What's the difference?
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gregkeller
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The biggest difference is control. When the majority of your fermentables come from extract the producer of that extract gets to decide what your wort ends up like. All grain you are the one who gets to decide every last detail of your wort production. There are so many nuances, or variables you have the ability to change when it comes to producing exactly the wort you want to produce when brewing all grain. Extract you are sort of at the mercy of the extract producer.
Just as one example, say you want to produce a nice crisp, dry IPA. All grain you would use mostly base malt, and mash very low (148 deg F or so) this would allow your yeast to eat through more of the sugars. If you tried to do the same recipe with extract you would have no idea what temperature the maltster mashed the grains at.
I have no doubt you can produce award winning beers with fresh extract and good practices, but ask most of the award winning brewers and i'm sure very few of them brew extract.
Just as one example, say you want to produce a nice crisp, dry IPA. All grain you would use mostly base malt, and mash very low (148 deg F or so) this would allow your yeast to eat through more of the sugars. If you tried to do the same recipe with extract you would have no idea what temperature the maltster mashed the grains at.
I have no doubt you can produce award winning beers with fresh extract and good practices, but ask most of the award winning brewers and i'm sure very few of them brew extract.
Ive done all three. For me it depends on the mood, time, and whats available. Ive made a couple great beers with extract, and it came out totally different when trying to copy it with an all grain batch. Ill be continuing to do all three including kits for the foreseeable future.
Grain is cheaper than extract. But I use mostly AG batches because it's fun. It reaches back in time, like camping or wood carving. Extract is a good way to start, and a much quicker process. Do what you like, progress at your own pace.
It so much depends on the extract. Fresh extract, you probably don't need to mash grains to add flavor. Older extract, grains will help.
If I were to give advice to someone new, I would recommend full boil BIAB. You can do the burner / pot / bag / chiller for not a lot of money, and have all the creative license with your beer you want.
If I were to give advice to someone new, I would recommend full boil BIAB. You can do the burner / pot / bag / chiller for not a lot of money, and have all the creative license with your beer you want.
dkevinb
Well-Known Member
AG versus extract is like baking a cake from scratch versus using a cake mix. Partial mash is kind of like making the cake from a mix but making the frosting from scratch. They all make really good cakes.
AG is cheaper and gives you total control, but takes longer. Depending on your method it also takes more equipment. But it's also just cool to start with a bag of grain and turn it into beer.
Extract is much faster but limits your options and is more expensive. But it is MUCH faster. You can also do it in the kitchen with less equipment a lot more easily than AG. A big plus for a lot of people.
Partial mash - One I haven't really done. I went from extract/steeping grains to BIAB AG, so I didn't really see the point in this one. More options than extract, but takes longer and is kind of in between price-wise.
AG is cheaper and gives you total control, but takes longer. Depending on your method it also takes more equipment. But it's also just cool to start with a bag of grain and turn it into beer.
Extract is much faster but limits your options and is more expensive. But it is MUCH faster. You can also do it in the kitchen with less equipment a lot more easily than AG. A big plus for a lot of people.
Partial mash - One I haven't really done. I went from extract/steeping grains to BIAB AG, so I didn't really see the point in this one. More options than extract, but takes longer and is kind of in between price-wise.
On the question of All grain over partial mash: with partial mash you need to get that extract out the tin and mix it in well, so an all grain batch could be argued to be easier so long as you have the space, equipment and a good enough water heater.
On partial mash over just extract: In addition the the reasons that others have listed, you can use other ingredients to produce other styles of beer that you would be unable to do (or find it harder to do) otherwise, e.g. using oats for an oatmeal stout, flaked barley, mashing with herbs or hops, doing a sour mash for a Berliner Weisse, using unmalted wheat for a witbier etc.
For me mashing is also the most fun part of the production process, and it smells wonderful
On partial mash over just extract: In addition the the reasons that others have listed, you can use other ingredients to produce other styles of beer that you would be unable to do (or find it harder to do) otherwise, e.g. using oats for an oatmeal stout, flaked barley, mashing with herbs or hops, doing a sour mash for a Berliner Weisse, using unmalted wheat for a witbier etc.
For me mashing is also the most fun part of the production process, and it smells wonderful
Nope. I can do an all grain batch in about the same time as an extract batch. BIAB makes it as fast as an extract batch and the cost is about half of what extract batches cost.
Depending on how I feel or what I have to spend, I do anything from AE to PB/PM BIAB. I'll mash up to some 6lbs of grains & the 3lbs or so of extract go in at flame out. Use all the hops loose in the boil & pour into fermenter after chilling through a dual layer fine mesh strainer. Very little trub & yeast in primary by bottling day.
I think PM adds complexities you can't get entirely with extract. Like mashing with Maris Otter, Special B, Melanoidin malt & the like. I don't know as I'd say it makes the beer fresher, but that's a pretty close descriptor. I like how PM lets me add more flavor complexities to the extract part of the beer. And how certain extracts added give their own unique flavors & colors to the beer. Then there's the subtle differences between adding LME or DME at flame out in the same or similar beer. I'm not sure exactly how to say it, but LME seems to have more depth of flavor than DME. But DME holds it's color & flavor better. The December BYO has a good continuing article on malts that talks in more detail about SG per pound per gallon of water & flavors/aromas too. Good read. I need to get the earlier mags it mentions for the rest of the series. I'm already learning what to use in the mash to replace a lot of the extract in my Burton Ale AE recipe.
I think PM adds complexities you can't get entirely with extract. Like mashing with Maris Otter, Special B, Melanoidin malt & the like. I don't know as I'd say it makes the beer fresher, but that's a pretty close descriptor. I like how PM lets me add more flavor complexities to the extract part of the beer. And how certain extracts added give their own unique flavors & colors to the beer. Then there's the subtle differences between adding LME or DME at flame out in the same or similar beer. I'm not sure exactly how to say it, but LME seems to have more depth of flavor than DME. But DME holds it's color & flavor better. The December BYO has a good continuing article on malts that talks in more detail about SG per pound per gallon of water & flavors/aromas too. Good read. I need to get the earlier mags it mentions for the rest of the series. I'm already learning what to use in the mash to replace a lot of the extract in my Burton Ale AE recipe.
M42
Member
A lot of folks will tell you all grain tastes better, but I've brewed beer from canned kits that have blown people away, including my neighbor who is an all grain brewer.
As far as control goes, I can take a canned kit add steeping grains, hops, minerals to the water and change the yeast which will all vary the end flavor of the product. So, you do have some control with that type of brewing too. To me, the biggest difference is cost - all grain is cheaper, but takes a lot more of your time. If you have the time and want ultimate control then do it. I take a compromise approach, maximizing my time while still applying a great degree of control over what I brew.
As far as control goes, I can take a canned kit add steeping grains, hops, minerals to the water and change the yeast which will all vary the end flavor of the product. So, you do have some control with that type of brewing too. To me, the biggest difference is cost - all grain is cheaper, but takes a lot more of your time. If you have the time and want ultimate control then do it. I take a compromise approach, maximizing my time while still applying a great degree of control over what I brew.
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Brewers make wort. Yeast makes beer.
Whats 'about the same time'? Im curious. I made a spiced honey ale on the weekend that didnt require steeping grains. I cant see adding a mash, weighing out grains, and crushing them not adding that much time to your brew session. Even if you have to steep grains, your still saving 30-60mins right off the bat depending on your mash time.
I haven't done a batch without steeping grains so missing that would be faster but with steeping grains I would steep them for 30 minutes. That's how long I mash unless I cut it shorter. I find that even a 20 minute mash is sufficient with my grains milled fine and I'll be experimenting with 10 minute mashes this winter. Once the 30 minute mash or 30 minute steep is over, the time is the same because I still have a 60 minute boil and then the chill. I multi-task so I'll be bring out the equipment while filling the pot with water. While that water is heating I'll be weighing and milling the grains. When the mash is over, I'll dump out the grains from the bag and rinse it out while the wort is approaching boil, then during the boil, I put away anything that I'm done with. If I chill the wort, I can be done, wort in the fermenter, yeast pitched and the pot clean and put away in about 3 to 3 1/2 hours. If I do only a 10 minute mash and no-chill, I can be done in 2 hours 10 minutes. I'm not certain that I will continue that short mash but the no-chill sure cuts down on the time as I don't have a chiller and instead fill a big tub with water and chill in that, adding cold water as it heats up, letting the hotter water spill onto my lawn.
Fast, and inspiring. But opening a can or bag of extract, even with steeping, is still faster.
You should search this forum. RM-MN has done a lot of experiments on quick mashes, others have joined. It may well be the next big step in simplifying homebrewing. You could search RM-MN's posts, and there is a thread titled "Ten minute mash.."
will do thanks man
MyCarHasAbs
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I moved to All Grain with a homemade mashtun, I'm never looking back. Takes longer but the results are worth it. Like driving a manual over an automatic dude.
I'd suggest you start with a 30 minute mash and see how that goes. Shorter mashes require a very finely milled grain. I've had great success with the 20 minute mashes but I'm not yet ready to recommend a 10 minute mash. Experimenting is still under way on that. I just got a refractometer so I can see the changes in the wort gravity without having to take the time to chill enough to use a hydrometer and my last batch took more than the 10 minutes as I learned how to use the refractometer to my advantage.
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