What to buy next to improve the quality of my beer?

[p_p]

Hi all,
If I were to make a list of the things I would like to change in my process and the equipment in order to improve the quality of my beer, it would be a long list indeed.

However, there are two things that come to mind as the most urgent. Buying a grains mill and pure O2.

I buy pre-crushed grains on mail order. Although I have never had issues, I understand to get the best fresh flavour, one needs to mill the grains right before mashing.

Secondly, I don't have pure O2. I have been splashing during transfer from kettle to FV and sometimes using an aquarium pump and air stone. I brew ales below 1.060. I make my starters using a stir-plate and tend to over-pitch slightly to compensate for the lack of oxygen.

Birthday is coming up and I can probably choose one of the above.
Which one is more relevant to improving the quality of the beer?

Thanks
p_p

 

[Rockn_M]

If those are the only options I'd go with the o2 however if you can, if take a look at fermentation temperature control. That will make the biggest impact on flavor.

 

[soccerdad]

So you already have good control of fermenting temp?

 

[SGTSparty]

Piling on here but fermentation temp control would be my suggestion before either of those if you don't have it.

Can you tell us more about your process? I feel like O2 is great but 1.06 isn't a huge beer, adjusting pitch rates w/ stir plate starters should be a good solution there. Mills are great but whats your efficiency like now? if your getting decent efficiency or you're already controlling for lower efficiency then your mill is just going to save you money on grain more than bettering your beer IMO.

That said, if you're not venturing up into the 1.8 range I'd say go with the mill. Then figure out how much money your saving per batch with improved efficiency and put it towards saving for you O2 system.

 

[tfbrews]

I would have to say the mill, especially if you are looking to get better efficiency and more flexability when it comes to storing grains versus being rushed to brew the premilled grains before the quality starts to drop.
I bought the monster mill and saw my efficiency immediately increase.

 

[p_p]

Thank you for your replies.
I am OK with temperature control.

The reason I thought a mill would improve quality is because at the moment I don't really know how long before brew day the grains were crushed.
Mash efficiency is coming out between 82 and 85%. End-to-end efficiency between 70-75 depending on how much hops I use and how much break material is produced.

I agree that 1.060 is not that big and quite honestly, I usually aim lower than that. So whether O2 is a real necessity over a grains mill, I am not sure, so I ask

In a nutshell, the process is:
- Recipe build using a spreadsheet.
- Grains bought pre-crushed.
- Stater made 18hs to 3 days in advance, depending if I will dump it all in or cold crash and decant.
- Tap water, blended with soft water depending on the beer. Measure KH, GH, Ca and Mg prior using.
- Water treated, NaMetabi for removing chlorine, salts, acid.
- Single infusion mash for 60 to 90 min. depending on beer.
- Two loads of batch sparge using pre-acidified water.
- Feeble boil for 60 to 90 min. Kettle salts if planned, yeast nutrient, kettle fining.
- Kettle hops are whole cones bagged. Usually a 60 min bittering addition and then at FO and/or hop stand.
- Cooling using an immersion chiller. Takes quite some time.
- Sanitize plastic bucket using star-san. Add about a 1/2 gal and splash around.
- Transfer to plastic bucket and pitch 2-4°F below target fermentation temp.
- Either splash during transfer or connect to pump via HEPA filter and 2um stone.
- Take sample for OG reading and fast ferment the sample to know where the beer will end.
- In fermentation chamber (minifridge with STC1000+). Let rise naturally to target temp.
- Single dry hop load if planned when the beer is just about to reach FG.
- Ramp temperature up towards the end.
- If planned, fine with gelatine and add about 4ppm NaMetabi (hoping to scavenge any oxygen introduced in the process).
- No secondary.
- If planned, cold crash.
- Prime directly into bottles using brewing sugar (powder, not boiled) mixed with NaMetabi to get about 4ppm.
- Bottle and, if possible, cap on foam.
- Back into the temp control at around 67F for two weeks, test carbonation 2 weeks later.

thanks for reading.

 

[Pkrd]

Have you thought about kegging?

 

[Sadu]

Personally I would definitely go with the grain mill. No question. This is less about quality and more about convenience, cost, and overall enjoyment of the hobby. It is awesome being able to build a recipe on the day and change your mind at any point. Putting together small test batches from malts in stock is super easy and so much better than planning a recipe weeks in advance. Plus good cost savings to be had by buying big sacks of base malt. And the freshness thing, although I havent noticed any issues with using 6 week old crushed malts from the HBS.

On the other hand you can do great aeration with an electric drill and whisk. Cheap, easy, effective. If you are doing 1.060 brews and pitching properly and aerating with a drill I am not convinced that a pure o2 system would make a difference to justify the cost or hassle. This upgrade is real far down my list, waaay after kegging, bigger wort chiller and a proper brew stand.

 

[p_p]

Have you thought about kegging?

I have thought about it, but I don't have the space it requires. Maybe at some point I may be able to have one or two kegs in a mini-fridge. But it will take some time until that happens. In the meantime (I convince myself that) I do enjoy bottling.

Why do you mention this?

 

[J187]

I use plastic buckets and usually aerate by pouring the wort back and forth between my primary and bottle bucket a bunch. Based on your above process, I would maybe consider a better chilling option... perhaps a pre-chiller or a whirlpool chiller? I too use an immersion in 5 gallons right now and it just takes too long. I am thinking about building a second, cheap immersion to use as a prechiller. For $50 I expect this will improve my beer by chilling down faster, my experience by not annoying me waiting for the temps to come down, and speeding up my brew day - making everyone happy. What are you thinking of spending? I think better chilling and a nice PH Meter would be money better spent than a mill. Just my opinion.

 

[paperairplane]

I think O2 is overrated.
I'd get a mill - a Corona is only $30.

 

[Murphys_Law]

To me the advantage of a mill was being able to buy grain in bulk and save some $$.

 

[55x11]

I have thought about it, but I don't have the space it requires. Maybe at some point I may be able to have one or two kegs in a mini-fridge. But it will take some time until that happens. In the meantime (I convince myself that) I do enjoy bottling.

Why do you mention this?

I agree with that point - I think kegging allows you to seriously limit your oxygen exposure during transfers etc., and allows you to drink fresh beer, faster. It's especially important if you like hoppy beers (IPAs etc.) where flavor can disappear quickly. You can also dial in carbonation a lot more precisely, and ultimately serve on nitro etc.

It sounds like your process is already pretty advanced. I personally would go for pure O2, as opposed to mill. If you can store your crushed grains properly - in dry container/environment, it should last a long time (weeks, months). Starches and enzymes will still be there. We store flour in our cabinets without any issues for months and years, and that's the ultimately super-finely crushed grains. Enzymes won't be activated as long as you keep grains dry and not too warm.

I did however notice a difference in yeast response when I switched to pure O2 with stone, as opposed to shaking the carboy. Fermentation starts faster and is more vigorous/healthy.

Other suggestions - I would leave the plastic bucket behind and use PET fermentors - like Fermonster, better bottle. Better seal to make sure oxygen doesn't get in at the late stages of fermentation, and less chance of picking up something from scratched plastic. Also easier to transfer without adding too much trub.

Invest more time in recipe formulation and try different/better ingredients is another idea.

 

[soccerdad]

To me the advantage of a mill was being able to buy grain in bulk and save some $$.

Agree !

 

[sendai]

- Feeble boil for 60 to 90 min.

What about a propane burner? A vigorous boil seems more important than either O2 or a grain mill. Or upgrade your chiller to make your brew day shorter.

If I had to choose one of the original options, I'd go with the grain mill.

 

[SGTSparty]

Based on the process you laid out the first thing that jumped out to me was you cooler. You specifically called out that part of the process as "Takes quite some time." That's one of the only places you editorialized, which leads me to think you should use that improvement money to get a better chiller. That said your original question was what will improve the Quality of your beer. It doesn't appear that you're getting infections from cooling too slowly or ill-affects of hot-side aeration so that would more speak to improving the quality of your beer brewing experiences vs. the quality of your beer.

The mill is kind of the same type of thing, it may improve your efficiency some, it may save you some money and give you some more flexibility when brewing but I don't know how significant an impact it will have on the quality of your beer.

It sounds like you're process is pretty advanced (more so than mine) so I guess my question would be what flaws do you feel you currently have w/ your quality or what do you think you can improve on? You may be better served to look at it that way vs. general quality improvement. If you can't pin point something then I'd suggest looking at improving the quality of you brew day. Where can you get faster/easier making brewing more enjoyable or able to happen more often (if time is a constraint) or Where can you save yourself money allowing you to brew good beer cheaper or brew more often (if budget is a constraint).

If time is more important get a new chiller or a better burner. If cost is more important then get a mill or a better yeast harvesting/overbuild/storage system to save you money.

 

[KepowOb]

I see people complain about chill times with immersion chillers a lot around here. What is too long for you guys?

My ground water was 74ish last weekend and I got my wort down to 80 in 20 minutes, maybe less? I wasn't timing it, but i have in the past and I never find it to drag.

 

[BBBF]

1. Grain Mill - You don't really need this right now if you're buying your grain pre milled and using it quickly.

2. O2 - What type of yeast are you using? If you're using dry yeast, adding O2 isn't needed.


Of the two options, I'd say Grain Mill. You can have better control over the crush and maybe inprove your efficency. You can save some money on shipping by getting more than one kit at a time and grinding the grains when you need them.

Or get a cheap (corona) mill and a cheap o2 system (aquarium pump) and you now have both.

 

[J187]

I see people complain about chill times with immersion chillers a lot around here. What is too long for you guys?

My ground water was 74ish last weekend and I got my wort down to 80 in 20 minutes, maybe less? I wasn't timing it, but i have in the past and I never find it to drag.

How long for you to get all the way down to pitching temp?

 

[mongoose33]

I'd get the mill. This will allow you to stock a variety of grains in anticipation of various recipes. I've got about 8 specialty grains, 2-row malt, Maris Otter malt, Rye Malt.

As others noted you can also buy grain in bulk, and that will save money, enough over time to pay for the mill. I can get 50# of 2-row for $38, 55# of Maris Otter for $53. My most recent brew had 11# of MO, 3 ounces of hops, a sachet of S-04 yeast--total of just shy of $21 for 5 gallons of what I expect will be a delicious SMASH.

You'll also be able to control the crush--which may help your efficiency.

 

[soccerdad]

Read up on 'no chill'

 

[h22lude]

Mill may help you increase efficiency but at 70-75, I think you are ok there. Getting better efficiency isn't all that needed. Even at 65% all you need to do is add a handful of extra base malt. I know some people are going to say this is an added cost but for $2 extra a batch, I don't find it to be a big deal. 70-75 is pretty average and nothing wrong with it. A mill won't help you make better beer unless the grains you are getting have been crushed for a long time before they get to you (which I highly doubt they are).

O2 is 100% needed. Shaking doesn't get the recommended level of dissolved O2 into the beer. While shaking does work, it isn't the best option. Pure O2 is much easier and will get you the necessary levels of O2 especially when doing those higher gravity beers that you said you like to brew.

Summary...

A mill will give you a consistent crush which will help you make a more consistent beer (if this is a problem) and it may help with efficiency if the store you buy the grains from doesn't crush them good enough. The downside is you may find out your system maxes out at 70-75 and your store crushes the grains well. You may not need the mill.

Pure O2 is always better than shaking (even with dry yeast). It is especially good for higher gravity beers (1.060+). The only downside is you may use too much O2 which could be bad but if you do 30 seconds for lower gravity beers and 45 to 60 seconds for higher gravity beers, you will never put in too much.


We don't know what else you need. There may be something out there that will help more than these two. I'd do better chilling and better fermentation temp over the above two.

 

[Pkrd]

I have thought about it, but I don't have the space it requires. Maybe at some point I may be able to have one or two kegs in a mini-fridge. But it will take some time until that happens. In the meantime (I convince myself that) I do enjoy bottling.

Why do you mention this?

More consistent carbonation. Beer is ready to drink in under a week after packaging. Bottling really does suck. Better clarity usually. Fermentation time can be a little shorter as you're not concerned about bottle bombs. Really much more convenient all round. Serving size isn't dependent on bottle size.

 

[Fizzycist]

Reading through your description, 2 things you said jumped out to me: feeble boil and long time chilling. Improving your basic setup in terms of how you boil and chill would probably have a bigger effect than either milling your own or 02.

 

[Fizzycist]

Bah, I did not realize there were 3 posts saying the same thing already.

 

[bjbear]

If you haven't got room for kegging, then you won't have room to store grains for milling at home.....

O2 kit gets my vote.

 

[KepowOb]

How long for you to get all the way down to pitching temp?

That won't happen with an immersion chiller in the summer for me, but I just throw it in my fridge and it's ready to pitch the next morning, which works fine for me. (Sorry to go off topic a bit here).

 

[phendog]

Only read the OP and a few after so apologize if restating some key points. Before spending ANY money on cool guy/rich kid gear, get the basics down.
-***Know your equipment regardless if it's igloo coolers or $500 Blickman kettles. e.g.: evap rate p/hr, temp retention, etc.
- Water to grain ratio for mash
- Temps at every stage of the process
- Hitting target volumes
- Basic pH
- Good water - nothing crazy
- Efficient wort cooling
- Proper sanitization
- Proper yeast pitch / cell count
- Temp control during fermentation

All said, you don't have to spend a ton of money to brew GREAT beer.

 

[p_p]

Wow, thank you everybody for the numerous replies!
Definitely you got me thinking ..

long time chilling.

I would maybe consider a better chilling option

- Efficient wort cooling

I'd do better chilling

Many of you mentioned you'd improve the chilling ... How would cooling faster would improve the quality of the beer?
I could recite a few things I have read, but what are your thoughts from personal experience?

2 things you said jumped out to me: feeble boil

What about a propane burner? A vigorous boil seems more important that either O2 or a grain mill.

Why does a vigorous boil is more important than the other two factors?
The boil, although feeble, is not a simmer, there is plenty of movement and I get about 11% evaporation per 60min.
I brew in my kitchen and my kettle is fitted with a heating element which allows me to bring the wort to boil quite quickly, but then I switch off and use one of the hob burners full throttle (can't cover two burners at the same time). I can't control how much power I get from the element and this is why I turn it off otherwise the kettle would look like a volcano.
I could, with some investment and DIY time, regulate the power going into the element and keep it on during boil. Then again, the German brew PDF widely discussed in the science section of this forum states that the boil should be a simmer to avoid oxidation so I am not sure how worthy this is.

ill-affects of hot-side aeration so that would more speak to improving the quality of your beer brewing experiences vs. the quality of your beer

How would ill-affects of hot side aeration would be perceived?

I guess my question would be what flaws do you feel you currently have w/ your quality or what do you think you can improve on?

Good question, I don't know. I don't really have any particular quality issue in mind. I was thinking more in the line of additions to my equipment that, in theory, should make the beer better, even if the improvement is small or negligible. Good reply, btw. got me thinking. I think I will stop formulating and start picking up some known-and-proven recipes until I get more experience. I've never brewed a beer I didn't fully enjoy drinking, but some recipes have come up better than others.

Mill may help you increase efficiency but at 70-75, I think you are ok there .... O2 is 100% needed

I agree, I am happy with the efficiency. 70-75% is the end to end efficiency: how many PPG I got in the fermenter from the theoretical total. Mash efficiency is consistent in the 85s% so I am happy with the way my supplier is crushing the grains ..

Despite many good comments and suggestions, I have started to get inclined for the oxygen. I don't like the splashing and I don't like the air-pump. I see that during 20 minutes I create foam and more foam and wonder if that damages the beer. I remember hearing a podcast where it was discussed how generating foam during transfers, etc will affect the clarity and head of the finished product.

 

[SGTSparty]

How would ill-affects of hot side aeration would be perceived?

Are you asking what result of HSA would be? If you had negative affects from HSA are similar to any oxidation, cardboard type flavors that become more pronounced as the beer ages. That said, there are a lot of people who say HSA is not that big of a problem for Home-brewers and as long as your not splashing or excessively stirring/whipping the wert before it cools I don't think its a problem for you.

 

[Mrin]

if temperature control is taken care of then +1 on the grain mill. Brings your cost per batch significantly down.

I brew at 8,500 feet above sea level and found that o2 make little to no difference other than what appears to be a shorter period for fermentation taking off. I often forget to use it anymore.