Whirl pooling low or high output

[GuyBob]

Hoping for a little feedback. I just bought a 16 gallon flat bottom kettle. It stands just shy of 17". I would like to set it up with whirlpool system with a pump. I found this website that offers a low port or high port for a output to whirlpool using a weld less bulk head. The idea is to whirlpool while using a IC and collect undesirables in center. Does anyone have any good input on this? I copied a link to the page below.

http://brewhardware.com/valves-69/167-whirlpool

 

[gandelf]

Read the description more closely. The difference is the elevation of the port in relation to the vessel (pot); not
the orifice. You could trim the tube to change that. On my 15 gallon Pollarware, 6 " from the bottom is the sweet
spot. The high port option does not require a valve.

 

[GuyBob]

Thanks but I know the difference. Perhaps I should have clarified more. I just wanted feed back if anyone had one or the other and what seemed to work better. Do you have a tube or just a low port with valve? Before making holes in a kettle you better be sure which one you want first. The placement on these two different setups range quite a bit.


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[DustBow]

Higher means one less connection to worry about leaking....as long as you get good flow rate from your pump, you should be fine with either location
I rigged mine up with a barb on the outside connected to a elbow on the inside with a diptube kit I had

 

[GuyBob]

Thanks for the reply Dustbow. I ended up ordering the high port the other day from Brew hardware with a 14" dip tube. Does it seem to work better towards the bottom? My kettle is 17"tall and I will be doing 5 and 10 gallon batches. I was thinking about installing it so the dip tube is at the 4 gallon mark so It will work with 5 and 10 gallon batches. Any thoughts? Thanks


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[DustBow]

That's probably a good plan, flexibility is key. This is a 9 gallon kettle, my buddy actually has it right now but I would venture to say mine is about 1/2 way down the kettle, maybe slightly more.
I pump/chill thru a Chillzilla then back into the kettle and obviously it works well. Not sure if your IC would block trub from piling in the middle or not - are the coils "loose" or packed tightly onto each other?
Again, I don't think location is going to matter as much as flow rate and the amount of time the whirlpool lasts. If you are just pumping straight from your kettle back into the kettle you will have plenty of flow rate

 

[GuyBob]

I would like to get a counter flow chiller but don't want to spend the $$ right now plus I've read a few threads on here about whirl pooling with an IC and works fairly well. I think the idea is to keep whirl pooling when at pitching temp so the trub mounds in middle. I can't remember and would have to revisit the thread.


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[DustBow]

That's true, just pull out the IC at the end and keep pumping a for a little bit, I don't think it really takes that long for the trub to get centered as long as everything is swirling quickly.

 

[GuyBob]

Dustbow. I'll show a pic once I've got the kettle all set up. Pretty excited. Do you do normal hop additions with BIAB? I've read some people doing the bitters later in boil with whirl pooling and such. Not sure I really understand it.


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[DustBow]

I actually have not done many BIAB brews, but the hop additions should stay the same. Maybe you are talking about hop-steeping to mimic the pro breweries whirlpool additions?

 

[GuyBob]

Let me look around a bit and find the thread I was looking at. There was a chart someone made up about hop additions and tweaking the time to add them. Pretty interesting thread. I just got my supplies from Brew Hardware in the mail. Went with the 14" whirlpool high port and chugger pump with cam locks. Will post a pick of the stuff soon. Super excited


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[Woodbrews]

GuyBob: Please post pics when you have it all set up. Ideally, I'd like to find a way to use the same port to both circulate during mashing and to whirlpool while chilling. Of course the problem is that with a port in the side of the kettle it would be covered by the bag during mash. Do you plan to add a separate port in the kettle lid for mash recirculation?

 

[GuyBob]

Woodbrews. I will for sure. May take me a few days get everything setup. The high side port I got with tube could be quickly changed with a short piece of high temp hose so you recirculate wort through the bag. Pic below of the parts.


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[Woodbrews]

Woodbrews. I will for sure. May take me a few days get everything setup. The high side port I got with tube could be quickly changed with a short piece of high temp hose so you recirculate wort through the bag.

Thanks for the fittings picture! I have mine on order from Brewhardware as well. I'm beginning to think that the KISS principle is best -- this little tidbit from a post over at BIABrewer.info has me thinking that recirculating during mash is overrated:

I started out using a pump to recirc during mash, now I don't. If you are not careful with your recirculating flow rate you will end up pulling too hard below the bag and create an air pocket. If you create an air pocket, you run the risk of your element scorching (been there done that). You won't have any scorching issues so long as the element is fully immersed.

Now, I bring the water up to mash in temps with the pid controller while recirculating (my temp sensor is in the outlet of the kettle), turn off the pump drop in the grains, then set the pid on manual control at about 5-6%. I don 't recirc during mash, just come around every 15-30 minutes and stir. My mash efficiencies run in the 82% range and this is over the last 10-12 batches. Total brewhouse efficiencies in the 75% range. I will use the pump to recirculate during chilling with an immersion chiller, helps speed up the chilling process and with the temp sensor in the outlet T, I can dial in my pitching temps.

Read around, there are a lot of other things that affect your efficiencies. Just "recirculating" is not a recipe for better efficiencies.

I likely will set up my fittings on the side of the kettle and use the pump to recirc while I'm heating to strike, and then post-boil during chilling. I probably won't try to use the pump during the mash itself -- I'll just leave the lid on and stir periodically.

 

[GuyBob]

That's a good point. I didn't about the air pocket or even possibly sucking in the bag. I did buy the "cheap mans dip tube" for the bulk head though. It's turned down which is connected to to ball valve on the other side. I think this would alleviate the air pocket. I installed the 14" high port whirl pool tube. My pot is about 16 in high so every inch is about a gallon. I made it so the tube is at the 4 gallon mark so it's always under the boil weather it's a 5 gallon batch or 10 gallon. I also got the cam locks for connections. If my efficiencies are low then maybe ill do the recirculate during mash but don't for see an issue. I also got a sweet bag for mash, hops and dry hopping including this ratchet which I will attach to the ceiling. Hope this info helps you out but sounds like your on the right path. I'm not gonna lie drilling the pilot holes in this Concord kettle was no easy process. That thing is solid. Brew hardware rocks though. Highly recommend their stuff. Good prices and shipping.



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[MerlinWerks]

Lookin' Schweet GB!

I'm looking to do a similar setup. How are you going to heat?

 

[Woodbrews]

That's a good point. I didn't about the air pocket or even possibly sucking in the bag. I did buy the "cheap mans dip tube" for the bulk head though. It's turned down which is connected to to ball valve on the other side. I think this would alleviate the air pocket. I installed the 14" high port whirl pool tube. My pot is about 16 in high so every inch is about a gallon. I made it so the tube is at the 4 gallon mark so it's always under the boil weather it's a 5 gallon batch or 10 gallon. I also got the cam locks for connections. If my efficiencies are low then maybe ill do the recirculate during mash but don't for see an issue. I also got a sweet bag for mash, hops and dry hopping including this ratchet which I will attach to the ceiling. Hope this info helps you out but sounds like your on the right path. I'm not gonna lie drilling the pilot holes in this Concord kettle was no easy process. That thing is solid. Brew hardware rocks though. Highly recommend their stuff. Good prices and shipping.

Thanks for the pics! I have the exact same dip tube setup, also sourced from BrewHardware, and I have the same bag and pulley from Wilserbrewer. I just hooked up my pump (a 12v Solar PV5) and ran sanitizer through the kettle to test the pump. The little pump works like a charm and I can regulate the flow using the ball valve coming out of the kettle. I have not set up my fittings for recirculation or whirlpooling because I'm still not sure how I want to arrange everything. I may end up installing two fittings - one in the lid for recirculation during mash and one on the kettle side for whirlpooling while chilling. Of the two, however, I think chilling is more important because I think it would really speed up the process using my IC and would use a lot less tap water.

 

[GuyBob]

I agree. My biggest con is stirring while trying to chill. It's so tedious to me. Seems like it would take a lot longer if I wasn't stirring so the whirlpool option was a no brainer. I also ended up buying a chugger pump with ball valve to control flow. Bobby from brew hardware told me you could remove whirlpool tube and add smaller tube (1-2") long and attatch a small high temp silicone hose to recirculate while still using same port. For me this is a good option if I need to go that route. I want to try with out and see where my effiecency is. For me chilling faster and easier is a win plus it piles up all the gunk in the middle instead of in fermenter. Good luck. Make sure you don't harden the steel when drilling. Need to let the bit cool a lot when Making pilot holes and use cooking spray oil or wd-40.


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