What's the point of drying malted barley?

[sonysasankan]

Hi, new to the whole brewing scene. I'm overloading on youtube videos and keep seeing pretty much eyeryone drying the wheat / barley after sprouting. None of them explain why though. I understand its necessary if its for storage. I want to know if this step can be skipped? I mean just use the freshly sprouted grain to make your wort?

 

[Henbrew]

I'm no expert here but you wouldn't want the barley to actually sprout further because then the sprout would be using up the starches for it's own growth rather than by us for brewing. So you dry to stop the barely from sprouting and so that it can be stored without spoiling.

 

[hotbeer]

When it's sprouting, it's consuming stuff in the grain that you want. Drying the malts stop that process at the ideal time for getting from it what we want from it. Otherwise it'd go past the point where there wouldn't be anything left useful to a brewer. Remember it's alive and changing into something else.

Also, moisture would let all the microbial bad stuff, molds, fungi, yeasts, bacteria and other things that that clings to the grains become active and grow to a toxic level. Moldy grain isn't a great taste and indeed aflatoxin is a real thing to avoid.

Kilning adds some character to the malt. And trying to mill freshly malted moist grain would get pretty gummy in the mill I'd think. But I don't really know. Some of the people that actually do their own malts will be along soon.

 

[lurker18]

To stop the process, if you didn't dry it. the growing endosperm would consume the sugars you want to make beer.

 

[madscientist451]

The above answers are all valid, but here's another: when the malt is dried, the sprouted part dries too and is the more easily broken off and separated from the grain. I read somewhere that the sprout portion produces an undesirable flavor in the beer. So while you could just sprout the barley, crush it up and make some beer with it, its better to dry it first.

 

[Elric]

Kilning adds some character to the malt. And trying to mill freshly malted moist grain would get pretty gummy in the mill I'd think. But I don't really know. Some of the people that actually do their own malts will be along soon.

I would go one step further and say kilning adds most of the character to the malt. Only difference between pilsner malt and black malt is the degree of kilning. I would imagine an unkilned malt would just taste very grassy and one dimensional.

 

[lurker18]

I would go one step further and say kilning adds most of the character to the malt. Only difference between pilsner malt and black malt is the degree of kilning. I would imagine an unkilned malt would just taste very grassy and one dimensional.

100% agree, but there is a huge difference between kilning and drying. Drying is just bringing the moisture down to a stable level, usually about 3-5% using moderately warm air. Kilning is where the magic happens, and that can be done on both wet grain as well as dry grain, malted and unmalted. Depending on what grain is being kilned, how hot and fast it is kilned, that determines the end product.

 

[PCABrewing]

It may also be pretty difficult to clean-up the malt by removing the rootlets and acrospire when they are still wet and flexible.

 

[camonick]

It may also be pretty difficult to clean-up the malt by removing the rootlets and acrospire when they are still wet and flexible.

Exactly. You can’t mill grain that isn’t dry. It would be a sticky, gummy mess.

 

[camonick]

Hi, new to the whole brewing scene. I'm overloading on youtube videos and keep seeing pretty much eyeryone drying the wheat / barley after sprouting. None of them explain why though. I understand its necessary if its for storage. I want to know if this step can be skipped? I mean just use the freshly sprouted grain to make your wort?

Another quick question? Is this something you’re wanting to try just for the fun of it or to try and save a little bit of money? I ask because there are actually VERY few home brewers who malt their own grain. It’s much easier and you’ll have a more consistent outcome by buying it online or at your LHBS. @bracconiere is the resident home malt guru around these parts. Maybe he can coach you along if that’s what you want to do.

 

[Elric]

100% agree, but there is a huge difference between kilning and drying. Drying is just bringing the moisture down to a stable level, usually about 3-5% using moderately warm air. Kilning is where the magic happens, and that can be done on both wet grain as well as dry grain, malted and unmalted. Depending on what grain is being kilned, how hot and fast it is kilned, that determines the end product.

Agreed on difference between drying and kilning. My comment was more in direct response to the last line of the OP where he asks why not just brew directly with the fresh sprouted malt. That would lead to a very grassy one dimensional product, and the kilning not the drying is where the real intricacies of malt flavours are made.

cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

Hi, new to the whole brewing scene. I'm overloading on youtube videos and keep seeing pretty much eyeryone drying the wheat / barley after sprouting. None of them explain why though. I understand its necessary if its for storage. I want to know if this step can be skipped? I mean just use the freshly sprouted grain to make your wort?

drying is about the enzymes you need to preserve for mashing the malt....green malt would taste foul, so it needs to be kilned...and that requires the enzymes to first be 'demobilized', if they're to wet that would be free to basically shake apart at the higher temp, and denature....so you dry the malt first at room temp, so that the enzymes are like frozen and don't shake apart in the kiln....

i personally use a stack of sweater drying racks for this, and a box fan blowing room temp air over the malt for 24 hours....then into a 160-200f oven for 12 to kiln, temp depends on my mood

 

[Kickass]

Are you malting your own grain? As stated by @camonick, for a normal brew day, this is not something most brewers do. Most buy their grains already malted.

 

[bracconiere]

Kilning is where the magic happens, and that can be done on both wet grain as well as dry grain, malted and unmalted.

kinda false....if you're kilning wet grain, you'd want to hold it at 150f for an hour to mash in the kernel so to speak, then hit it with the heat to make crystal malt....

edit: otherwise you won't be able to mash with it...the enzymes will be denatured, and you didn't even get the grain to convert in the husk, so a loss of a lot of potenial sugar.....

 

[bracconiere]

Are you malting your own grain? As stated by @camonick, for a normal brew day, this is not something most brewers do. Most buy their grains already malted.

i'm a poor boy....so yes! it works out to, well now anyway, 48 cents a pound for my homemalt.....

 

[Kickass]

@bracconiere, I was going to say, with the exception of two brewers on here, nobody malts their own barley. But thought it'd be taken too literally. I forget about green text.

 

[bracconiere]

@bracconiere, I was going to say, with the exception of two brewers on here, nobody malts their own barley. But thought it'd be taken too literally. I forget about green text.

Are you malting your own grain? As stated by @camonick, for a normal brew day, this is not something most brewers do. Most buy their grains already malted.

i thought that was directed at me, my mistake.....

i assume if the OP is asking about drying the sprouts, they haven't started actually malting yet....

 

[sonysasankan]

Thanks guys. Super helpful! I always assumed the enzymes would all be denatured in the heat while boiling anyway, and drying seemed like an extra step that achieved nothing. I never factored in workability and gumming up... makes sense. I dont plan on malting in the future (looks like a PITA), but want to try it out once just for the experience. Im anyways waiting for some of my orders to get delivered, and was getting trigger happy with some whole wheat and barley I got locally

 

[bracconiere]

I always assumed the enzymes would all be denatured in the heat while boiling anyway,

you need to mash at 150f, with cracked malt? because yeah, if you're boiling it, the enzymes will denature....plus tannins will come into it?


the enzymes will even denature at that temp, but not before they get worked to death. and get the job done....


145f-158 is called the brewers window...because that where the enzymes work fastes, and get the most work done. they work at 100f, but by the time they do the job you'll have sour beer... and they all denature after 162f.....in a second or two...


but back on topic....if you dry your barley sprouts, the enzymes can handle 220f , and not denature.....

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks guys. Super helpful! I always assumed the enzymes would all be denatured in the heat while boiling anyway, and drying seemed like an extra step that achieved nothing. I never factored in workability and gumming up... makes sense. I dont plan on malting in the future (looks like a PITA), but want to try it out once just for the experience. Im anyways waiting for some of my orders to get delivered, and was getting trigger happy with some whole wheat and barley I got locally

It is basically only about the ability to easily remove the root of the sprout, when dry. Otherwise, the grain doesn't need to be milled, it only needs to be flattened so that enough cracks are in the hull. I think there are multiple studies going on on how to make green malt work to be able to save the energy that's necessary to dry it.

 

[bracconiere]

It is basically only about the ability to easily remove the root of the sprout, when dry.

i don't want to get in a fight but....enzymes are krinckled amide linkages of amino acids. when there is water present they are 'free' to move around and will unkrinkle....if the malt is dry then they are frozen in place and can take the heat.....

for example this is wikipedia pic of beta-amylase, if it moves around to fast, heat applied,. it will exploded....

but if it doesn't have any water to move around in, it's stable even with heat.....


but you are right that rootlets taste bad!!!

 

[Miraculix]

i don't want to get in a fight but....enzymes are krinckled amide linkages of amino acids. when there is water present they are 'free' to move around and will unkrinkle....if the malt is dry then they are frozen in place and can take the heat.....

for example this is wikipedia pic of beta-amylase, if it moves around to fast, heat applied,. it will exploded....


View attachment 759305


but if it doesn't have any water to move around in, it's stable even with heat.....


but you are right that rootlets taste bad!!!

Yes, of course. If you want to treat the malt further with heat after malting, then drying is essential (unless you want to make crystal malt with lower heat). But if not, no drying necessary, except for the root.

 

[bracconiere]

Yes, of course. If you want to treat the malt further with heat after malting, then drying is essential (unless you want to make crystal malt with lower heat). But if not, no drying necessary, except for the root.

now that i think about it....way back when, when i first tried malting. i tried it with green malt run through a food proccessor...and it wouldn't sparge!

 

[Miraculix]

now that i think about it....way back when, when i first tried malting. i tried it with green malt run through a food proccessor...and it wouldn't sparge!

Maybe 50/50 would work? Although food processor really sounds like malt sludge is comming out of it already

Did you ever make home made crystal m.....alt?

 

[bracconiere]

Did you ever make home made crystal m.....alt?

my system for making crystal m....alt now is sprouting 5-10lbs barley in a cooler, then putting it in the oven in a container with lid. getting it to 150f. killing the heat, let it sit. then drying it. then roasting it low and slow, something like 250-270f for 12 hours....no way i can roast it hot and fast.. it makes a unique flavor....

 

[Miraculix]

my system for making crystal m....alt now is sprouting 5-10lbs barley in a cooler, then putting it in the oven in a container with lid. getting it to 150f. killing the heat, let it sit. then drying it. then roasting it low and slow, something like 250-270f for 12 hours....no way i can roast it hot and fast.. it makes a unique flavor....

I once made crystal rice. Mashed it with enzymes in a thermos flask and then spread it on a baking sheat and baked it for an hour. Was certainly interesting but somehow wasn`t worth the hustle. My gluten free times are over anyway, wich I am pretty glad about.

Your crystal sounds like more fun to me.

 

[Bilsch]

It's interesting to note that KU Leuven university is working on how to use green malt directly without the energy intensive drying process. TBH I'm not sure I really want them to succeed in this process though.

 

[bracconiere]

energy intensive drying process.

say what? i don't consider letting a box fan run for a day 'energy intensive'? but i am only drying 20lbs of malt.....still though?

I once made crystal rice. Mashed it with enzymes in a thermos flask and then spread it on a baking sheat and baked it for an hour. Was certainly interesting but somehow wasn`t worth the hustle. My gluten free times are over anyway, wich I am pretty glad about.

Your crystal sounds like more fun to me.

yeah, i've tried malting brown rice before....

 

[Miraculix]

It's interesting to note that KU Leuven university is working on how to use green malt directly without the energy intensive drying process. TBH I'm not sure I really want them to succeed in this process though.

Yes, that are the guys I was remebering somewhere above. I just couldn't remeber who it was exactly.

 

[Bilsch]

From limited experience making my own malt, there for sure is magic that happens in the drying and kilning process.

 

[bracconiere]

From limited experience making my own malt, there for sure is magic that happens in the drying and kilning process.

it often amazes me how much different the flavors are from wet and dry heat.....when i first 'tried' malting, i figured what's the point of kilning at 160f? it's going to be at 212f for an hour anyway...night and day difference....