When to rack into secondary?

[Brews-n-Blues]

Hi All,
I'm making a Mango - Pineapple
100% Fruit juice wine!
No preservatives and I used Lalvin 1118 Yeast. I have read in the recipe for this,
that I should leave the Wine in the first fermenter for at least 3 weeks,
then rack to either bottles or secondary fermenter. The OG reading was 1.087 on 10/25/20. The second gravity reading was .994 on 11/4/20.
It still is bubbling, but about every 3 - 4 minutes. Should I leave it in the Fermenter to reduce the settlement to around 1/4" or should I rack now for a little more clarification?
Not sure on this, since wine is style a little bit of a mystery.
Any thoughts?
Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

Moved to Wine Making forum

 

[Brews-n-Blues]

Sorry, I thought I posted in the Wine forum?

 

[bernardsmith]

A reading of .994 means that for all intents and purposes all the sugars have been fermented. That it is bubbling suggests that either the wine is self degassing or there are bacteria acting on acids and other compounds they can consume. I would taste the wine and perhaps monitor the pH to see if it is stable. But at .994 all active fermentation has ended. Your wine should be brut dry though it is possible that there could be a perception of sweetness (though with mangoes I would not bet the farm on that). My money is on outgassing (changes in ambient air pressure and temperature can force CO2 out as the amount that the liquid can hold is reduced as airpressure increases and temperatures in the room rise). To inhibit bacterial action you might want to add the equivalent of 1 crushed) Campden tab per gallon.
Good luck

 

[Brews-n-Blues]

Thank you for the input.
If It's a 2-1/2 gal batch, would 2 campden tablets be enough or should I use 3? Also, to slightly carbonate the Wine in the bottles, do I still need to backsweeten/prime with sugar?

 

[Maylar]

I would only use 1 tablet if you intend to bottle carbonate. And yes, you'll need more sugar.

 

[Brews-n-Blues]

I would only use 1 tablet if you intend to bottle carbonate. And yes, you'll need more sugar.

Thank you.
Since this fermentation was a lot faster then expected, how long do you think I should condition in the bottles before It's ready to drink?

 

[Coffee49]

After adding sugar and bottling stand bottles upright for 2 days to ensure no yeast malfeasan is present. Then find a horizontal home for them for 4 months. I tend to assign a future holiday or event instead of months, wine is complex in its juvenile stage and needs time to mature

 

[Maylar]

Thank you.
Since this fermentation was a lot faster then expected, how long do you think I should condition in the bottles before It's ready to drink?

For beer and cider it's typically 3 weeks at room temp. Remember that you'll need pressure rated bottles, not corks.

 

[bernardsmith]

I don't know that you can both successfully carbonate AND back sweeten unless you want to cook the wine - that is pasteurize AFTER the wine has FULLY carbonated but if you are heating carbonated wine in sealed vessels then you are expanding the CO2 and if the expansion takes place in glass bottles the likely result is exploding bottles. Your call, of course, but heat and gas in a sealed, fragile and flesh cutting material is not a recipe I would advocate - ever..

 

[Brews-n-Blues]

I don't know that you can both successfully carbonate AND back sweeten unless you want to cook the wine - that is pasteurize AFTER the wine has FULLY carbonated but if you are heating carbonated wine in sealed vessels then you are expanding the CO2 and if the expansion takes place in glass bottles the likely result is exploding bottles. Your call, of course, but heat and gas in a sealed, fragile and flesh cutting material is not a recipe I would advocate - ever..

Is this the same when the Wine is made from 100% pasteurized store bought juice? No preservatives. Plus, I'll be using grolsch swing-cap bottles.

 

[bernardsmith]

Is this the same when the Wine is made from 100% pasteurized store bought juice? No preservatives. Plus, I'll be using grolsch swing-cap bottles.

Well , pasteurization can be done with UV light - so that does not "cook" the juice (our local orchards do that with apple juice) but you need commercial equipment to do that and is that juice also carbonated? If it is it could be force carbonated (much like brewers do with beer), but to do that you need a kegging system and carbon dioxide gas that you pump INTO the wine (think seltzer). So I used my words, carefully. I did not say that a sweet and carbonated wine is impossible to produce but I said that I did not think that you could do it successfully (I assumed that you had no kegging equipment and if you were adding sugar to back sweeten then there would be CO2 in the wine but far too much for it to be safely heated to a temperature needed to kill the yeast.

 

[Brews-n-Blues]

Well , pasteurization can be done with UV light - so that does not "cook" the juice (our local orchards do that with apple juice) but you need commercial equipment to do that and is that juice also carbonated? If it is it could be force carbonated (much like brewers do with beer), but to do that you need a kegging system and carbon dioxide gas that you pump INTO the wine (think seltzer). So I used my words, carefully. I did not say that a sweet and carbonated wine is impossible to produce but I said that I did not think that you could do it successfully (I assumed that you had no kegging equipment and if you were adding sugar to back sweeten then there would be CO2 in the wine but far too much for it to be safely heated to a temperature needed to kill the yeast.

So you're saying that so I DO need to pasteurized again, even though It's been pasteurized before? Isn't this process only for the removal of unwanted microbes in your Wine?
I would still want some of the yeast to remain to carbonate the Wine in the bottles, correct? I still have the priming sugar from my Brew kits, so I'd probably use half of the package which would be 2.5 oz for the 2-1/2 gal batch.
Does this sound right?

 

[Brews-n-Blues]

So you're saying that so I DO need to pasteurized again, even though It's been pasteurized before? Isn't this process only for the removal of unwanted microbes in your Wine?
I would still want some of the yeast to remain to carbonate the Wine in the bottles, correct? I still have the priming sugar from my Brew kits, so I'd probably use half of the package which would be 2.5 oz for the 2-1/2 gal batch.
Does this sound right?

I have a hand-held sanitizing light that's designed for taple tops, etc. This kills the corona virus with a close wave over the surface. Could th this work for pasteurized liquid? Also, this Wouldn't work if the liquid is already in a brown bottle, correct?

 

[bernardsmith]

Cannot speak to hand held devices but if you provide sugar for carbonation and sweetening what stops the yeast from consuming all the sugar and leaving you with more alcohol and CO2 but not another ounce of sweetness? And if you kill the yeast and then add sugar for sweetness who is producing the CO2 to carbonate? This is why you either need to force carbonate after removing or killing the yeast and adding sweetener or you need to halt the yeast in midstream by pasteurizing OR you could add enough sugar to carbonate and then add non fermentable sugars to sweeten (but those sugars often have very noticeable flavors that many dislike