fruity character includes, but all reviews have been very favorable.

Overall: I would love to be able to make this a staple of my homebrew lineup... I really hope White Labs gets enough similar feedback to help make this happen!!
 
I popped open my little 187ml tester bottle from my Pils based batch. Quite evident banana character is there. I did not get any clove though. I had a harsh bitterness, but I don't blame the yeast for that (used Sorachi Ace for bittering to use it up). It's interesting and I can see why others are raving about it in hefeweizens. I have a gallon of mead fermenting with it now. I really don't know what to expect from that.
 
I would expect (read: hope) blends like this in general to act similarly for a few batches. The Torulaspora delbrueckii may not be able to keep up with the growth of Sacchromyces over time. But in previous blending experiments, sometimes you only need a very little of one strain to deliver the characteristic you desire. Ideally, id like to isolate each of the three strains in this blend, stock and grow them separately, and make blends on demand for different beers.
 
All this Banana talk has me shying away from a Saison and going towards a wheat beer, or spelt beer to make it more interesting.

Any opinions on how hops would work with the ester profile? Originally wanted to late hop with French Bouclier or Aramis.
 
So far it seems like the fermentation temps folks are using are at the lower end of the range for the blend. I used 68, got a good deal of fruity esters and banana. I haven't seen anyone go in more the 75-85 range this yeast is supposed to be able to tolerate. Maybe worth giving it a shot? White Labs noted more spice, and I would expect more phenolics at that temp. But I'm biased, because I want to sees hat happens at those temp myself. Haha
 
Fermenting at 62 degrees 611 is heavy with banana aroma and flavor. I actually think I may use the last vial I have to make a weizenbock instead of a saison... though I am still interested to hear what 611 is like when fermented hot (80+ degrees).

25507096431_91868756d6_k.jpg

best weissbier i've made, +1 for White Labs needing to mass produce WLP611.
 
arnobg said:
$9 isn't unreasonable at all. My LHBS charges $9 for regular strains after taxes. Just make a larger starter and harvest off of it and use it many more times.
Click to expand...


Sorry just starting to read this thread and this pops out at me... Your LHBS is charging TAX on yeast? WHAT??? You need to straighten them out brother!

That's all. I'll go back and start over..LOL

Cheers
Jay
 
So I ended up adding some WLP001 to the high gravity baltic porter that crapped out at 1.030 after realizing that WLP611 was near 65% attenuation (it's lower range). WLP001 has taken the beer down to 1.020. All is well... but now i've got a question.

I'd like to wash the yeast once I transfer to keg... the cake at the bottom of the carboy will contain both WLP611 & WLP001. Do you think its feasible that I can use the washed yeast in future high gravity beers with the intention of having WLP611 express itself at a 60 degree ferment (below what WLP001 likes), and then raise the temperature up into the 70's if/when I need a bit of extra attenuation to drop the FG?

i.e. if I keep temps below WLP001's fermentation range (68-73), should I expect WLP611 to be dominant?

Based on my high gravity baltic porter, I'd say people should avoid using 611 at OG's higher than 1.08 (unless you are OK with excessive sweetness).
 
I just received notification that the German Lager X I ordered from the Vault has shipped. Schwarzbier incoming.
 
Leipzig said:
I just received notification that the German Lager X I ordered from the Vault has shipped. Schwarzbier incoming.
Click to expand...

Got that this morning too. Just in time as I plan to do my helles in a few weeks.

Side note: if it's anything like Wlp860, then you wouldn't want to use it if you want an authentic Schwarzbier. Schwarzbier need a drier finish like a pils.
 
Leipzig said:
So I ended up adding some WLP001 to the high gravity baltic porter that crapped out at 1.030 after realizing that WLP611 was near 65% attenuation (it's lower range). WLP001 has taken the beer down to 1.020. All is well... but now i've got a question.

I'd like to wash the yeast once I transfer to keg... the cake at the bottom of the carboy will contain both WLP611 & WLP001. Do you think its feasible that I can use the washed yeast in future high gravity beers with the intention of having WLP611 express itself at a 60 degree ferment (below what WLP001 likes), and then raise the temperature up into the 70's if/when I need a bit of extra attenuation to drop the FG?

i.e. if I keep temps below WLP001's fermentation range (68-73), should I expect WLP611 to be dominant?

Based on my high gravity baltic porter, I'd say people should avoid using 611 at OG's higher than 1.08 (unless you are OK with excessive sweetness).
Click to expand...
That's an interesting question. If I were to guess I would assume that you could get characters of each and could influence the profile with fermentation temperature at least to an extent. The concept of adding a second and potentially more attenuative yeast strain to hit a lower finishing gravity has been reported to work fairly well. I have seen some others get good results with adding something like WLP001 or US-05 to a more expressive English strain when the starting gravity is high or a starter wasn't an option. However, depending on the profile of the brews you use the yeast mix with next, your blend will likely shift towards one or two of the now 4 strains present over time. The good news is sometimes you only need a small amount of the "character" yeast to taste an impact.

In your case you have a bit complex situation going on, as the WLP611 is a blend to begin with. I pitched about 90% of a WLP611 vial into a 5g hefeweizen batch with no starter and got 83% attenuation (1.056 to 1.010) at 68F. More data on that brew here. I work in mycology and had the opportunity to at least guestimate the blend proportions (mostly Saccharomyces v. Torulaspora). I also grew up that last 10% of my first vial in a starter, and harvested my yeast from the harvester on my conical. At least under these conditions my rough estimate would be as follows:

Vial- 20 to 25% Torulaspora
Starter- 30 to 35% Torulaspora
Harvest- 5- 10% Torulaspora

A little bit more on my experience with WLP611 here.

So the blend has at least some moderate stability based off my observations, but certainly will change on you to some extent.

As I believe you set up a starter and started at a lower fermentation temp, if I recall correctly, it might be that you built up a bit more of the less attenuative Torulaspora and at the lower fermentation temps this may have led to less attenuation. Additionally, the Torulaspora seems to be less inclined to ferment more complex sugars, so if you had any longer rests at higher mash temps it may have had a bigger impact on the performance of this yeast specifically. Mostly educated speculation though.

Glad you were able to get things where you wanted with some WLP001! Based on my one brew with WLP611 so far, I bet you'll have a very unique brew.
 
jmrybak said:
So far it seems like the fermentation temps folks are using are at the lower end of the range for the blend. I used 68, got a good deal of fruity esters and banana. I haven't seen anyone go in more the 75-85 range this yeast is supposed to be able to tolerate. Maybe worth giving it a shot? White Labs noted more spice, and I would expect more phenolics at that temp. But I'm biased, because I want to sees hat happens at those temp myself. Haha
Click to expand...

I am currently doing my saison (1.040 og) recipe with WLP611fermenting in the mid 80's. It took off in less than 12 hours and smells like a straight up hefe yeast with no sulfur. I pitched most of the tube, but I saved a little, maybe a 1/4 tsp. And pitched that into a 1 litre starter and that took off in about the same time. I'll keep you posted on how things go with it.
 
^ I am definitely very intersted in hearing how your Saison turns out fermenting in the 80s. I've still got 1 vial of 611 that i'm not sure how I plan to use.

German Lager X arrived in the mail on Monday. This Vault release came in Pure Pitch packs instead of the vials that the Nordic Blend was in.
 
Leipzig said:
^ I am definitely very intersted in hearing how your Saison turns out fermenting in the 80s. I've still got 1 vial of 611 that i'm not sure how I plan to use.

German Lager X arrived in the mail on Monday. This Vault release came in Pure Pitch packs instead of the vials that the Nordic Blend was in.
Click to expand...
White labs is moving over to pure pitch, but blends are for now remaining in the vials. As each component of the blend needs to be grown in a separate vessel, the blends can't be packaged straight from the bioreactor (growing container) the way pure pitch packages are. However it is my understanding they are still grown in the same bioreactors before being blended for vial packaging.

Also very interested in your results with higher temps. I secured a couple more vials and think I can stretch them out a bit as my research into the blend suggest a starter built up from a very small portion of the vial can be built up without losing any of the strains used.
 
Here are my brew notes from my wlp611 beer.

57% Avangard Wheat
38% Weyermann Pils
5% Vienna
60 minute addition of Gr Perle hops to 9ibu.
OG 1.050 FG 1.010
Fermented at 68º. It took off pretty fast and hard with krausen flowing through the blowoff tube but the krausen dipped after about 48 hours. It slowly fermented for about 8 days total before the krausen dropped and the beer dropped pretty clear (for a wheat beer). Stayed in primary for 20 days and bottle conditioned to 3.1 volumes. At the temp I fermented it at, it's leaning way more towards a traditional hef than a saison. I'm definitely getting more banana and general fruit than any spice.

has anyone fermented this in the 70's or 80's? Does it throw off any spice?
 
I did a redish rye ale w/ a hallertau blend Yakima had tossed in an order. 611 yeast Fermenting - I let it free rise from 66F and it got up to 73F. Now I 'm not the best at describing flavors but what I got was Juicy-fruit gum with cracked pepper smushed into it. The description doesn't sound as good as it tastes. But I like like it.
 
jmrybak said:
@Matty_O_FoodsnBrews: how'd that saison turn out?
Click to expand...
I will be racking to secondary on my next day off and bottling a few. Normally I only primary, but I got a little backed up. I finally have a saison recipe that I like, so I am sitting on 15 gallons of saison with varying yeast strains in each bucket. Not a bad problem to have, I guess. I will let you know how it is tasting. I probably won't keg it for a couple of weeks though...
 
jmrybak said:
Also very interested in your results with higher temps. I secured a couple more vials and think I can stretch them out a bit as my research into the blend suggest a starter built up from a very small portion of the vial can be built up without losing any of the strains used.
Click to expand...

Recipe is:

Belgian pilsner: 85%
White wheat malt: 10%
Caravienne malt: 5%
East Kent Goldings: 1oz. 60min
Willamette: 1oz. 60min
East Kent Golding's: 1oz. 10min
Whirlfloc: 10min

WLP611: most of 1 vial pitched @80°


Appearance: pale-gold, clarity is good
Smell: funky, Belgian, Hops, banana-ish
Taste: dry, bitter, hops, slight tang, sweetish
Mouthfeel: smooth, dry, tart, tangy.

Stayed around 80° for the duration of fermentation. Transfered to secondary (until the keg opens up) after about 3 weeks. Started at 1.045 sample after three weeks was @1.010. I am waiting on a couple that I bottled to get a carbonated taste, but so far it is tasting very similar to the beer I have on tap which is the same recipe with WLP568 Belgian saison blend more hefe than saison.
 
For those that have brewed with the 611, would you advise against muddying it up with flavor/aroma hops? I'm thinking just an oz of Hallertauer Mittelfrueh for bittering typical Hef but Spelt instead of Wheat, but the hop head in me wants to toss in some Motueka at flameout. Bad idea?
 
I have used Motueka in a few beers recently. A couple of which I split the batch and only half got Motueka. I love the lemon lime citrus profile, but too much and it becomes reminiscent of cleaner and can definitely overshadow finer flavors.

For a hefe with WLP611, I like the traditional hopping option. The yeast itself will give you plenty of fruity character in the banana (and I think pear) direction. The citrus oriented hops could just make it a bit fruit punch like.

That being said, you could could always do what I wind up doing with most brews where I'm torn on a couple options: split the batch. Dry hop half with a little Motueka and have a clean portion on hand to do a side by side with.

Let us know how it turns out!
 

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