When to make the jump?

[madscientist451]

If I were to do it, what system would you recommend? I really don't have thousands to spend on a sculpture and I don't have the ability to make one.

Start with a brew pot and a BIAB bag and use your kitchen stove. You don't need a sculpture, aeration, or a bunch of other things that are nice to have but not really necessary. You can do BIAB for a while or get a cooler. You can make it as simple or complicated as you want.

 

[planetscott]

Do you wear pants?

Then itis time for all grain. If you already have the 10 gallon kettle, all you need is a mashtun and a cooler will do that for you at a low price.

Don't worry about yeast starters until you want to make higher gravity beers. I use hydrated dry yeast for most of my batches. Yous should too.

 

[brewshki]

Fly or batch sparge? I think I have decided I want to do the cooler method. My question now is if I need the HLT to fly sparge or now

 

[brewshki]

I also have no issue spending a little money, but I just wanted to remove the train of thought of the sculptures. The couple hundred of the coolers is waaaaay different than the sculptures. I also already have a huge mesh bag so I could theoretically BIAB tomorrow if I wanted

 

[planetscott]

Fly or batch sparge? I think I have decided I want to do the cooler method. My question now is if I need the HLT to fly sparge or now

Batch sparge is easier, however fly sparge is not that difficult if you are creative.

This is how I fly sparge:

https://youtu.be/CUbmCBN5mE0

I since upgraded the foil to a aluminum roasting pan with holes in it to prevent channeling.

 

[Gerry_P]

Fly or batch sparge? I think I have decided I want to do the cooler method. My question now is if I need the HLT to fly sparge or now

I use the method discussed in this thread. I did it myself kinda by accident first, then I found the thread later. Super easy. (Btw I put a collander in the cooler opening, which acts as a diffuser.) I've gotten from 73 to 80% efficiency using this.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=75454

 

[jrcrilly]

It's a hobby. You should do whatever you enjoy. I brew mostly all-grain but sometimes I don't feel like setting it all up and spending the time so I do a partial extract or minimash batch. I picked up a BIAB bag recently becaue I want to experience all the brewing methods. It's all good. There's a little friendly (I hope) banter online by folks who think that what they enjoy is the only right answer - but it's not that simple.

 

[jamina1]

When do I make that jump to all grain?

I started with all-grain, albeit with 1-gallon batches.

For me, the limitation for doing a larger all-grain batch was the equipment. I don't have a burner to boil 5 gallons of wort, I don't have a method to cool 5 gallons of wort.

As an experienced 5-gallon brewer, you probably do! The only difference is the mash.

I've brewed with friends who had a cooler mashtun and an extra Hot liquor tank for sparging and all that stuff. For my all grain batches I just use a bag. I'm sure that's not "sophisticated" to some people, but the end result is that you end up with beer!

Figure out what technique you want to go with and just do it No time like the present!

 

[xben]

I started AG from day #1.. I did not want to waste my time playing with extract. My first batch was not so bad, 2nd OK, 3rd close to "good" and now (15th batch), I'm satisfied with the results.

My friends are impressed of how my brews are amazing now! I read on AG process for ~6 month before starting the hobby, and I learned a lot of things from my first brews (still learning though).

So, go ahead, don't be scared of making mistakes, this is the best way to get experience!

cheers!

 

[fosaisu]

I've brewed with friends who had a cooler mashtun and an extra Hot liquor tank for sparging and all that stuff. For my all grain batches I just use a bag. I'm sure that's not "sophisticated" to some people, but the end result is that you end up with beer!

I don't think anyone's "bagging" on BIAB, OP just said he didn't want to do it so most have been giving him advice on buying a more "traditional" (but still economical) all grain setup!

 

[DocDriza]

I was doing extract brewing for a year before i made the switch to AG. Honestly there is no NEED to move to AG if you don't want to. Personally I think its a little more fun to do AG, because there is more control with grains when creating a recipe. As a couple of people have said, there really isn't a right or wrong time to move to AG. As soon as you can afford the equipment buy it and get started with SMaSH brewing so you get used to the process.

 

[Brew_G]

You know what, folks? Brewing isn't a pissing contest. If someone wants to brew all-extract, then that's their choice as a homebrewer, and that's the right choice for them. Partial mash, BIAB, three-vessel system, gravity or pump-driven...it doesn't matter, so please stop whipping your d***s out and trying to prove you're the biggest.

OP - feel free to do what you want, and don't feel pressured into doing something you're not ready, or to go with a process you really don't want to follow. It's your choice, so take the advice for what it is!

 

[Gerry_P]

so please stop whipping your d***s out and trying to prove you're the biggest....etc.

Dude said he wanted AG advice, plenty of advice and encouragement was given, nothing more complicated than a cooler mash tun or BIAB was recommended, not one single picture of a multi-thousand dollar HERMS system was posted. Where exactly were penises displayed? Maybe I missed something.

 

[fosaisu]

Fly or batch sparge? I think I have decided I want to do the cooler method. My question now is if I need the HLT to fly sparge or now

I've only ever batch sparged. I think most everyone would agree that it's somewhat less complicated than fly sparging and requires somewhat less equipment, and most would argue that batch sparging is faster than fly sparging. I did a fair amount of research before taking the plunge into all grain and found no definitive evidence that fly sparging is superior in other respects (Denny Conn's post on batch sparging ultimately sold me on it). That said, there are dozens of debate threads on the topic (some say better efficiency with fly sparging, some say fly sparging makes sense at commercial scale but no difference at homebrew scale).

If you're looking for a cheap and easy all grain setup to start with (and remain disinterested in BIAB) then I'd definitely recommend starting with batch sparging. If you get a round Rubbermaid drink cooler (instead of one of the cheaper square coolers) you'll be OK if you decide down the road to give fly sparging a shot (as I understand it, a deeper grain bed is desirable for fly sparging so a tall/narrow coolers work better than short/wide ones). I bought a 10 gallon drink cooler when I started all grain for this very reason. I'm happy enough with batch sparging that I now wish I'd saved the money and just converted a square cooler off of craigslist. But if spending an extra $30-40 is worth it to you to preserve the option of easily switching to fly sparging down the road, go for it!

To answer your question about the hot liquor tank (i.e. do you need another big pot besides your brew kettle to do mash tun brewing): it's possible to get away without one. Someone above mentioned using a bunch of smaller pots (which seems like a PITA to monitor temps, but otherwise no different than one large HLT). The other method I've read about involves draining the first runnings from the mash tun into a plastic fermenting bucket and using it to hold the hot wort while you heat sparge water in your brew kettle. Your comfort with this depends on how comfortable you are with heating plastics. I don't know that plastic fermenting buckets are rated food safe at 140-160 degrees (likely temp of first runnings you'd be draining into the fermenting bucket), I suspect not but you could research that. Or spend $21 for a cheap aluminum tamale pot from Walmart and use that as your hot liquor tank. Tl;dr: At some point you're going to need another vessel besides your brew kettle, either to hold the first runnings while you heat sparge water in your brew kettle, or to heat the sparge water in because your brew kettle is already full of first runnings.

 

[brewshki]

Did not mean to get a lot of people all riled up. I will at some point do some BIAB batches. The bag was a cheap investment and my kettle is big enough. My curiosity as a home brewer will drive me to it. I tailored my questions more towards other systems because I have watched lots of videos about it and it looks like a ton of fun and it would let me get deeper into the process. I have no opinions about which is better or worse. I really appreciate all the words that have been written about the various methods. I'm very excited to get a cooler now. The only thing left is to decide if I need an HLT haha. I'm very excited to take the plunge.

 

[Owly055]

I first brewed in 1969 using extract....... the only thing available then. After a few batches the limited supplies available resulted in my abanding brewing for many years. A year and a half ago, I begain brewing again, and went straight to all grain. I use BIAB because it requires almost no equipment, and produces a product that is in no way inferior. Items needed are a brew kettle and a bag... and of course a way to monitor temp. I insulate my brew kettle with egg crate foam after reaching the desired temp. I brewed all grain batch number 95 Saturday.

Biab is not cool.......... but it's simple and cheap, and a good starting place. I originally intended to build a mash tun, but decided I didn't want 3 large tuns to deal with. I brew in the kitchen on the stove doing 2.5 and 3 gallon brews (mostly 3 gallon). More important than the brewing system is having a grain mill, and good accurate scales and thermometers.

I've gravitated to a hybrid system....... I mash in the same kettle I used for BIAB, but without the bag, and since I have another kettle, I just pour my mash into that kettle using a brew bag for a filter........ That brings me up to a two vessel system........ I hose out the first kettle and use it to dunk sparge .... adding another level of complexity. I have my water heater cranked up to "oh wow", so I don't need an HLT.
I'm debating going to a mash tun with a false bottom for a couple of reasons, and I'm also looking at building a reverse circulation mashing system that will start while I'm asleep. I'll probably go with the latter. In my future is an automated brew system using the water heater for an HLT so I can sparge.

The point of all this is that starting simple and cheap, lets you decide which way to go. There are a number of reasons I decided not to go with the cooler mash tun, probably the most important is the "stuck sparge". I use a lot of wheat and rye..... You can squeeze a bag....... You can't squeeze a mash tun. For this reason, I probably will always have brew bags on hand...... if worse comes to worst, I can always dump the grain tube out into the brew bag and squeeze...........


H.W.

 

[Gerry_P]

Did not mean to get a lot of people all riled up.

Nah man, you didn't rile anyone up. Except maybe the guy talking about d**cks and stuff.

 

[normonster]

Threw a Gerrybomb in herezzzz....lol. I'd recommend extract, then BIAB then three vessel. If you plan it right the first things you buy remain part of your system for a long time.

Cheers!

 

[actech]

God I wish I lived where the tap water didn't taste like dirt,smell like dirt. Leaves me buying jugs of water to make extract batches. Just can't imagine how long it would take to r/o mash, sparge water. Go for it op, I wish I could.

 

[ChefRex]

Nah man, you didn't rile anyone up. Except maybe the guy talking about d**cks and stuff.

This^^^^ ask questions, get answers, have fun, deal with a few DICKS

 

[Gerry_P]

God I wish I lived where the tap water didn't taste like dirt,smell like dirt. Leaves me buying jugs of water to make extract batches. Just can't imagine how long it would take to r/o mash, sparge water. Go for it op, I wish I could.

You probably thought of this, but would a carbon filter help? I found this thing by this guy that goes into detail about it: http://brewery.org/library/FiltBrita0596.html

 

[brewshki]

Nah man, you didn't rile anyone up. Except maybe the guy talking about d**cks and stuff.

Glad to hear it haha. Now I'm just running through scenarios about tiering the system with what I have on hand in order to avoid a pump haha. It's a fun problem to have though now that I am leaning towards the coolers and fly sparging

 

[Gerry_P]

Glad to hear it haha. Now I'm just running through scenarios about tiering the system with what I have on hand in order to avoid a pump haha. It's a fun problem to have though now that I am leaning towards the coolers and fly sparging

That's what I would do. You'll get a good feel for the process without having to worry about how to work the equipment. There's a certain satisfaction in knowing that you can brew anything you want with just a stove, pot, and cooler. It's a good idea to have a way to cool your wort quickly, but that can be as simple as a tub/sink and ice water. I don't know if that was covered yet, but that's no different than if you were doing extract.

 

[madman960]

Did one MR. Beer kit and moved to AG. It is a lot more fun and rewarding. Your personal experience may vary.

Here is how I do it. I mash like a traditional AGer except I normally mash with my boil volume. Put my grain bag in the water cooler. Dump mash into water cooler. (Not the safest, but works) Put grain bag in another pot. Dump wort back into the kettle. Put colander in water cooler and place grain bag inside. Put wort on high while grain drains and cools enough to squeeze bag. Dump into the rest of the wort and finish as usual. 80% efficiency and the beer was good.





New method I am trying:



Mashing in a rectangular Igloo cooler. Keeps ice for 5 days and does not drop temp during mash. Still dumping mash into the grain bag. Just did my first sparge. Will let you know how the beer turns out in a few weeks.

Bill

 

[brewshki]

Got the cooler system tonight for my birthday. Wasn't sure and didn't want to jinx it so I bought one more extract kit earlier today. The store also isn't open on Labor Day, so I had to buy it today if I wanted the chance to brew at all. I have an IPA that will be done soonish and then my first all grain batch.