reverendj1
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I think y'all are getting too tripped up on this. Renaming a beer and claiming it's your own recipe are two very distinct and separate things.
When is it Legit to apply your own Name to a Brew
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woozy
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"Cranberry Sauce a la Bart"
I *would* be of the school "by following a recipe I'm not doing anything unique to call it my own so I shouldn't name it" except for two life examples:
1.) "My mother's Cheat Style Chocolate Cake"
When my mother was in her twenties she typed out all her recipes onto 3 x 5 cards. These recipe were from any source. She had a recipe from Peg Bracken's "I hate to cook cookbook" for a chocolate cake. The heading she typed on the 3 x 5 card was "Chocolate Cake Cheat Style". She called it "cheat style" because it used cocoa powder instead of baker's chocolate and somehow my mother considered that "cheating". (BTW this recipe is very popular and has had a resurgence on the internet as "cock-eyed cake" and you can google it. It originally was a war-time recipe in some long forgotten women's magazine. Peg Bracken got it third-hand from a friend and the popularity of "The I Hate to Cook Cookbook" revitalized it.)
I always think of the cake as "My mother's cheat style chocolate cake" and by that I mean "the cake recipe my mother frequently used". By no stretch of the imagination, did my mother ever claim she made up the recipe and when I think of it as hers, or as mine as I frequently do, I merely mean she used it. And that's enough.
2) "Kitty Pee" or Brooklyn Brew Shop's Grapefruit Honey Ale.
I screwed up the first time I tried to make this. My efficiency was 38% and I had to substitute some hops. So I joking decided to call the batch "kitty pee". It was actually a good beer albeit a bit low alcohol. I've made it several times since. The second time with too much hop sediment and once it had a teeny infection (I called that batch "Sour Puss") but for the most part I've gotten it down to the way it should be. I feel okay naming these batches (last one is called "Kitty Krack" for reasons I can't remember but seemed funny at the time) individually and referring to the recipe in general as "Kitty Pee" because... well, even though it is Brooklyn's Brew Shop's recipe the name refers to the batches that *I* make in my kitchen with my equipment and processes and any quirks and affectations that occur thereby.
I probably would never have named this batch had it gone right from the beginning. I haven't named any of my others (except "Dragon Spit" and that *was* my own improvised recipe [and a really bad one]) and just usually say "This is an APA recipe from my LHBS". But since I *did* start naming this I feel okay with it, as long as I don't try to delude myself or anyone else that I somehow *created* the recipe. Which I didn't.
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You can't copyright a recipe.
That may seem pendantical legalize but the spirit's the same. A recipe is a public blueprint for making something, and that something once made is the individual's.
Of course when *posting* a recipe... well, I think it's important to say "This is a recipe I use" rather than "This is my recipe". And better yet, it's only fair to give credit where credit is due.
I *would* be of the school "by following a recipe I'm not doing anything unique to call it my own so I shouldn't name it" except for two life examples:
1.) "My mother's Cheat Style Chocolate Cake"
When my mother was in her twenties she typed out all her recipes onto 3 x 5 cards. These recipe were from any source. She had a recipe from Peg Bracken's "I hate to cook cookbook" for a chocolate cake. The heading she typed on the 3 x 5 card was "Chocolate Cake Cheat Style". She called it "cheat style" because it used cocoa powder instead of baker's chocolate and somehow my mother considered that "cheating". (BTW this recipe is very popular and has had a resurgence on the internet as "cock-eyed cake" and you can google it. It originally was a war-time recipe in some long forgotten women's magazine. Peg Bracken got it third-hand from a friend and the popularity of "The I Hate to Cook Cookbook" revitalized it.)
I always think of the cake as "My mother's cheat style chocolate cake" and by that I mean "the cake recipe my mother frequently used". By no stretch of the imagination, did my mother ever claim she made up the recipe and when I think of it as hers, or as mine as I frequently do, I merely mean she used it. And that's enough.
2) "Kitty Pee" or Brooklyn Brew Shop's Grapefruit Honey Ale.
I screwed up the first time I tried to make this. My efficiency was 38% and I had to substitute some hops. So I joking decided to call the batch "kitty pee". It was actually a good beer albeit a bit low alcohol. I've made it several times since. The second time with too much hop sediment and once it had a teeny infection (I called that batch "Sour Puss") but for the most part I've gotten it down to the way it should be. I feel okay naming these batches (last one is called "Kitty Krack" for reasons I can't remember but seemed funny at the time) individually and referring to the recipe in general as "Kitty Pee" because... well, even though it is Brooklyn's Brew Shop's recipe the name refers to the batches that *I* make in my kitchen with my equipment and processes and any quirks and affectations that occur thereby.
I probably would never have named this batch had it gone right from the beginning. I haven't named any of my others (except "Dragon Spit" and that *was* my own improvised recipe [and a really bad one]) and just usually say "This is an APA recipe from my LHBS". But since I *did* start naming this I feel okay with it, as long as I don't try to delude myself or anyone else that I somehow *created* the recipe. Which I didn't.
====
You can't copyright a recipe.
That may seem pendantical legalize but the spirit's the same. A recipe is a public blueprint for making something, and that something once made is the individual's.
Of course when *posting* a recipe... well, I think it's important to say "This is a recipe I use" rather than "This is my recipe". And better yet, it's only fair to give credit where credit is due.
Beernik
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Genius! Now need to name a beer "Monkey Balls _______". Maybe my Brett IPA. It smells like sweaty horses and gym lockers.
I made a crappy blueberry hefe once. I called it "Annoying Blueberry" because it had just enough blueberry flavor to be noticeable by the drinker and leave them unsatisfied.
When I made my Moteuka Amber, it was inspired by Uinta's SUM'R which is a Sorachi Blonde. I decided to do something similar when I was helping someone try to clone SUM'R.
When I posted the recipe for the Moteuka Amber, I credited Uinta's SUM'R as being the inspiration for it. Is the recipe mine? I think so. It certainly isn't theirs.
"Drom John" goes on every label.
1) It identifies that I made it.
2) It marks that the bottle should be returned to me.
My latest bottled brew is "Drom John Innis & Gunn Clone."
I haven't followed a recipe in over 2 years. If I want to brew an English Robust Porter I do three things.
1-Go to "Designing Better Beer" to get an idea what grains and hops to use and look for percentages.
2-Go to the BJCP style pages and see what grains are generally used and what types of flavors and aromas it should have
3-Go to BeerSmith, select the style and then start plugging in grains and hops to match the guidlines.
I guess that makes my brews MINE and I get the right to name them.
1-Go to "Designing Better Beer" to get an idea what grains and hops to use and look for percentages.
2-Go to the BJCP style pages and see what grains are generally used and what types of flavors and aromas it should have
3-Go to BeerSmith, select the style and then start plugging in grains and hops to match the guidlines.
I guess that makes my brews MINE and I get the right to name them.
fermentednonsense
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I have a friend who just started brewing, and I'll tell you what I told him. "Not naming your homebrewery is like not naming your boat, it's bad luck!"
Randy_Bugger
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Sorry kids, you can't name your beer unless you are a professional brewery.
I have only brewed recipes that I throw together on beer smith, (so far) more to give me a handle on nuances of ingredients. Naming the beer kind of gives it a presence of it's own. Keeps things from being confused between batches.
fermentednonsense
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You CAN name your beers if you're not a professional brewery. You just can't sell it. Many "professional breweries" started off as home brewers, and the names of their beers even carried over.
Beernik
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I must admit my beer names do tend to be rather literal. Such as "Year Characteristic Style". So it will be "2012 Citra-Pumpkin Saison" and "2013 Moteuka Amber". Right now I'm fermenting "2013 Brett IPA" and writing a recipe for "2014 Barleywine".
Simple names make the filing easier.
Sometimes I do give them more fun names on the label.
2013 Moteuka Amber is also called Sommergarten.
2013 Cherry Schwarzbock is also called Cherry Schwarzenator.
2013 Cyser is also called 3 Goats Gruff Cyser.
Simple names make the filing easier.
Sometimes I do give them more fun names on the label.
2013 Moteuka Amber is also called Sommergarten.
2013 Cherry Schwarzbock is also called Cherry Schwarzenator.
2013 Cyser is also called 3 Goats Gruff Cyser.
Good grief, there are a ton of self-selected beer police telling other brewers what they can't do.
Here's my simple two cents.
If I brewed it, its mine- even if it is a kit or a recipe that I followed to the t. I bought the ingredients, I spent the time and effort to make it, I will call it whatever the heck I want to. Sweat equity, baby. Anyone who thinks I don't have that right, tough. Call your beer what you want.
Now if I'm posting the recipe on a forum, then yes, by all means, I shouldn't pass it off as mine if I got it from another brewer or reverse engineered it from the contents of a kit. In that case, I should say where I got it from.
Here's my simple two cents.
If I brewed it, its mine- even if it is a kit or a recipe that I followed to the t. I bought the ingredients, I spent the time and effort to make it, I will call it whatever the heck I want to. Sweat equity, baby. Anyone who thinks I don't have that right, tough. Call your beer what you want.
Now if I'm posting the recipe on a forum, then yes, by all means, I shouldn't pass it off as mine if I got it from another brewer or reverse engineered it from the contents of a kit. In that case, I should say where I got it from.
Randy_Bugger
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Clearly, you CAN name your beer as a homebrewer. People do it all the time.
However, it's NOT legit because I said so.
However, it's NOT legit because I said so.
paperairplane
Well-Known Member
This is never resolved even at the professional level. I follow beerpulse on FB and almost daily there is a new trademark / copyright infringement suite. Some brewery is using some other breweries name, beer name, etc.
I live in WV and thought it would be clever to make a Coal themed stout - there's probably 2 dozen already on the market.
Seeing as almost every drop I brew gets drank by me or my family, in my house - I can call it what I want.
I agree that if you post a recipe, it should either credit the base recipe, or be something you developed.
I live in WV and thought it would be clever to make a Coal themed stout - there's probably 2 dozen already on the market.
Seeing as almost every drop I brew gets drank by me or my family, in my house - I can call it what I want.
I agree that if you post a recipe, it should either credit the base recipe, or be something you developed.
Hamaki
Well-Known Member
I'll give a name to a recipe I've developed on my own or that I think is different enough from the source(s) of inspiration that I'd consider it a different beer. If the batch turns out crappy it gets no real name - only a description...like the mugwort ale I tried awhile back.
Try as I might, however, I don't think I've managed to find all the same ingredients, hit the same mash temps, follow the same fermentation regime, etc. as some of the recipes I've copied. I still call 'em by the originator's name, however, because that's my target. I've tried a few of Edworts recipes and they were great. May not be very similar to what he has on tap, but I thoroughly enjoy my renditions of his recipes and keep the original names.
Try as I might, however, I don't think I've managed to find all the same ingredients, hit the same mash temps, follow the same fermentation regime, etc. as some of the recipes I've copied. I still call 'em by the originator's name, however, because that's my target. I've tried a few of Edworts recipes and they were great. May not be very similar to what he has on tap, but I thoroughly enjoy my renditions of his recipes and keep the original names.
I think I'm with the general sentiment here. I've brewed Centennial Blonde a couple of times, both had modifications. The first used a different crystal, because I had it on hand. In the second I increased the hops. I called them "Centennial Blonde A" and Centennial Blonde B". Crazy, right? When I made Bee Cave Haus Pale, I changed some of the malts and hops, and used two different yeasts. I still called it Bee Cave Haus Pale, "N" and "05" for notty and US-05. But I was kidded on that thread: "So, the only thing you didn't change was the two row?". I guess I could call that my own recipe, really inspired by Bee Cave.
I do wonder this about that though: what are the standards for submitting it to competition? Are any published? If I brew out of a book, can I submit it for competition? Should I use the name it was published under? Or is that copyright infringement? I certainly wouldn't claim a recipe as mine if it isn't. Would I just use the style name? And, how much change makes it yours for competition? Or do they care?
I do wonder this about that though: what are the standards for submitting it to competition? Are any published? If I brew out of a book, can I submit it for competition? Should I use the name it was published under? Or is that copyright infringement? I certainly wouldn't claim a recipe as mine if it isn't. Would I just use the style name? And, how much change makes it yours for competition? Or do they care?
I only think about a name if I am giving the beer away. Most of my beer is my own recipe. The odds of the recipe being completely unique is unlikely. I would love to see a completely unique Pale Ale recipe.
BorealBrewer
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If I brew someone else's recipe, it's a cover version. The end product may be superior to the original, or appeal to other tastes than the original. My Co3C is not what Biermuncher originally brewed - Hendrix's All Along the Watchtower is not Bob Dylan's, but they both played Dylan's song.
If I am inspired by a recipe, but make significant changes - I'm sampling. Credit should be given to the original artist, but it's my original work. Co3C with WILD rice subbing for instant rice is a similar situation to Coldplay using Kraftwerk's Computer Love and the basis for Talk. It's mine, but it was helped to finish by someone else's direct inspiration.
(Conversely - I 'sample' a recipe without some credit in the name/on the label, that's not cool. To extend the Coldplay reference, this gets into Viva la Vida-is-actually-Joe-Satriani's-If I Could Fly territory...not cool.)
If it's my own, but similar to/ derivative of someone else's recipe - it's still original work. I brew a wheat beer using weizen yeast, and it's on style - I get to name it. It might taste like every other weizen, but it's mine.
Music analogy - it might be a country (or any genre) song, it might sound like that other country song, but it's my work, I name it.
Innovators/Revivers/Scholars deserve special credit - these are folks who pioneer new styles, ingredients, methods, etc., or do significant work to bring something back from the past. These folks get to name their style, or method, and defend it - but just like in music, style/genre will spread, and others will innovate.
My 2 cents. Which, in Canada, is now rounded down to nothing. So take my opinion for what it's worth!
If I am inspired by a recipe, but make significant changes - I'm sampling. Credit should be given to the original artist, but it's my original work. Co3C with WILD rice subbing for instant rice is a similar situation to Coldplay using Kraftwerk's Computer Love and the basis for Talk. It's mine, but it was helped to finish by someone else's direct inspiration.
(Conversely - I 'sample' a recipe without some credit in the name/on the label, that's not cool. To extend the Coldplay reference, this gets into Viva la Vida-is-actually-Joe-Satriani's-If I Could Fly territory...not cool.)
If it's my own, but similar to/ derivative of someone else's recipe - it's still original work. I brew a wheat beer using weizen yeast, and it's on style - I get to name it. It might taste like every other weizen, but it's mine.
Music analogy - it might be a country (or any genre) song, it might sound like that other country song, but it's my work, I name it.
Innovators/Revivers/Scholars deserve special credit - these are folks who pioneer new styles, ingredients, methods, etc., or do significant work to bring something back from the past. These folks get to name their style, or method, and defend it - but just like in music, style/genre will spread, and others will innovate.
My 2 cents. Which, in Canada, is now rounded down to nothing. So take my opinion for what it's worth!
jrgtr42
Well-Known Member
I don't normally name my beers - but if it's a clone I use that as descriptor if I'm sharing - Heart of Darkness clone, RR COnsecration clone, etc.
I brewed one based on the New Albion that Sam Adams made last year, but I tweaked it a bit, so I called it Newer Albion, then a second time, tweaking even more, so I called that Newest Albion.
I did name one, a smoked dark IPA, called it Night in the Woods, because that was the vibe I was going for (missed on the first attempt, will try again tweaking some things about it,)
My take is if someone wants to name their beers, more power to them, if they don't, well, that's fine too.
I brewed one based on the New Albion that Sam Adams made last year, but I tweaked it a bit, so I called it Newer Albion, then a second time, tweaking even more, so I called that Newest Albion.
I did name one, a smoked dark IPA, called it Night in the Woods, because that was the vibe I was going for (missed on the first attempt, will try again tweaking some things about it,)
My take is if someone wants to name their beers, more power to them, if they don't, well, that's fine too.
If I am cloning somebody's recipe I will name the beer what they named it. However, if I spend the time doing the calculations, investigating the ingredients and looking over style characteristics I will name the beer whatever I would like, even if I have adapted another recipe.
Clonefan94
Senior Member
I'm with you. I don't know why, but naming beers has just never really appealed to me. I had a friend ask me this past Saturday, "What do you call this?" To which I responded, "Vanilla Porter."
I don't really have anything against it, I did name my brewery, although that came from the model railroad I built my kids years ago and I put a brewery on there. I wonder if I bottled and labeled if I'd feel more inclined. I guess it's just easier to call it what it is for me.
Desvio
Well-Known Member
If it was my recipe and you followed it to the letter and it makes you happy, at least give me some credit.
If you made changes to my recipe and it makes you happy, I don't want any credit whatsoever.
And most importantly if you brewed it and it makes you happy, name it whatever you want, I'm too happy to care.
If you made changes to my recipe and it makes you happy, I don't want any credit whatsoever.
And most importantly if you brewed it and it makes you happy, name it whatever you want, I'm too happy to care.
HuskerBrewer
Member
That's the key to this whole thread! If you're going to name a beer, it better be something you're comfortable saying in front of your beer drinking buddies. If I tell my friends I brewed "Dark Lord Morgadeath's Vanilla Demon-Slayer Porter" then I'm a complete tool, regardless of how creative or original the recipe.
Not paying child support makes you a complete tool.
Cutting off people in traffic makes you a complete tool.
Getting in the express check-out with 40 items in your cart makes you a complete tool.
Giving your beer a long name makes you somebody who likes long names for your beers.
Calling people complete tools for enjoying their beer their way, on the other hand, kinda toolish.
HuskerBrewer said:
Yep. Next porter name will be "HuskerBrewer's Dark Lord Morgadeath's Vanilla Demon-Slayer Porter".
Very interesting question. My club.. the Sonoma Beerocrats were invited to brew up at Bear Republic Brewing here in Sonoma County. We had teams up there and they supplied everything we needed. We filled our fermenters with their wort and took them home to pitch, ferment and bottle/keg.
I've had a few and they were all different despite all having the same base liquid. Different hops.. different amounts of hops.. different yeast in some.. different brewing temps.. you name it.
Some loved their beers.. and I've heard one or two say they made dumpers..now THAT is sad. I wish I could have been there for that day.. but, I was out of state. Actually, I was out of my mind for being out of state. If we are fortunate, BR will have us back again. Bear Republic is truly a gracious host.
I've had a few and they were all different despite all having the same base liquid. Different hops.. different amounts of hops.. different yeast in some.. different brewing temps.. you name it.
Some loved their beers.. and I've heard one or two say they made dumpers..now THAT is sad. I wish I could have been there for that day.. but, I was out of state. Actually, I was out of my mind for being out of state. If we are fortunate, BR will have us back again. Bear Republic is truly a gracious host.
JohnSand said:
If you brew it, you can name it. The recipe ingredients are probably the easiest thing to nail down. There are a hundreds of other variables.
When I first started brewing I always had a quarter once of hops left or a few ounces of grain, now everything round to the nearest half once or pound, mash temperatures are still the bane of my existence and I want a get out jail free card until I get my fermentation chamber done.
Meh. Regardless of what I brew...HME, Partial Mash, AG..I just write "Amber Ale" , "Stout" etc on the labels, as well as the date they were brewed and estimated abv..
But I figure, as long as you did something to it to "make it your own", it should be okay to affix your name to it.
But I figure, as long as you did something to it to "make it your own", it should be okay to affix your name to it.
I do some of that too. For Bee Cave, I didn't have Munich malt, but I did have Munich LME mixed with some Pilsner. (From having brewed with part of two cans, the mixed the leftovers) In it went. And while I wanted to up the hops in the CB, I decided just how much based on what I had left in open bags.
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If you want to take someones recipe and name it something "catchy" or "meaningful" for your drinkin buddies, by all means go for it. For example, I took mysticmeads "raging red irish ale" recipe (found here) and it was wildly popular with my pals. I called it "Welty's Killer Red" (it's a long story...)
Do you think Mystic gives a sh**?? (Sorry mystic) Or my pals know who mysticmead is?
Now on the other hand.. If I were to post or otherwise publicize this recipe as my own, well.. then I would be a complete and utter tool....
Do you think Mystic gives a sh**?? (Sorry mystic) Or my pals know who mysticmead is?
Now on the other hand.. If I were to post or otherwise publicize this recipe as my own, well.. then I would be a complete and utter tool....
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