which yeast starter calculator do you trust the most?

[xpops]

i know there are lots of threads on here regarding starters, but none of them from what i've read really have a solid answer, so i figured i'd try again.

which starter calculator is the most legit?

for example - i want to brew an IIPA. 5.25g batch, OG of 1,083. using a wyeast 1056 american ale smack pack from a week ago, so approx 96% viability, and using a stirplate.

Beersmith 2.0
-297 billion yeast required
-0,55qt starter
-1 package of yeast

mrmalty
-297 billion yeast required
-1.06qt starter
-2 packages of yeast

brewersfriend
-298 billion yeast required
-2.1qt to start, and step up to a second starter
-1 package of yeast

so what gives? how can the starter volumes be so different? how do you actually trust any of these, and not drastically under/over pitch?

any suggestions/comments from anyone would be great!

 

[MaxStout]

Hmmmm...that .55 qt. starter in BeerSmith seems a little small.

I use YeastCalc. It has 2 choices for stir plate, Zainesheff and Troester. I use Zainsheff, as it is more conservative. Plugging in your OG and yeast date, I get a recommended 298B, which requires a 2.1 qt. starter with the stir plate. This is the same as your values from Brewer's Friend.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Almost all of the calculators are based off of two growth rate formulas. Mr Malty (Zainesheff) or Braukaiser (Troester).

Malty is much more conservative, but also seems to be slightly arbitrary, this may be because he didn't want to release his data points or for other unknown reasons. Either way, there is little data to back up his findings.

Braukaiser is very public about his data, and the formulas he uses. As such, I tend to view them as much more reliable.

In particular I plan on using this calculator from now on http://www.homebrewdad.com/yeast_calculator.php which has a thread about his release here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/brand-new-yeast-starter-calculator-502343/

 

[xpops]

Thanks for the input guys! i've been using beersmith for all my batches so far - i've been hitting my FG so i assumed things were going well - it just seems odd that i see a lot of 1-2L starters mentioned in a lot of threads, and i've never seen such high volumes with beersmith, so thought i'd reach out!

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for the input guys! i've been using beersmith for all my batches so far - i've been hitting my FG so i assumed things were going well - it just seems odd that i see a lot of 1-2L starters mentioned in a lot of threads, and i've never seen such high volumes with beersmith, so thought i'd reach out!

Here's something to read next time you worry about pitch rate and think of the 2L starters. Notice the amount of overpitch and underpitch and the results of both. http://sciencebrewer.com/2012/03/02/pitching-rate-experiment-part-deux-results/

 

[dstar26t]

I do cell counts for all my propagations and they never grow to what any of the calculators predict. I get 10-25% shy of Jamil's. This is on a stir plate controlled to 72F. I've tried pure O2 at the start and constant sterile air pumped into the headspace with no change in growth. If you want a calculator that works, make your own that reflects your process.

 

[duboman]

I use http://www.yeastcalc.co/pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator#.UzwRD_k7um4 with the Troester Stir Plate Option. The reason is because Kai has done extensive studies on stir plate starters and growth rates and I have never had any issues with starters created with this site. In using various sites I have always found this one to be the most consistent and it allows for stepped starters.

 

[carvetop]

Ditto on the YeastCalc.

 

[Hello]

YeastCalc. Beersmith has always seemed low to me.

 

[NathPowe]

I use the Kai stir plate option on YeastCalc. I have no idea if it's "right" or if the cell counts it estimates are even remotely close to reality. I do however know that a) Using that option gives me consistent results and beers that I really enjoy drinking, and b) I like not having to deal with the really huge starters that some of the other calculators recommend.

Cheers.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I do cell counts for all my propagations and they never grow to what any of the calculators predict. I get 10-25% shy of Jamil's. This is on a stir plate controlled to 72F. I've tried pure O2 at the start and constant sterile air pumped into the headspace with no change in growth. If you want a calculator that works, make your own that reflects your process.

Interesting, I've always heard Malty was much lower than in reality. Did you build your own stir plate? Have you checked the OG of your starter?

 

[winvarin]

Hmmmm...that .55 qt. starter in BeerSmith seems a little small.

I use YeastCalc. It has 2 choices for stir plate, Zainesheff and Troester. I use Zainsheff, as it is more conservative. Plugging in your OG and yeast date, I get a recommended 298B, which requires a 2.1 qt. starter with the stir plate. This is the same as your values from Brewer's Friend.

+1. I use yeascalc with the "Jamil Setting". I like that the numbers are more conservative. And the interface is much easier to tinker with than the mrmalty interface. It's a lot easier to tinker with the effects of different-sized starters.

 

[dstar26t]

Interesting, I've always heard Malty was much lower than in reality. Did you build your own stir plate? Have you checked the OG of your starter?

Yes, I built my own stir plate. It doesn't produce the gigantic vortex that I see a lot of people doing. It's built to handle a 250mL flask up to a 6.5 gallon carboy. I use 1.040 wort from DME and use wyeast nutrient.

 

[jbob7171]

I know it was mentioned once already, but I'd like to mention it again... I'm going to start using this calculator:

http://www.homebrewdad.com/yeast_calculator.php

It's pretty much lock-step with YeastCalc with the Troester stir plate option selected but it will auto complete step ups for you if they are needed.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Yes, I built my own stir plate. It doesn't produce the gigantic vortex that I see a lot of people doing. It's built to handle a 250mL flask up to a 6.5 gallon carboy. I use 1.040 wort from DME and use wyeast nutrient.

Strange. Perhaps try going to 1.037 as I think that's supposed to be the idea gravity? Still shouldn't affect it that much.

Anyone else have any ideas why his counts would be so much lower?