What the hell is this???

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GeorgiaTiger said:
Only one hop was used. It’s a one hop hazy ipa. I’m kinda weirded out by it.
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Probably not lacto then - most lacto strains don't play well with hops >5 IBU, but there are exceptions. More likely a brett strain then, or pediococcus. Check your sanitation regime.

If you like sours, let it ride and see what happens. If you don't, dump it. I would use a strong bleach solution on anything on the cold side from that brew, and give it a good solid soak.

There's nothing there that indicates a mold infection - it isn't green or black or red. It should not be dangerous, even if it looks a bit odd. It probably won't taste anything like you thought it might though. If it's a wild infection, it could really taste like anything, which is sort of the fun of sour brewing. YMMV. Sours can be an acquired taste, in the same way that palate-rasping West Coast IPAs or burnt-toast stouts are.
 
mirthfuldragon said:
Probably not lacto then - most lacto strains don't play well with hops >5 IBU, but there are exceptions. More likely a brett strain then, or pediococcus. Check your sanitation regime.

If you like sours, let it ride and see what happens. If you don't, dump it. I would use a strong bleach solution on anything on the cold side from that brew, and give it a good solid soak.

There's nothing there that indicates a mold infection - it isn't green or black or red. It should not be dangerous, even if it looks a bit odd. It probably won't taste anything like you thought it might though. If it's a wild infection, it could really taste like anything, which is sort of the fun of sour brewing. YMMV. Sours can be an acquired taste, in the same way that palate-rasping West Coast IPAs or burnt-toast stouts are.
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never had sours really. But, I pulled a little beer from the bottom and it smelled great. No off smells and a finger taste from what I pulled off was bright and hoppy and had no off flavors either. I’m gonna rack it to a keg and carb it up. We will see what it does. Been in fermenter for over a month now.
 
GeorgiaTiger said:
never had sours really. But, I pulled a little beer from the bottom and it smelled great. No off smells and a finger taste from what I pulled off was bright and hoppy and had no off flavors either. I’m gonna rack it to a keg and carb it up. We will see what it does. Been in fermenter for over a month now.
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From what I know about these infections, it can take a very long time for them to totally turn the taste sour The FG can go much lower than normal so it is dangerous to bottle them (too soon). Kegging and keeping them cold should slow any changes so you might have a good beer that would eventually go off, taste wise. Maybe sour, maybe just bad.

Carbonate it, if it is good drink it fairly quickly.
 
That's a pellicle. It shows you have an infection. Also probably a bit of oxygen leaking into the carboy--not sure but in my experience with sour beers I get more pellicle when there is some oxygen getting to the beer. If it still tastes good now and you can keg it I'd do that right away, get it cold and carbonated and drink it fast. Bottling could be pretty risky. If it were my beer and I had to bottle it I'd go ahead and let it sour - leave it in the carboy for at least a couple months - before bottling. Taste it again at bottling and if it's still interesting bottle it up.

Everything that touched this beer since you transferred it into the carboy and everything that does touch the beer going forward needs careful cleaning and sanitization. Focus on cleaning with something like PBW or Oxiclean before you start trying to sanitize with bleach or other sanitizers. Keep cleaning until you can find no dirt or residue anywhere. Take apart valves, spigots etc. Clean, rinse and then clean it again. After you are sure it is clean then you can hit it with bleach or other sanitizer of your choice. Look up proper concentration/mixing instructions and contact time. Don't assume more chemical is better. Follow the instructions. Really worth getting this right the first time, you don't want to be back here in three months with some tale of woe about trying to chase down an infection that spoiled your last 5 batches.

While easy enough to soak consider throwing away small and soft things that have touched this beer. Carboy stopper, airlock, racking hose etc. Or save them seperate from the rest of your gear and use them to make sour beers if you ever decided to go down that rabbit hole.
 
Just want to reiterate a few things:
  • The film is called a pellicle, which is not to be confused with mold.
  • A pellicle indicates the presence of wild yeast and/or bacteria.
  • It is not hazardous to your health.
  • It only forms in the presence of oxygen.
  • There's no way to know that organisms are present based on the appearance of a pellicle, or predict whether any kind of souring or flavor change will occur.
  • If it tastes good I recommend packaging it now rather than trying to age it. Aging would more likely ruin the beer. Beer with a pellicle doesn't automatically sour. Most of the time the beer is fine.
  • Bleach is not helpful in these situations. Use a good cleanser like PBW and heat.
  • Consider replacing porous materials (rubber, plastic) that contact the contaminated beer, although that may not be necessary with good cleaning.
Cheers
 
Do expand on bleach is not helpful, please.
I thought bleach or iodophor were complete and total broad spectrum microbial eliminators.
 
balrog said:
Do expand on bleach is not helpful, please.
I thought bleach or iodophor were complete and total broad spectrum microbial eliminators.
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Bleach, Iodophor, and Star San are great at sanitizing, but not great at cleaning.

Sanitizers (including bleach) do not penetrate or remove biofilms or inorganic residue (e.g. beer stone). Only clean surfaces can be sanitized, and so good sanitization relies heavily on good cleaning.

I use a hot PBW soak and a hot citric acid rinse, with water rinses before and after each. Commercial breweries use the same, but with more hazardous chemicals.

Hope this makes sense.
 
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RPh_Guy said:
Bleach, Iodophor, and Star San are great at sanitizing, but not great at cleaning.

Sanitizers (including bleach) do not penetrate or remove biofilms or other organic residue (e.g. beer stone). Only clean surfaces can be sanitized, and so good sanitization relies heavily on good cleaning.

I use a hot PBW soak and a hot citric acid rinse, with water rinses before and after each. Commercial breweries use the same, but with more hazardous chemicals.

Hope this makes sense.
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How do you do the citric acid rinse and how does this improve the process?
 
"Acidic products are effective against inorganic deposits. Acids dissolve and remove water scale (a buildup of calcium and magnesium carbonate), rust (iron oxide), alkaline scale (carbonates and hydroxides that remain after repeated alkaline cleanings), aluminum oxide, and other soils of a mineral or metallic nature."
If you don't remove the inorganic deposits, it's easier for microbes to adhere to the surface.

I use around 1Tbsp citric acid per gallon of warm water. Small items get a short soak. I rinse carboys by shaking. For bottles I circulate the acid with a pump through a bottle rack.

My brewing equipment is visually cleaner when using an acid rinse.
 
For acid cleaning and rinse, I use dairy milkstone remover. It contains ~42% phosphoric acid, plus water and surfactants. The same basic composition as products sold for brewing (BS Remover, Acid 5, etc.) but only $14 a gallon for the concentrate, as much as 10x cheaper than the products marketed to brewers/ homebrewers. My normal regimen is as @RPh_Guy specified, but periodically I do an acid soak first, followed directly by the alkaline cleaner; the acid loosens material which can then be more effectively removed by the PBW type cleaner, reducing the need for mechanical scrubbing. A product such as this, containing surfactants, should be more effective as a cleaner than a simple acid like citric, etc. However phosphoric acid will not repassivate SS if that is a concern.
 
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Robert65 said:
For acid cleaning and rinse, I use dairy milkstone remover. It contains ~42% phosphoric acid, plus water and surfactants. The same basic composition as products sold for brewing (BS Remover, Acid 5, etc.) but only $14 a gallon for the concentrate, as much as 10x cheaper than the products marketed to brewers/ homebrewers. My normal regimen is as @RPh_Guy specified, but periodically I do an acid soak first, followed directly by the alkaline cleaner; the acid loosens material which can then be more effectively removed by the PBW type cleaner, reducing the need for mechanical scrubbing. A product such as this, containing surfactants, should be more effective as a cleaner than a simple acid like citric, etc. However phosphoric acid will not repassivate SS if that is a concern.
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How much of that per gallon of water do you use?
 
imasickboy said:
How much of that per gallon of water do you use?
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As a rinse after alkaline cleaners or light duty cleaning, 1 oz in 6 gallons. As a stronger cleaner for removing heavier buildup of beerstone, etc., 1 oz in 2 gallons.
 
GeorgiaTiger said:
never had sours really. But, I pulled a little beer from the bottom and it smelled great. No off smells and a finger taste from what I pulled off was bright and hoppy and had no off flavors either. I’m gonna rack it to a keg and carb it up. We will see what it does. Been in fermenter for over a month now.
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Dump it. He's dead, Jim.

Don't feck around with it and attempt to do something heroic - you'll live with anxiety. Toss with prejudice and don't look back.

Consider your cleaning regiment. Starsan everything that touches the beer after the boil.
 
The only issue is getting the keystone cops that work there to figure out how to find the box in the back. I think three of them went back and forth 6 or 7 times. I showed them my paid receipt on my phone several times. I’m not sure they’d seen an iPhone before and unless they were faking it they for sure never had a ship to store pick up.
 
brewbama said:
The only issue is getting the keystone cops that work there to figure out how to find the box in the back. I think three of them went back and forth 6 or 7 times. I showed them my paid receipt on my phone several times. I’m not sure they’d seen an iPhone before and unless they were faking it they for sure never had a ship to store pick up.
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Lol. I had an easier time last week. Gave a dude my name and he radioed another who promptly brought the box up. I kept asking, don't you need this bar code they sent to my phone? Dude said, no, they send you emails that have nothing to do with our in store system. But as he was speaking, and printing a receipt for me to sign, he had tapped his computer and my phone instantly alerted me that I had claimed my package. Seems like a lot of moving parts that need some rationalization!
 
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