White Labs WLP001 Dry Yeast Coming Soon

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Yes dry is easy but from that perspective, it is just as easy to direct pitch a liquid pack.
I have no personal experience with direct pitching liquid yeast, but it seems like I've read more stories about that failing than about dry yeast failing. Most likely due to loss of viability during shipping.

To me, the biggest problem with liquid yeast is that the manufacturers lose control of storage conditions as soon as they send it to their distributors. With dry yeast, about the only way to ruin it is to open the package. Or maybe irradiate it, but I really don't see that as a major risk. ;)
 
For me, yeast starters are a lot of reward for very little work. We put a lot of time into brewing and packaging, so why draw the line at knocking up a starter? I repitch a lot so starters are regular for me. It's a small job and I know I'm pitching good yeast, peace of mind and avoid the fermentation lottery.
 
And let's just put the table here for posterity :
DRYLIQUID
SelectionNot all strains can be dried effectively due to the large scale and process of drying, so the selection is limitedProduction of liquid yeast is generally smaller scale, flexible, and can be optimized to provide a much greater selection of strains
FlavorGenerally more neutral in flavor and aroma. The drying process contributes some stress on yeast, so flavor production in fermentation is mutedLiquid counterparts will have more distinct aromas and complex flavors due to the health and viability
Ease of UseOpen package and sprinkle on top of wort (no rehydration required)Twist open cap and add to wort or pump inline with our FlexPump (Aseptic Transfer System).
FlocculationDue to the drying process, cell membranes can often be deficient in membrane proteins responsible for flocculation. This can lead to less effective flocculation capabilities.Strain-dependent, but consistent flocculation properties by strain. This is a result of robust cell membranes with intact flocculation proteins, leading to efficient flocculation.
Nutrient RequirementsSome nutrient availability in the form of non-viable yeast, adding sterols, nitrogen, and other micro-nutrientsWort oxygenation is critical, as is adequate FAN and other micro-nutrients
Pitch Rate50-100g/hL, somewhat dependent on actual viable yeasts in the packagePrecise cell counts, allowing accurate custom calculations for pitch rate
Fermentation SpeedDependent on pitch rateDependent on pitch rate
Shelf LifeLong shelf life (12-24 months from production date). Can be stored at ambient temperature, although it is recommended to store it under refrigeration to maximize the shelf life.Shorter shelf life than dry, but grown fresh with high viability percentage. Should always be stored under refrigeration.
Quality ControlFollows strict specification standards for bacterial and wild yeast contaminants per 1 million yeast cellsThe propagation process results in higher purity cultures, enabling the detection of wild yeast & aerobic bacteria contaminants per 40 million yeast cells and anaerobic bacteria contaminants per 140 million yeast cells. This typically allows liquid yeast to be repitched for more generations
RepitchingCan be repitched, but typically has a potentially higher microbial load (see Quality Control above), which can grow over generations, resulting in contamination of harvested yeast quicklyMore sensitive QC specifications allow liquid yeast to be repitched for more generations without the risk of increased microbial population
ShippingCan be shipped in less temperature-regulated environments, resulting in less packaging (insulation and ice) and less expensive shipping methods. Due to its dry form, it is typically easier to import/export in global markets.Requires cold shipping to maintain viability, which requires insulated shippers with ice and fast shipping methods. Can be challenging to import/export in some countries due to strict regulations for live cultures
Cost/ValueTypically lower priced than the equivalent volume of liquid yeastHigher priced than dry yeast, but better value when repitched as a result of the number of generations that can be gained from liquid yeast

That table reads like someone was scraping the bottom of the barrel to come up with facts while ignoring if those facts are actually meaningful. I wish they'd just leave it at "you get more strains" as the benefit of liquid yeast.

For example, as a benefit of liquid yeast: "Precise cell counts, allowing accurate custom calculations for pitch rate". Yes, precise cell counts *at the factory*. Unless you buy it from the source, you have no idea how the yeast has been mishandled by the time you get it and therefore what the cell count you get is. The calculations are garbage in => garbage out (a.k.a. GIGO).

Also: "The propagation process results in higher purity cultures, enabling the detection of wild yeast & aerobic bacteria contaminants per 40 million yeast cells and anaerobic bacteria contaminants per 140 million yeast cells. This typically allows liquid yeast to be repitched for more generations ". Does someone here brew in a sterile room in a space suit? Is the order of magnitude of the contaminants significantly different after 1 generation? If you do brew in a space suit -- all the more power to you btw -- then it might matter, but then you probably also have at least a microscope and make informed decisions instead of ones based on marketing.
 
Well to add to this post look what I found!

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-single?id=230&style_type=2&type=YEAST
That's reported to be the Augustiner strain!

1703007348152.png
 
Will be interesting to see how this compares to liquid and how much it costs for a 5 gallon lager batch. 2 packets at $15 each?
I'd be curious how viable one pack of dry yeast and a 2 liter 1.040 starter would compare to the liquid version in a 2 liter 1.040 starter on the stir plate? Aka wonder if this would be a viable option for actually saving a bit of moolah compared to the liquid versions in the long run?
 
Yes. Their dry vs liquid pricing is about $4-$5 apart for the WLP001. I am guessing the lager strain might be more expensive but maybe it will be the same. So maybe my assertion of $15 per packet is too high. But I would not think one packet would be enough yeast for a cold ferment lager alone. 2L starter would be better but once you leave the convenience of direct pitching, (making a starter) I believe liquid is a better way (with a starter).
 
Yes. Their dry vs liquid pricing is about $4-$5 apart for the WLP001. I am guessing the lager strain might be more expensive but maybe it will be the same. So maybe my assertion of $15 per packet is too high. But I would not think one packet would be enough yeast for a cold ferment lager alone. 2L starter would be better but once you leave the convenience of direct pitching, (making a starter) I believe liquid is a better way (with a starter).
I definitely do not disagree. However, as someone located in a very hot hurricane prone climate, I will say that if something were to ever happen to the frozen yeast bank due to power issues (storms) it would be a nice/convenient alternative that could be shipped year round. I'm just glad another company is dipping their toes into the dry yeast market.
 
I agree to both. I wish WL was bettering dry yeast with tech improvements rather than using existing companies to fulfill their orders. It would be great to have dry yeast on par beyond a doubt since the homebrewing world is going towards a mail order centric existence. Given the pricing, it is becoming cost prohibitive for the liquid yeast ecosystem to thrive. But the price of WL's dry is not cheap either.
 
I wonder if WLP860(dry) is their response to Lallemand Diamond (Doemans 308), which is also reported to be a Munich strain. Looking forward to trying it.

WLP 860 is one of my favorite German yeast strains along with WLP 830 (Weihenstephaner 34/70). Both are great lager yeast along with WLP 835x Andechs. Love ‘em all!

If White Labs goes further down this road of marketing dry yeast strains, I’ll be able to free up a significant amount of freezer space full of frozen yeast samples. Room for more hops!
 
WLP 860 is one of my favorite German yeast strains along with WLP 830 (Weihenstephaner 34/70). Both are great lager yeast along with WLP 835x Andechs. Love ‘em all!

If White Labs goes further down this road of marketing dry yeast strains, I’ll be able to free up a significant amount of freezer space full of frozen yeast samples. Room for more hops!
Yes!!!!
 
The dry version adds a yeasty flavor, 86% attenuation, and almost 3 times as much diacetyl? Yeah, I think I'll pass.

And liquid not far behind with 85.3% AA, only 0.3% less than dry (85.6%). Looking at the fermentables, I can't imagine what kind of mash schedule got them those kinds of attenuations with WLP001.

The diacetyl for the dry yeast is a bit concerning. While the "as-is" number is below typical taste thresholds, the "total" number isn't. As that beer ages, the remaining precursor could bump the "as-is" number into tastable range. Of course, there's nothing to indicate that they did more than one trial to determine the numbers.
 
The dry version adds a yeasty flavor, 86% attenuation, and almost 3 times as much diacetyl? Yeah, I think I'll pass.
I looked at a number of the other "Beer Data" measurements across a number of strains and styles - but without actually tasting the beers, it's hard for me to know what a "good" or a "bad" number is. First bottles from my first batches with the strain will be available to me in a couple of weeks.

Loosely related, the UT video mentioned in #1 of "Oxygenating Dry Yeast" leads to a presentation with some charts from Lallemand.
 
Interesting how the SRM of the dry is darker. Also how the tasting notes are so different between the two. Seems like the tasting should be similar for the dry vs liquid to be a success? I would like to visit the WL taproom to try a lot of their beer and yeast outcomes.
 
I looked at some of the other split batch recipes - much of the time, SRM was the same, sometimes it varied 0.5 or 1.0. WRT WLP001 (wet). there was a wide range of numbers for diacetyl (including one above 100). It may be that a little extra care at the end of fermentation cleans up the beer.
 

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