adamj
Active Member
What are the most important things for you when shopping for homebrew supplies and equipment? Would you rather shop in person at a store or online? What would you like to see from your local shop?
whats important to you in a homebrew store?
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nickwkastle
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Knowledge and just a little catering to the more advanced brewers. Also know when to stop chatting about beer with customers that just need advice and check out the customers that just need hops and let them get out of there!
Variety. And actually know what they are talking about. I've cringed at hearing some of the advice I've heard being proffered at some shops.
drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
I prefer to shop in person, just so I don't have to worry about what would happen to the ingredients in shipping. Other than that, I just like to see a decent variety of supplies and a helpful staff. Compared to some of the stories I see on here, I have pretty good luck with the places by me.
MisterClean
Well-Known Member
To me the biggest issue is being local. I would love to be able to shop at a LHBS. Hang out, and talk beer, and be able to get supplies to brew on a whim.
But my closest supply store is almost 2 hours away, and just isn't worth the drive when I can order from AHS and have it shipped within a week or two for just 5 bucks.
Aside from distance, I like variety. I want go know that whatever recipe I bring in, Ill be able to get it filled. Or maybe not have a set plan coming in the door, but seeing somethjng different catch my eye
But my closest supply store is almost 2 hours away, and just isn't worth the drive when I can order from AHS and have it shipped within a week or two for just 5 bucks.
Aside from distance, I like variety. I want go know that whatever recipe I bring in, Ill be able to get it filled. Or maybe not have a set plan coming in the door, but seeing somethjng different catch my eye
nolabrew85
Well-Known Member
Staying well stocked. It sucks when things get delayed because they don't have what you need in stock.
dzlater
Well-Known Member
Same thing as any other store:
Price
Selection
Customer service
Price
Selection
Customer service
I've been in a couple of excellent stores. That's it- two. Ever.
One store, in Akron Ohio, had a decent selection and prices, but when I asked where the grain XX was, a clerk waved and said "All over". That's right, there were bins on the floor lined up down the rows, and around the long wall. Wellllll, I wanted five pounds of crystal 20L- I didn't want to search "All over"!
The other thing- three workers were in there. I went in with my dad. They all three asked my dad, "Can I help you?" which was nice. But I was totally ignored until I asked where the crystal 20L. I then asked to see a pH meter and when I had a question I got a shrug.
I really think I was ignored because of my gender, and I will never go back even though it was a pretty big store that advertises a lot. I bought nothing, not even a t-shirt.
I've gone into stores that have a nice owner but you have to order things because he doesn't have a high enough turnover to keep things in stock. That's fine if you only want to buy things he happens to have, but that is an issue. It would be hard to be "big enough" to stock most things without them outdating if your business didn't have high traffic.
The best store I've ever been in was Northern Brewer in Minneapolis. Midwest is the second store that was nearly as good. Competent employees, well laid out stores, a good variety of hops, malt, and yeast (all fresh and well packed and stored), and Midwest had frozen wine must in a huge walk in freezer.
Ironically, Northern Brewer and Midwest are only about 10 miles apart!
One store, in Akron Ohio, had a decent selection and prices, but when I asked where the grain XX was, a clerk waved and said "All over". That's right, there were bins on the floor lined up down the rows, and around the long wall. Wellllll, I wanted five pounds of crystal 20L- I didn't want to search "All over"!
The other thing- three workers were in there. I went in with my dad. They all three asked my dad, "Can I help you?" which was nice. But I was totally ignored until I asked where the crystal 20L. I then asked to see a pH meter and when I had a question I got a shrug.
I really think I was ignored because of my gender, and I will never go back even though it was a pretty big store that advertises a lot. I bought nothing, not even a t-shirt.
I've gone into stores that have a nice owner but you have to order things because he doesn't have a high enough turnover to keep things in stock. That's fine if you only want to buy things he happens to have, but that is an issue. It would be hard to be "big enough" to stock most things without them outdating if your business didn't have high traffic.
The best store I've ever been in was Northern Brewer in Minneapolis. Midwest is the second store that was nearly as good. Competent employees, well laid out stores, a good variety of hops, malt, and yeast (all fresh and well packed and stored), and Midwest had frozen wine must in a huge walk in freezer.
Ironically, Northern Brewer and Midwest are only about 10 miles apart!
Were you in Midwest before or after their move. They do seem like a nice store with helpful employees. It's too bad its a 5 hour drive to get there.
My LHBS guy could use a few hours on HBT!!! I was in there early on in my brewing and was trying to explain my temp control setup. He basically told me I was wasting money and that precise control wasn't that important. There are some good shops 2 hours away with helpful employees and good ingredients. I wish my LHBS had people that were easy to talk to and knowledgable. Not trying to be mean, but it's kind of awkward dealing with them. Like junior highers that are legally allowed to make beer.
SouthernGorilla
Well-Known Member
The first LHBS we tried was actually a hardware store with a homebrew section. And they are awesome. But obviously they don't have a huge selection.
The second one we tried caters more to high-end folks and can't be bothered with po' folks like us. They also told my wife that EC-1118 was a direct replacement for WLP720. So their knowledge is questionable.
The third had a great staff, but small selection. And the other customers were some of the most ignorant ***** I've ever encountered.
The fourth is now officially "our" LHBS. Friendly staff, decent selection.
To answer the original question, if I were opening a homebrew store I would focus mainly on ingredients. Nobody is rushing out at the last minute to buy a new fermenter. But how many of us have had to put a recipe on hold because we had to wait for the right grain or yeast to be shipped in? I'd keep small hardware like racking equipment, airlocks, stoppers, and brushes in stock. And maybe a few carboys. But the majority of the store would be devoted to yeast, grains, herbs, spices, sanitizers, and the other stuff that folks might need quickly. Leave the big items to the online shops.
The second one we tried caters more to high-end folks and can't be bothered with po' folks like us. They also told my wife that EC-1118 was a direct replacement for WLP720. So their knowledge is questionable.
The third had a great staff, but small selection. And the other customers were some of the most ignorant ***** I've ever encountered.
The fourth is now officially "our" LHBS. Friendly staff, decent selection.
To answer the original question, if I were opening a homebrew store I would focus mainly on ingredients. Nobody is rushing out at the last minute to buy a new fermenter. But how many of us have had to put a recipe on hold because we had to wait for the right grain or yeast to be shipped in? I'd keep small hardware like racking equipment, airlocks, stoppers, and brushes in stock. And maybe a few carboys. But the majority of the store would be devoted to yeast, grains, herbs, spices, sanitizers, and the other stuff that folks might need quickly. Leave the big items to the online shops.
Grain selection. Our local LHBS thinks any grain can be substituted for another grain as long as the Lovibond rating is the same. I started ordering most of my specialty grains online. The selection is just so much better and if you shop around the shipping can be very reasonable.
Location is important too. My current LHBS is 20-30 minutes away, not outrageously far away but not exactly convenient either.
Location is important too. My current LHBS is 20-30 minutes away, not outrageously far away but not exactly convenient either.
Dirty25
Well-Known Member
Service makes or breaks the store. My old LHBS had really good service 75% of the time. 2 of the employees were awesome. One was there more for the hydroponics part I believe (me and my friends nick named him stoner) and the other guy was decent. They had a good selection of grains and a ok selection of yeast. Their equipment part was weak but really did have the right stuff you needed. Their hopes were awesome (always had Simco, citra, and Amarillo). They had a nice selection of LME/DME and starter gear, it was a great place to shop. Yea sure sometimes I had to sub a grain but it was ok.
Some of the other LHBS stores I have been to had all the gear I wanted, good prices, and ingredients but the employees were complete weirdos (uncomfortable shopping there) that the store just sucked.
I want a nice comfortable place to shop and people who know what their talking about.
Some of the other LHBS stores I have been to had all the gear I wanted, good prices, and ingredients but the employees were complete weirdos (uncomfortable shopping there) that the store just sucked.
I want a nice comfortable place to shop and people who know what their talking about.
Well it looks like everyone is basically in agreement about what LHBS should _be_ so I'll tell you what my issue is: hours of operation. All of the LHBS within 45 minutes of me, close on weekdays before I am able to get to them. So, either I end up buying online, or I fight the Saturday crowds. Not super convenient for otherwise good LHBS. If they stayed open a bit later into the evening, that would help me quite a bit.
The only complaint I have about my LHBS is their hours of service. Closed sunday and monday. Close at 4pm on Sat. and 6pm on other nights. And considering they don't open till 11am that makes it rough for me to get there most days. I usually have to plan a special day just to get supplies. I work odd hours myself and theirs just don't work for me. Other then that they are great!
#1-The shopkeeper should brew and love talking about it and be fairly knowledgeable.
#2-No substitutions (I think this was mentioned already). Inventory should be massive(If you can't turn it over then discount it).
#3- This one is wishful thinking for me and I don't know the legalities, but there should be Homebrew on site. Home brew to taste and the shopkeeper should be open to tasting other people's brew. There should be kegs of beer of the recipe kits the store sells. At least a recipe of the month at minimum.
#2-No substitutions (I think this was mentioned already). Inventory should be massive(If you can't turn it over then discount it).
#3- This one is wishful thinking for me and I don't know the legalities, but there should be Homebrew on site. Home brew to taste and the shopkeeper should be open to tasting other people's brew. There should be kegs of beer of the recipe kits the store sells. At least a recipe of the month at minimum.
kitchenbeer
Member
A supermarket, that's what I want. No outdated tiny hole-in-the-wall shop that has old ingredients, when they are in stock at all.
Northern brewer, Midwest and Austin Homebrew Supply's retail locations are like this.
Oh, and a place to actually park my truck that isn't a city meter. A place that's actually open when I can get there.
There are alot of older smaller supermarket locations for sale that couldn't compete with the newer super stores. These would make a great brewshop.
lots of parking, lots of refrigeration space, good lighting and LOADING DOCKS in the back so freight coming in is $250-$300 less per load and it allows the owner to get a good enough deal with UPS/fed-ex that if they also did mail order they could compete with the big boys flat rates.
Anything less than that and its not worth going to them. Mail-order is cheaper, easier and never a wasted trip.
Northern brewer, Midwest and Austin Homebrew Supply's retail locations are like this.
Oh, and a place to actually park my truck that isn't a city meter. A place that's actually open when I can get there.
There are alot of older smaller supermarket locations for sale that couldn't compete with the newer super stores. These would make a great brewshop.
lots of parking, lots of refrigeration space, good lighting and LOADING DOCKS in the back so freight coming in is $250-$300 less per load and it allows the owner to get a good enough deal with UPS/fed-ex that if they also did mail order they could compete with the big boys flat rates.
Anything less than that and its not worth going to them. Mail-order is cheaper, easier and never a wasted trip.
SouthernGorilla
Well-Known Member
I would love to live closer to AHS or have a similar store nearby. But my local store will never get to that size if all the brewers in this area order online. The only way to get a big store in my area is to support the small store so it can grow.
The only advantage to mail-order for me is selection. I can't get my stuff cheaper online because of shipping costs. Online doesn't let me examine the stuff before I buy it. Returns are a pain online. And I can only pick up packages on certain days because they get left at the main office and I don't get home before the office closes. I'd rather deal with a small LHBS than worry about where my packages are.
StompingClover
Well-Known Member
I love shopping in person. There's something about going in and getting my stuff and bringing it right home.
I'm a bit spoiled because Midwest Supplies and Northern Brewer are my local shops.
I know it would have to be hard for a small shop to be able to keep a fresh selection on hand like those two stores do, but a small shop would either have to have a good selection or the ability to get what I wanted fairly quickly.
Customer service is also a key. A knowledgeable and helpful staff is the most important thing a shop can have. The staff must also be able to back whatever guarantee the store lays out. It you say you have the best service, the staff must perform. Freshest ingredients, keep stock rotated.
With both large stores to choose from, service is what keeps me coming back to one over the other.
I'm a bit spoiled because Midwest Supplies and Northern Brewer are my local shops.
I know it would have to be hard for a small shop to be able to keep a fresh selection on hand like those two stores do, but a small shop would either have to have a good selection or the ability to get what I wanted fairly quickly.
Customer service is also a key. A knowledgeable and helpful staff is the most important thing a shop can have. The staff must also be able to back whatever guarantee the store lays out. It you say you have the best service, the staff must perform. Freshest ingredients, keep stock rotated.
With both large stores to choose from, service is what keeps me coming back to one over the other.
d3track
Are you sure about that?
Takes me about 6 mins to peddle over to NB Minneapolis - and while Midwest is great, getting to St Louis Park is a PITA.
I will say, the classroom at NB is pretty sweet. And their employees seem to be just a touch easier to track down with the work shirts.
I shop mostly local, a little online. I want the local guy to be there, so I buy there.
Ingredients are very important, but the best thing at my lhbs is a monthly meeting. Taste other brews, have mine tasted.
Ingredients are very important, but the best thing at my lhbs is a monthly meeting. Taste other brews, have mine tasted.
I would love to commit to shopping at my local lhbs.BUT:
The owner/worker is apparantly only a wine maker or farily unkowledgable about beer. The supplies are random. Ive had many stale/aged things which have made some of my beers questionable not knowing if it was me orTHEM. The turnover rate is low,which lately has picked up some,but still you never know how old certain things are. The variety is ok yet very lacking, but if making a certain recipe or clone,chances are you will have to substitute.Or you have to wait for them to order and go back.
All this being said,Im still gratefull we have one around.As far as I have to drive is about equal to the shipping costs in moderate orders. I guess me not going there regularly would be the part of a low turnover rate,but can you blame me? I want to make good beer and use what I need witout altering a recipe. I really only go there basically for yeast because I dont trust it being shipped for about half of the year in tragic temps.Same with hops but Ive gotten pretty ****ty hops from my lhbs,so I would rather have hops shipped in an icepack. I really dont like that there is no packaging date on most brewing supplies.Its important to a brewer. The age of the hops or grain or anything really sholud should be as important as the age of the ipa made.Just like the handling is important.
I think as brewers often times we blame ourselves if something doesnt turn out good without thinking of stale ingredients. I did it when I first brewed extract but it was half my noob fau.lt yet half my lhbs fault also. I was pretty disapointed and confused at first but have since learned.When you make beer that tastes cidery/winey for your first brews,it almost made me quit. But I knew I wasnt experienced then so,I kept at it.Glad I did.Because I love most of my homebrews. Nothing against extract,Ive made great and some better extract brews,my first ones just happen to have dusty old dme, most likely.
The owner/worker is apparantly only a wine maker or farily unkowledgable about beer. The supplies are random. Ive had many stale/aged things which have made some of my beers questionable not knowing if it was me orTHEM. The turnover rate is low,which lately has picked up some,but still you never know how old certain things are. The variety is ok yet very lacking, but if making a certain recipe or clone,chances are you will have to substitute.Or you have to wait for them to order and go back.
All this being said,Im still gratefull we have one around.As far as I have to drive is about equal to the shipping costs in moderate orders. I guess me not going there regularly would be the part of a low turnover rate,but can you blame me? I want to make good beer and use what I need witout altering a recipe. I really only go there basically for yeast because I dont trust it being shipped for about half of the year in tragic temps.Same with hops but Ive gotten pretty ****ty hops from my lhbs,so I would rather have hops shipped in an icepack. I really dont like that there is no packaging date on most brewing supplies.Its important to a brewer. The age of the hops or grain or anything really sholud should be as important as the age of the ipa made.Just like the handling is important.
I think as brewers often times we blame ourselves if something doesnt turn out good without thinking of stale ingredients. I did it when I first brewed extract but it was half my noob fau.lt yet half my lhbs fault also. I was pretty disapointed and confused at first but have since learned.When you make beer that tastes cidery/winey for your first brews,it almost made me quit. But I knew I wasnt experienced then so,I kept at it.Glad I did.Because I love most of my homebrews. Nothing against extract,Ive made great and some better extract brews,my first ones just happen to have dusty old dme, most likely.
adamj
Active Member
I love shopping in a local store as long as the employees have an idea of what customer service is. They do not have to be the most knowledgeable person on the planet, but they at least need to homebrew themselves. Fresh, quality ingredients are key. The best stores have an almost automatic sense of community. The stores are bright, clean, and the owners/employees are welcoming and genuinely happy to be working someplace they can talk to others about beer, no matter what the customers level of expertise is. It is always nice to contribute to the local economy also.
larrydcarter
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I like going in person and taking to the other brewers for advices. Informed and learned owners are the most important thing to me.
If I had one I hope I could find some use for it.
grathan said:
#3 like all alcohol laws differs by state. Wisconsin is very homebrew friendly, and that just became legal a few years ago.
I LOVE my LHBS. Great selection, knowledgeable staff, convenient location. They just organized a bulk direct grain buy for our homebrew club, fronted the money for the buy, and gave an additional discount on other items on pickup day. They also have "grain cards" - grain is normally $1.95/lb but you can pay $75 for a card worth 50 lbs (so $1.50/lb). This is great for specialty grain. Their kits are awesome and they even partner with local brewers/brewpubs to make clone kits.
If I had to name any improvements, they would be (1) diversify yeast selection and (2) improve prices for some equipment. They have a wide array of yeast strains, but almost all is wyeast. I would like to try some WLP. Most of their big equipment (expensive items like kettles and mash tuns, not racking canes) cost 50% more than online prices. I'm happy to pay a little more to support my LHBS, but some items are $50+ more expensive than online.
I think a LHBS should be for homebrewing only. I have 2 shops in town and 1 is a LHBS and a hydroponic shop. I don't want to grow pot, I want to brew beer and wine. The other is straight up home brewers. The owner also works for a local micro brewery as a brewer which is awesome in the fact he knows his shat! Lol. So for me this is my LHBS.
hops2it
Well-Known Member
+1. Great staff and selection, highly recommend.
ICWiener
Well-Known Member
I have 4 homebrew shops within a 30 minute drive. We also have 2 Whole Foods stores with homebrew sections. Competition is pretty fierce, but it's not rocket surgery: Know your product. Have knowledgable employees. Be friendly. Try your hardest to stay well stocked.
My favorite are the stores that foster an environment of welcoming. We all just want hang out, sip on a few samples, and talk beer. That's what separates the good stores from the great ones. Like I said, if I just want an ounce of Citra I can go into Whole Foods and be on my way...but where's the fun in that.
My favorite are the stores that foster an environment of welcoming. We all just want hang out, sip on a few samples, and talk beer. That's what separates the good stores from the great ones. Like I said, if I just want an ounce of Citra I can go into Whole Foods and be on my way...but where's the fun in that.
Clonefan94
Senior Member
Friendly, knowledgeable staff that worry more about good customer service, than selling you another pound of grain or an item you don't need, just to make a sale. Well stocked. You need to be able to count on them for that last minute item you forgot. If you aren't going to be fully stocked most of the time, don't bother being in business. As soon as someone has a good experience ordering online, you may have just lost a customer forever. Also, competetive prices. You don't have to be spot on, remind customers, "You don't pay shipping" and in some states, grains are taxed as food, not like normal sales tax, so it can be even cheaper over all.
I really don't expect everyone who works at a homebrew shop to be the ultimate brewmaster, especially when they throw out advice that is antiquated or just plain bad. I've heard a couple of times, "This is the only way to do it." To later come here and read that there are in fact multiple ways to do that certain step. I think if most homebrew shops really took the time to educate their new customers, send them out the door with exactly what they needed in equipment and knowledge to succeed, I think this hobby would keep a lot more new brewers. And on that note, be willing to accept new knowledge from your customer base. It really should be a two way conversation, be willing to listen to the customer, they just might have a good idea as well.
I really don't expect everyone who works at a homebrew shop to be the ultimate brewmaster, especially when they throw out advice that is antiquated or just plain bad. I've heard a couple of times, "This is the only way to do it." To later come here and read that there are in fact multiple ways to do that certain step. I think if most homebrew shops really took the time to educate their new customers, send them out the door with exactly what they needed in equipment and knowledge to succeed, I think this hobby would keep a lot more new brewers. And on that note, be willing to accept new knowledge from your customer base. It really should be a two way conversation, be willing to listen to the customer, they just might have a good idea as well.
Quad cities,Bettendorf
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
It's kinda sad when I can go online and spend $13 on shipping for a $40 order and save a lot of money as compared to buying the exact same stuff as at my LHBS.
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I just want a well stocked shop, which they are... When I need something, I need them to have it....I really don't care to much about knowledge. If I need knowledge, I get It from here. Much better advice anyway...
I think that is a BIG point, know that there is a huge amount of information available for homebrewers. It is one thing to offer advice on how you would do it, it is completely different when you try to force someone to only do it your way.
I would not expect any LHBS owner to be an expert but at least know a bit, actually brew (wine/mead/beer/other- at least one), and know that there are 100 ways to skin a cat. And admit if you don't know, offer advice where they can find the answer (=HBT), or even take the time to find out yourself an email them once you do.
take the extra minute / go the extra mile
