Whirpooling and trub reduction?

[kstiglich]

Hi folks,
I am trying to reduce the trub that go into my fermenter.
I have a Braumeister 20L and use an immersion wort chiller.
Today I brewed a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale that included 1oz cascade hops in pellets as whirlpool/step, so I tried the following directions;

1. At end of boiling I threw 1/2 oz of cascade hops in pellets (half of hops at whirlpool step), and did not start my chiller.
2. I started whirpooling with a large spoon during 10 minutes and temperature got to 176f.
3. then I throw the second 1/2oz of cascade hops, and started running tap water through my chiller.
4. I had to do something, so I leave for 1 hour....
5. After that hour I found many clouds of clumps (hot brake) floating in my wort... Wort temp was 68f.

I had to whirlpool again everything, and after 2 hours all cold brake fall to the bottom.
Even that, I had to lose like 4 or 5 liters because a lot of trub was floating on that 4 or 5 liters....

Please let me know if I am doing something wrong, or how can I improve my whirlpool/trub separation?
I believe that trying to whirlpool with the chiller immersed in the wort is inefficient.
So maybe I have to chilled my wort to 86f, remove my wort chiller and then whirlpool my wort?

 

[nitton]

Are you using Irish moss or Whirlfloc? That kind of fluffy trub in the first photo looks like what you get when you use too much.

 

[kstiglich]

Yes, I am using one tablet of whirfloc...actually I understand that 1/2 table of whirfloc is enough, but many sites mention that using 1 tablet will not have any effect?
Do you think that those clouds are caused by using 1 tablet of whirfloc for a 5/6 gallon of wort boiling? If I use only 1/2 table do you think that the same procedure will precipitate all trub? Honestly I feel that having the wort chiller inside and considering that my Braumeister has a tube in the middle, it is hard to create a whirlpool....

 

[Smellyglove]

Im european, so excuse my stupidness when it comes to american volumes. But if you're using one tablet of whirlfloc for five sixth of a gallon (3 litres) you are using way to much. Half a tab for 5 gals is enough.

 

[nitton]

Well, opinions seem to vary based on googling "fluffy trub whirlfloc" but the general advice is to use 1/2 tablet per 5 gallons and/or add closer to the end of the boil (10 or 5 minutes).

The kettle design or chiller might be interfering, but I don't think (yet) that it's the problem. At least in my unsophisticated setup I get a decent cone inside the immersion chiller, with some on the outside as well. It's enough that the side pickup leaves most of it behind. However, I don't have the tube in the middle like the Braumeister.

 

[kstiglich]

Im european, so excuse my stupidness when it comes to american volumes. But if you're using one tablet of whirlfloc for five sixth of a gallon (3 litres) you are using way to much. Half a tab for 5 gals is enough.

I mean 5 or 6 gallons of wort. Depending on recipes, I would have a boiling volume between 23 or 24 liters (Actually 6 gallons of wort).
I use 1 tablet of whirfloc all times....

 

[acidrain]

1/2 tab per 5 or 6 gal. is all that is needed. Add it near the end of the boil.
After you chill it down to pitch temp, pull the chiller and give the wort a fast spin with the paddle and then cover the pot.
After 20 minutes the trub should be settled down so that you can rack off of it.

 

[paperairplane]

Just to back up a step - any particular reason you are concerned about getting trub in your fermenter?

 

[kstiglich]

Just to back up a step - any particular reason you are concerned about getting trub in your fermenter?

More beer! I used to have a lot of trub, thus after primary I had to leave a lot of trub+yeast and the final volume of beer transferred to my keg was lower... I expected to avoid trub and increase my final beer volume.

 

[acidrain]

More beer! I used to have a lot of trub, thus after primary I had to leave a lot of trub+yeast and the final volume of beer transferred to my keg was lower... I expected to avoid trub and increase my final beer volume.

I believe your reasoning is flawed... If you let it ALL ferment out, and then cold crash, I believe you will get less trub than if you did it twice (once before pitching, and once after fermenting).
Don't get me wrong... I'm in the "eliminate trub before pitching" camp, but I don't necessarily think it's more efficient.

 

[kstiglich]

I believe your reasoning is flawed... If you let it ALL ferment out, and then cold crash, I believe you will get less trub than if you did it twice (once before pitching, and once after fermenting).
Don't get me wrong... I'm in the "eliminate trub before pitching" camp, but I don't necessarily think it's more efficient.

It is ok Acidrain. Let me be more accurate on my previous answer....
When I said more beer is because my fermenter has a max capacity of 5.5 gallons. Considering that I need some head space I could have a máximum of 4.5 gallons in my fermenter. If I let some hot trub get into my fermenter, later I will have maybe 4 gallons of final beer transfered to my keg.

I would like to have a large fermenter, but living in southamerica I have to consider the local options, and available water vessels are only 5.5 gallons.

 

[Natdavis777]

I never had luck whirlpooling with my immersion chiller, because I ran into the very problem you are having. I would chill down to 70F and the pull the chiller out and whirlpool. After letting everything settle, there was still a good 2-3 inches of "clouds" and other hot break material in suspension at the bottom of my kettle. So I just racked above it and counted my losses. I've only found whirlpooling (as a means to leave hop material and trub behind) successful when using a plate chiller.

On a side note, in past beers, I've said screw it, and siphoned that break material into the fermenter to meet my total volume without any ill effect.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[kstiglich]

I never had luck whirlpooling with my immersion chiller, because I ran into the very problem you are having. I would chill down to 70F and the pull the chiller out and whirlpool. After letting everything settle, there was still a good 2-3 inches of "clouds" and other hot break material in suspension at the bottom of my kettle. So I just racked above it and counted my losses. I've only found whirlpooling (as a means to leave hop material and trub behind) successful when using a plate chiller.

On a side note, in past beers, I've said screw it, and siphoned that break material into the fermenter to meet my total volume without any ill effect.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

2-3 inches of wort is like 5 or 7 liters of beer (1.3 or 1.8 gallons)! I am not going to be happy including that lose on my calculations! I need to reduce that trub at least to 1 inch...so if I cannot do it chilling my wort with colder water, I will have to find a temporary large vessel to receive my wort, chill it and syphon to my fermenter...

 

[madscientist451]

Here in Pennsylvania, USA the nights are getting into the 40's. I try to brew at the end of the day, whirlpool and chill the wort, then put the lid on and let it sit overnight in the chilly air. The trub will be pretty much settled out in the morning, so I then siphon to the fermenter.

 

[kstiglich]

yes, I am convinced it is a matter of low temps. I will try using chilled wáter running through my wort chiller, otherwise, I will have to buy an open bucket, transfer wort into the bucket and chill it in my chest freeze for a couple of hours, and then syphon to the fermenter.