What to pair with El Dorado in an APA?

[FatDragon]

Whenever the wife signs off on my next brewday, I'll be doing a split batch Brett Saison/APA. Basically, I'll be doing an iterated mash to make high gravity wort, boiling it with hops, and splitting it about 60/40 into two fermenters with top off water and different yeast pitches - one Belle Saison and stepped-up Boulevard Saison Brett dregs, and the lighter one with US-05. I was recently given about half a pound of El Dorado I'd like to integrate in part or full. I've also got decent amounts of Cascade, Citra, and Simcoe, and a few ounces of Amarillo. Will any of them play particularly nicely with the El Dorado?

 

[thehaze]

El Dorado, although high AA%, it's much milder than Citra, Simcoe, Galaxy, etc. It will pair fine with Citra and probably better with Amarillo. If pairing it with Citra, it should be something like 70% El Dorado and 30% Citra.

 

[ba-brewer]

I think El Dorado would pair fine with any of the hops you have on hand. I have had some El Dorado that were very fruity and worked OK on their own, made a nice golden ale. Have also had some that were more subtle.

I think the way you split your batch into two is pretty interesting. I have thought about doing something similar before but have not tried it yet. I was thinking start with an IPA and split it and water down part to get a pale ale or golden.

 

[FatDragon]

Necessity is the mother of invention. I've had only three brewdays in the last 12 months because I'm too busy to brew, drink (much), or have a social life that would facilitate sharing brews, and our second kid was just born seven weeks ago so brewdays are likely to become more scarce, not less. Typically a ~9 gallon kettle is considered good for five gallons, but that's mostly just because many all-grain brewers are too attached to the idea of a full-volume boil. If you accept that top-off water is not just for extract brewers and you're not afraid to do a big mash, splitting like this can be a good way to get a double batch or two different beers from one brewday. Heck, with a mini-mash or steep on the side, you can even make beers of significantly different colors and malt/roast profiles, though I'll admit that I chickened out on doing a porter/pale ale split like that several months ago and settled for a double batch of porter for simplicity's sake.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I've been working through a pound of El Dorado and generally like it alot. There was one batch I did early on with it where it was heavy ED and I got that hard candy sweetness that some talk about, and I didn't really care for it. But it was an early batch when I was still doing extract, so maybe it would turnout differently now that I've been brewing a year and my process is much improved.

I've generally paired with fruity/citrusy hops like citra, mosaic, galaxy, Amarillo, cascade, centennial. Simcoe's piney-ness would make an interesting pairing but I think it would work.

 

[bobeer]

Simcoe or Amarillo goes well with El Dorado. Hell, if I had a full pound of El Dorado I'd just use 100% of that. I love that hop.

I love your double brew day idea. I did a lot of that kind of stuff when my 2nd was born. My 2nd born is 2 1/2 now and I'm just starting to get back into full time brewing and my other hobbies. Making the jump from 1 kid to 2 kids is brutal, esp for your hobbies, but it goes by so fast. You're lucky you're fitting in any brews at all within the first year of having 2 kids! So you're doing something right, haha.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I am in the crowd that loves El Dorado, but not by iteself (too sweet, like over ripe fruit). I like to pair with something earthy like Columbus. With what you have on hand, I'd go with Simcoe or cascade in the WP and, like someone mentioned, blend 30% citra with 70% ED in the dry hop.

 

[Miraculix]

Necessity is the mother of invention. I've had only three brewdays in the last 12 months because I'm too busy to brew, drink (much), or have a social life that would facilitate sharing brews, and our second kid was just born seven weeks ago so brewdays are likely to become more scarce, not less. Typically a ~9 gallon kettle is considered good for five gallons, but that's mostly just because many all-grain brewers are too attached to the idea of a full-volume boil. If you accept that top-off water is not just for extract brewers and you're not afraid to do a big mash, splitting like this can be a good way to get a double batch or two different beers from one brewday. Heck, with a mini-mash or steep on the side, you can even make beers of significantly different colors and malt/roast profiles, though I'll admit that I chickened out on doing a porter/pale ale split like that several months ago and settled for a double batch of porter for simplicity's sake.

Used to work with top up water all the time due to 20l mashing and boiling pot and at least 25l fermenter.

 

[day_trippr]

I'm just gonna drop this right here...

https://beerandbrewing.com/weldwerks-brewing-co-juicy-bits-new-england-style-ipa/

Cheers!

 

[FatDragon]

You're lucky you're fitting in any brews at all within the first year of having 2 kids! So you're doing something right, haha.

Say that again when this brew actually happens, haha! Right now it's still just a pipe dream, which means I'm about 4-5 months out from my last brewday. Sunday's the only day of the week a brew day could possibly happen, so I'm going to lobby with the wife for the 24th. About ten of the ~sixty hours I work each week are teaching classes for the English training center she runs out of our apartment, so it's reasonable to ask her for a few hours for myself once in a while. I just hope she sees it the same way.

 

[SanPancho]

You gottalook into overnight mashing. My second is 4 weeks old, its carzy around here. But with overnight mash i need about 30 at night to set mash, and about 2.5 hours to finish the next morning. Alot easier to,squeeze in to schedule.

 

[Miraculix]

You gottalook into overnight mashing. My second is 4 weeks old, its carzy around here. But with overnight mash i need about 30 at night to set mash, and about 2.5 hours to finish the next morning. Alot easier to,squeeze in to schedule.

But you really need a mash ton that holds the temperature very well. I didn't, so I woke up to a sour mash accident, turned into a nice and slightly sour wheat beer though, still not what I planned. To quote Bob Ross "there are no mistakes, just happy little accidents".

 

[FatDragon]

I have done it, but never on a brew that was simple enough to finish in less than four hours the next day - always something extra big or with a long boil or such. My wife's current perspective is that a brew day is a brew day so I look at it like I might as well go big so I can get twice the beer even if it takes an extra hour or two. However, if I could show her a much shorter brew day like that, it might buy me more opportunities. Food for thought. As it is, I'll probably try to do the whole iterated mash overnight with the (hopefully) pending split batch by starting at bedtime and doing the second step in the middle of the night whenever the baby wakes me up, but maybe I'll try a simple single batch with an overnight mash for the next brew after that to show her that I can make a beer with a minimal time investment.

Extract would be a good alternative too if it weren't so expensive here. I could manage a brew day with about 15 minutes of hands-on time over the course of an hour or two that way, but it would cost three to four times what it does to make an all-grain beer, and money's a bit tight lately.

 

[FatDragon]

But you really need a mash ton that holds the temperature very well. I didn't, so I woke up to a sour mash accident, turned into a nice and slightly sour wheat beer though, still not what I planned. To quote Bob Ross "there are no mistakes, just happy little accidents".

With my kettle on a floor mat and wrapped in a winter jacket, I typically lose less than 1 degree celsius in an hour, so it's not been an issue when I've gone overnight before.

 

[bobeer]

Say that again when this brew actually happens, haha! Right now it's still just a pipe dream, which means I'm about 4-5 months out from my last brewday. Sunday's the only day of the week a brew day could possibly happen, so I'm going to lobby with the wife for the 24th. About ten of the ~sixty hours I work each week are teaching classes for the English training center she runs out of our apartment, so it's reasonable to ask her for a few hours for myself once in a while. I just hope she sees it the same way.

My wife was going to do the teach English from home thing too to make some extra cash. I feel you, man. It's real tough to get a schedule together at first. My 2nd is now almost 3 and we just got our situation setup. It's a balancing act, for sure, and you always seem to flying by the seat of your pants.

I used to break my brew days across 2 days just to squeeze one in when I didn't have time to brew it all at once. I'd do everything up through the sparge then cover the boil kettle with a few heavy blankets and leave it until the next day for the boil and beyond.

 

[FatDragon]

My wife was going to do the teach English from home thing too to make some extra cash. I feel you, man. It's real tough to get a schedule together at first. My 2nd is now almost 3 and we just got our situation setup. It's a balancing act, for sure, and you always seem to flying by the seat of your pants.

I used to break my brew days across 2 days just to squeeze one in when I didn't have time to brew it all at once. I'd do everything up through the sparge then cover the boil kettle with a few heavy blankets and leave it until the next day for the boil and beyond.

It's not all bad. Over the whole semester, I'll put in about 80 class hours and another 15-20 of prep or just having students in our home before or after class. My wife will log about the same amount of time on the administrative end. For our pains, we'll take home about $5k after expenses. It's not life-changing money, but it's a decent little bump in our income. It beats the hell out of the first year when we were renting a place and hiring teachers to teach the lessons. My wife put in twice the hours for the privilege of paying the last month's rent and a few teacher's paychecks each semester out of the salary for my primary job.

 

[redllama]

I've paired it with both Amarillo and Citra and the Amarillo was definitely better

 

[FatDragon]

I've paired it with both Amarillo and Citra and the Amarillo was definitely better

With 100g of Amarillo and 11 gallons split between a Brett saison and an APA, there's not a whole lot of Amarillo to go around. My intention is for 50g of the Amarillo to go into the saison's dry hop, which only leaves 50g for hot side (which goes into both beers) and dry hopping the APA. Would it be better to let it go into the whirlpool (equivalent of about 20g whirlpool for the APA since the wort will be split 60/40) or all 50g in the APA dry hop?

 

[redllama]

With 100g of Amarillo and 11 gallons split between a Brett saison and an APA, there's not a whole lot of Amarillo to go around. My intention is for 50g of the Amarillo to go into the saison's dry hop, which only leaves 50g for hot side (which goes into both beers) and dry hopping the APA. Would it be better to let it go into the whirlpool (equivalent of about 20g whirlpool for the APA since the wort will be split 60/40) or all 50g in the APA dry hop?

I think splitting the Amarillo between the whirlpool and the dry hop is the best option. Maybe go a touch heavier on the El Dorado to compensate

 

[FatDragon]

Got the brew day! Split batch - Brett Saison and APA.

Grist:
5.5 kg China-malted Australian 2-row (pppg 1.031 - lots of protein)
3 kg Chateau Pils
1 kg Chinese wheat malt
.5 kg Chinese biscuit malt

Water: 45 L RO water, with 12 g gypsum, 4 g calcium chloride, 1 g salt. 22.5 L for mash, 9 for sparge, 13.5 refrigerated for top-off.

Mash:
5 kg mixed grist in 22.5 L mash water, 66.7 C, acidified with 10 ml 80% lactic acid, roughly 80 minutes.
Sparged first grain bag with about 4 L hot sparge water, drained, and started second mash with remaining 5 kg grist. Insulated and left overnight. Sparged with remaining 5 L sparge water (hot) in the morning and started boil. Pre-boil: 27 L @ 21 Plato

Boil:
50 minutes.
40g Sorachi Ace at FWH.
20g each El Dorado, Amarillo, and Simcoe at 10 minutes.
Quick chill to 60 C (overshot target temp of 70+) for hop steep: 80g El Dorado, 30g Amarillo, 30g Simcoe.
Left it alone (save the occasional stir) for about 1.5 hours while I was busy with something else.
Ran chiller for half an hour while I was still busy with something else.
Post-boil: roughly 24 L @ 23p
Siphoned about 14 L to saison fermenter with one 4.5 L jug of chilled top-off water.
Siphoned/dumped remaining ~10L to APA fermenter (with hop sludge) with 9 L top-off water.
Both fermenters were shaken before topping off for a bit of O2.
Pitched vitality starter of Belle Saison and stepped-up Boulevard Saison Brett dregs in saison.
Pitched vitality starter of US-05 in APA.

Over-chilled, especially with the top-off water, so I'm waiting for my heating wire to bring the fermenters back up to ferm temps. At 12 C right now, targeting 17 C for first three days, then bump up 1 C a day until 20 C.

Dry Hops:
APA @ 3 days: 20g each El Dorado, Citra, Simcoe.
APA @ 10 days: 30g El Dorado, 10g Citra, 20g Simcoe.
Bottle at 2 weeks.

Brett Saison @ <1 week until packaging (probably 3-4 months): 50g each El Dorado and Amarillo, 20g Citra.

The dregs of the Saison Brett were stepped up with a starter wort-strength wort of DME and a bit of Sorachi Ace for preservative about 4-5 months ago, no shaking. The starter beer smelled AMAZING when I removed the sanitized foil to pitch the dregs into the saison wort, very winey. I poured the first 12 ounces of clear starter beer into a thick ceramic flip top with some white sugar for a (hopefully) tasty little freebie in a few weeks.

This was my best brew day in a while. The iterated mash is a winner for these split batches. WAY better than doing one thick mash and big sparge. Overshooting my chilling before the steep wasn't necessarily ideal, but it might work out well by way of preventing excessive bitterness from that fairly big addition, and the extra hour of steeping while I was busy should have helped with the flavor and aroma extraction. The excessive chilling pre-pitch is something to keep an eye on as well next time, but overall it's been a very successful and satisfying split brew day.

 

[FatDragon]

I've been popping the ferm chamber open a few times a day just to get a whiff of that delicious aroma. It's set to 18C now and I'll bump it to 19 this evening when I get home. I added the first dry hop to the APA this morning while there's still a pretty solid krausen. Between the hoppy gunk from the kettle trub, a day three dry hop, and a day ten dry hop, I'm thinking she's gonna be quite a nice drinker. I've never had issues with vegetal hop flavors in beers like this, so I'm not so worried about that possibility.