When you cold crash, do you just leave the airlock as normal, or do you plug it?

[joshesmusica]

Do you just leave the airlock as normal, or do you plug it?

Do you just set your temp to your desired cold crash temp from the outset, or do you slowly drop it down to that temp?

I'm asking because I recently infected two small batches (luckily they were small. unluckily one of them was a rare yeast I had been building up and it was on the final stage of propagation...) and they weren't infected until after the cold crash. Which leads me to believe that I crashed them too quickly, which led to air from the chamber sucking into the fermenters.

I like to be able to crash quickly. So would it work to just stick a starsan soaked cloth into the hole, or something like that?

 

[NTexBrewer]

I have some rubber stoppers that are recessed. When I cold crash I use this stopper and pack the recessed area with cotton balls soaked it Starsan. I think I got this technique from Ashton Lewis's BYO column.

 

[30_Ounce]

Use an S bubbler with just enough Star San to cover the bottom of the S. It won't suck into the beer that way but will let air in to relieve the pressure difference.

 

[Brauer]

I bought a bunch of balloons. I fill one up with co2 from the extra hose on my kegeratorss manifold, stick it in top of the carboy, and drop the temp on my fermentation fridge to desired temp. It usually deflates the balloon but I don't have to worry about the negative pressure sucking in oxygen at kegging time when I remove the airlock

 

[Gavin C]

Tin foil + elastic band/carboy cap

Set the temp to 0.0C and walk away. 1-2 day later gelatin. 1-2 day later package.

 

[joshesmusica]

Tin foil + elastic band/carboy cap

Set the temp to 0.0C and walk away. 1-2 day later gelatin. 1-2 day later package.

the problem is i don't want any air sucking back in. does this absolutely keep it out?

i'm wondering if the balloon idea would work if i put it on toward the end of fermentation and let that fill with co2 in that way. then when i crashed it, it would only suck back in air that was already in the fermenter. would that work?

 

[PGEduardo]

Unless you pressurized transfer EVERY STEP from fermentation on, you're going to get some small amount of air. Due diligence and RDWHAHB

One way to avoid some suckback with a solid stopper would be to warm it back up before opening. Not worth it in my opinion...

 

[joshesmusica]

i'm actually not worried about suck back when getting ready to bottle. it's just that i'm pretty sure there's some not good stuff floating around in the ferment chamber. even though i've cleaned it and sprayed with starsan, i just want to be safe and not waste any more batches. especially because the next three are important to me because two i will be lagering for some time, and the other one helps keep the pipeline going. so maybe i'll just have to go with a plug to see what happens.

 

[jbb3]

i'm actually not worried about suck back when getting ready to bottle. it's just that i'm pretty sure there's some not good stuff floating around in the ferment chamber. even though i've cleaned it and sprayed with starsan, i just want to be safe and not waste any more batches. especially because the next three are important to me because two i will be lagering for some time, and the other one helps keep the pipeline going. so maybe i'll just have to go with a plug to see what happens.

A one piece (s-shaped) air lock should do the trick and they're cheap. The small amount of air the cold crash pulls in will go through the star san which should kill any bugs. If that doesn't do it, then you've got a worse problem in your fermenter that needs to be addressed.

 

[joshesmusica]

A one piece (s-shaped) air lock should do the trick and they're cheap. The small amount of air the cold crash pulls in will go through the star san which should kill any bugs. If that doesn't do it, then you've got a worse problem in your fermenter that needs to be addressed.

i have an s-shaped air lock, but i'm not sure about your theory of it having to go through the starsan. how does starsan clean air? it's bubbles of this outside air being pulled in. it's not like it's dissolving into the solution first.

i'm not saying that it's not possible that i've just got issues with the fermenter. but then it happened to two, and only the two that were last cold crashed in there. i can see how it would happen to one of them. it had a ton of headspace because i transferred off a good portion of it into a keg. then i threw some dry hops in that portion and cold crashed it.

but the other one was a starter that was just five days old. no signs of infection before it went in to the cold crash, 4 days later, infected. because this was a rare yeast that i was propagating, i was incredibly anal retentive when it came to sanitizing it. i normally crash starters in the fridge, but didn't really have the space, and i was already cold crashing something, so i figured why not.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=508900

Cheers!

 

[RM-MN]

i'm actually not worried about suck back when getting ready to bottle. it's just that i'm pretty sure there's some not good stuff floating around in the ferment chamber. even though i've cleaned it and sprayed with starsan, i just want to be safe and not waste any more batches. especially because the next three are important to me because two i will be lagering for some time, and the other one helps keep the pipeline going. so maybe i'll just have to go with a plug to see what happens.

Have you ever looked up the definition of paranoia?

 

[joshesmusica]

Have you ever looked up the definition of paranoia?

i suppose i have at some point in my life. thanks for the productive comment!

honestly, i'm not normally so ridiculous when it comes to sanitation and stuff. but now not being somewhere in the middle of how anal retentive i am at sanitation has come to bite me in the ass.

the one that was just leftovers being dry hopped, not so horrible. only lost about 7 liters.

like i said, the other one being a rare yeast, it took a lot of work to get it to that point. i was ready to package 2/3 of it and send it on to people. then propagate the other 1/3 again for myself. now i gotta start that process all over again.

 

[Gavin C]

the problem is i don't want any air sucking back in. does this absolutely keep it out?

i'm wondering if the balloon idea would work if i put it on toward the end of fermentation and let that fill with co2 in that way. then when i crashed it, it would only suck back in air that was already in the fermenter. would that work?

No. It's not intended to be airtight. It prevents suck back of airlock fluid and provides a physical barrier to airborne particulate. That's all

I make no effort to prevent ingress of air at this time.The only workable solution I have ever seen is @day_trippr 's brilliant setup and subsequent closed transfer. I'm not setup for that.

If your not transferring under CO2 pressure it's all moot.

Why do you believe this air intake is the source of an infection. Sounds like a likelier scenario is in your yeast handling of this weird and wonderful rare yeast strain. Preventing oxygenation is the primary rationale behind a closed system. I think you're barking up the wrong tree perhaps.

Once you open the FV to transfer you'll have an inflow of air. Partial pressures will reach equilibrium very rapidly.

 

[joshesmusica]

No. It's not intended to be airtight. It prevents suck back of airlock fluid and provides a physical barrier to airborne particulate. That's all

I make no effort to prevent ingress of air at this time.The only workable solution I have ever seen is @daytrippr 's brilliant setup and subsequent closed transfer. I'm not setup for that.

If your not transferring under CO2 pressure it's all moot.

Why do you believe this air intake is the source of an infection. Sounds like a likelier scenario is in your yeast handling of this weird and wonderful rare yeast strain. Preventing oxygenation is the primary rationale behind a closed system. I think you're barking up the wrong tree perhaps.

Once you open the FV to transfer you'll have an inflow of air. Partial pressures will reach equilibrium very rapidly.

well i'm not 100% sure, it's just that as i mentioned, it wasn't infected before it entered into the ferm chamber. i think i'll either try the balloon or some foil and see if that helps. i don't really see why it wouldn't help really. i've got three batches waiting to cold crash, so i'll know by the end of the week.

 

[Brad2287]

This would also work from a sanitation point of view. Just stick this in the stopper.
http://www.williamsbrewing.com/mobile/IN-LINE-2-MICRON-FILTER-P440.aspx
Will not stop air but will stop microbes.

 

[bobeer]

I just put a balloon, rubber glove, plastic wrap,or whatever else, over it and stick it in the fridge. Never have had any issues.

 

[joshesmusica]

ok, so i've been crashing an oktoberfest hybrid ale for nearly a week. the controller has been set to freezing now for 3 days. i went with the method of just dropping 2 degrees celsius every 12 hours. it worked like magic. when the liquid in the airlock finally froze, it actually had more pressure coming from the fermenter. i tried this method since i planned on lagering this one for a week anyways. i also had a balloon over the airlock, which i plan on using for any beers that i want to quickly cold crash in the future. but i may continue to use this method for any beers that i want to lager for a bit of time.

 

[Homercidal]

Some people have used a balloon late in the primary to collect gas. Then when the temp drops, the gas collected gets drawn back in.

You could also purchase a sterile filter from one of the online stores and let it filter any nasties when it sucks back in.

Or you *could* just allow a little bit of air to get sucked back in by using foil or an "S" airlock. It happens so slowly that as long as the ambient air isn't saturated with bacteria it's highly unlikely to suck in enough to do any harm.

Remember that a LOT of brewers rack their beers into secondary or bottling bucket and never have a problem with infections. The odds of a problem are generally super low unless you are racking where there is a ton of the wrong bacteria, like where you crush grain, or if you have a sauerkraut container sitting open nearby...

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

S type airlock with Star San

 

[GCPHomebrew]

I wrap the top of the carboy in cling wrap. Air tight

 

[IslandLizard]

I use a small washcloth soaked in Starsan, but not dripping, and put it over the grommet hole on the bucket's lid. With a carboy, I remove the 3-piece airlock's shuttle and stick the washcloth in the airlock body. A good spray of Starsan each day keeps them wet.

I guess with a carboy, you could wrap the opening with the Starsaned wash cloth and cover it with Al foil or plastic wrap, and rubber band it together thus creating a new sanitary airlock.

It is very possible for a "bug" to get sucked in while cold crashing.
Also, I noticed that Aluminum foil develops pin holes when used as a cover on flasks and carboys. Oh yeah!

I suspect Starsan to eat through on thinner or weaker areas. I now use the really heavy duty foil and although the amount of pin holes is way reduced, there are still a few appearing. Check if you can see light shining "through" your foil when aimed at a strong light source.

Again, impeccable sanitation whenever handling yeast cultures is paramount. Don't forget to turn your domestic heating/cooling air off.

 

[joshesmusica]

Good idea. I've crashed three beers since starting this with sanitized balloons over the top of the airlock.
I'm in Norway where there's no such thing as central units!

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I just lift up slightly on the bucket's lid to let a small amount of air into the fermentor, to equalize the pressure inside, and keep an eye on the StarSan level in the airlock so it doesn't run dry.

For extra care you may want to spray the lid area you're going to open with StarSan first but the nasties can't climb so I don't think it's absolutely needed.

 

[iijakii]

I tried using a plug recently when cold-crasing to keep out oxygen. I forgot one simple detail, however -- unless you warm it back up that vacuum still persists. Duh, of course. But anyways, I took the plug out and air FORCIBLY was sucked in, saw my beer splash from it. It came out perfectly fine, but I'll certainly not use that method again. Also too lazy to warm it up before bottling.

I'll just stick with airlock until I get back into kegging.

 

[saeroner]

You won't taste the starsan. i've sucked like half a gallon (left blowoff tube in bucket) into a blond ale and siphoned off the top (starsan)... Didn't even notice.