What temp is correct to sparge?

[jessej122]

Ok only done 1 AG brew but I was under the assumption you should sparge at the same temp you mash at,but as I've been reading been hearing people sparging at higher temps like 168 which is the right way?

 

[n240sxguy]

I've always heard you should sparge around 170.

 

[CadillacAndy]

170F is the normal temp that most people go with. I batch sparge at 120F (temp my tankless water heater puts out) and get just a little lower efficiency than at 170F.

The idea is that 170F makes the sugar more soluble and easier to rinse from the grain.

 

[wailingguitar]

basically the same range as strike water; 168-178 or so

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

I thought the mash out was to kill the enzymes, and after that sparge in range 70 to 75 deg C

 

[Bobby_M]

If fly sparging and mashing out, use 170f. If batch sparging with no deliberate mash out infusion then use 185f.

 

[duboman]

Agree with all of the above! The mash out is only necessary when fly sparging to stop an further conversion, for batch sparging it is not necessary.

The main concern with temperatures that are too hot (over 168) relates to tannin extraction but this is both a factor of too high a pH as well as temperature. If your mash pH is in the correct range then warmer temperatures will not extract tannins but if your pH is out of range this becomes an issue, particularly with darker grains in the grist.

 

[TyTanium]

There are lots of areas to be precise when homebrewing; this isn't one of them for me.

Just use hot water. Temp doesn't matter all that much. The increase in efficiency between 120F and 170F is trivial and well within the margin of error for most homebrewers.

The only exception would be if you aren't monitoring alkalinity; then keep the grain bed under 170F to keep the tannins at bay.

 

[nosnhojm20]

I would never go above 170 for fear of the risk of tannin extraction. I batch out at 168, let it sit ten minutes to get all the sugars back in solution and kill enzymes.

 

[samuelcollins]

If fly sparging and mashing out, use 170f. If batch sparging with no deliberate mash out infusion then use 185f.

Yes! Dead on.

 

[samuelcollins]

I would never go above 170 for fear of the risk of tannin extraction. I batch out at 168, let it sit ten minutes to get all the sugars back in solution and kill enzymes.

Too long

 

[Bobby_M]

One practical reason to get your sparge water at least up into the 170F area (rather than warm or cold water) is that it shortens your time to boil. You're sitting there waiting for the sacc rest to be done so you might as well spend that time getting the end result up to temp.

 

[samuelcollins]

Good point, I once used cold water on a batch sparge (just to try it) and it took my wort temp way down. Took forever to get to boil temp.

 

[AnOldUR]

It's kind of like when you're fermenting your wort. You want the wort temperature to be at say 68 degrees, not the ambient room temperature. Same with sparging. You want the mash temperature to settle at 165-170 after stirring. If you mashed at 150 that going to take sparge water in the 185 degree range for batch sparging, like Bobby said. Add the sparge water, stir REALLY well, vorlauf, lauter. No need to wait.

 

[samuelcollins]

Yep, no need to wait. When batch sparging stir, stir, stir. I'd say stir a few minutes, don't idly let it just sit there.

 

[nosnhojm20]

185 is too high in my book,the grains are already hot from the mash. Plus it takes time for the temp to cool. I know opinions are like balloon knots, everyone's got one.

To save time I get my first runnings on the burner heating up to boil while I am getting my second. I collect in my bottling bucket and then run high temp silicone tubing from the spigot to get it to the BK, gravity fed from my picnic table.

 

[BackAlley]

185 is too high in my book,the grains are already hot from the mash. Plus it takes time for the temp to cool. I know opinions are like balloon knots, everyone's got one.

+1. Especially if you're batch sparging twice.

 

[Bobby_M]

Everyone has opinions but some of them are based on experience and math A typical 12 pound grain bill sacc rested at 155F @ 1.25qt/lb ratio will end up just under 170F after you infuse about 3.5 gallons of 185F sparge water. If you break that sparge into two @ 1.75 gallons, each at 185F, the equilibrium temp after the second sparge is actually about 165F. I don't mean any disrespect, but can explain why you think it's too hot?

 

[nosnhojm20]

And no disrespect coming from me either. IMO it will take time to reach its rest temp, and while its cooling down (grain absorbing temp) hulls are still exposed to the 170+ degree sparge which scares me. I've only pulled tannins once and wouldn't do it again. You very well might be right though.

 

[samuelcollins]

170 should not be enough to extract tannins.

 

[kh54s10]

From what I understand about batch sparging you are unlikely to extract tannins no matter what temperature ,short of boiling, you use. You also need a certain PH level which is unlikely when batch sparging.

 

[Bobby_M]

And no disrespect coming from me either. IMO it will take time to reach its rest temp, and while its cooling down (grain absorbing temp) hulls are still exposed to the 170+ degree sparge which scares me. I've only pulled tannins once and wouldn't do it again. You very well might be right though.

This is probably just a misunderstanding about sparging types. I was careful to specify that in batch sparging, 185 is perfectly fine. You add the water and stir pretty aggressively for 3 minutes and you're done. The temp equalizes quickly and the buffering capacity of the grain keeps pH from drifting up to tannin extraction range. If you fly sparge, my 185F sparge temp recommendation is void.

 

[nosnhojm20]

That is a good point. I concede to the "everyone has an opinion", and as long as we are making great beer it surely doesn't matter. Cheers, y'all!

 

[Denny]

If batch sparging with no deliberate mash out infusion then use 185f.

Or even higher if you like and your pH is correct.

 

[Denny]

I would never go above 170 for fear of the risk of tannin extraction. I batch out at 168, let it sit ten minutes to get all the sugars back in solution and kill enzymes.

Try it and prove to yourself that your fear is unfounded. Assuming you know your pH is correct. Also, your temp is not high enough to denature enzymes and 10 min, is too short a time even if you were at the right temp. Finally, if you batch sparge, a mashout is unnecessary.

 

[nosnhojm20]

Ph does have something to do with it, but temperature does as well. I found this after a 2 second google search, I'm trying to avoid a pissing contest.

Article states Ph has something to do with it, but read on to find:
"Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F."

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1...me--reducing-tannins-but-not-flavor-mr-wizard

 

[AnOldUR]

So, you're saying that a decoction will guarantee a tannin laced beer?


Time, temperature and pH all have to be taken into account. Looking at one without considering the others is pointless.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Ph does have something to do with it, but temperature does as well. I found this after a 2 second google search, I'm trying to avoid a pissing contest.

Article states Ph has something to do with it, but read on to find:
"Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F."

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1...me--reducing-tannins-but-not-flavor-mr-wizard

That's an article from 1999. We're smarter now. Although how we ever thought that temp could lead to tannin extraction by itself when decoction mashes have existed for centuries is beyond me.

Keep your pH in appropriate range, you won't have problems with tannin extraction. If you don't keep your pH in check, then I imagine hotter temps can speed up tannin extraction.

 

[nosnhojm20]

You're right. I bow out defeated.

 

[samuelcollins]

I don't think it was a contest. I think I speak for many when I say no one should feel 'defeated' in this healthy discourse on a complicated topic. This is how we get better at our hobby is all. Over time new things are learned, unlearned, relearned, reinvented. Sometimes it is just as much art as science.

 

[Denny]

Ph does have something to do with it, but temperature does as well. I found this after a 2 second google search, I'm trying to avoid a pissing contest.

Article states Ph has something to do with it, but read on to find:
"Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F."

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1...me--reducing-tannins-but-not-flavor-mr-wizard

Well, there's what you read, and there's what you experience. And as pointed out above, if it was about temp, decoction mashes couldn't be done.

 

[TyTanium]

I'd always read not to worry about tannins when batch sparging. Then I had tannins. Turns out that water alkalinity does matter. Since adjusting pH, no more tannins, even at very high temps.

 

[Denny]

I'd always read not to worry about tannins when batch sparging. Then I had tannins. Turns out that water alkalinity does matter. Since adjusting pH, no more tannins, even at very high temps.

So many people take that the wrong way. You certainly do have to make sure the mash pH is correct. Then it is unlikely the pH will rise during the batch sparge, as long as your water isn't extreme. If you have really alkaline water, you do need to be careful, even with batch sparging.

 

[TyTanium]

Yup, exactly. I even did all the adjustments for the mash, and figured I was fine for sparge. Then got tannins on some super pale beers and was confused. 1mL phosphoric acid to sparge water and no more tannins. And I have only moderately alkaline water.

 

[Denny]

Yup, exactly. I even did all the adjustments for the mash, and figured I was fine for sparge. Then got tannins on some super pale beers and was confused. 1mL phosphoric acid to sparge water and no more tannins. And I have only moderately alkaline water.

Wow, that's a surprisingly small amount to make such a difference! Glad ya got it sussed.

 

[TyTanium]

Wow, that's a surprisingly small amount to make such a difference! Glad ya got it sussed.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. My variables aren't controlled enough for it to be anything more than anecdotal/experiential, but tannins are gone and that's good enough for me.

 

[Denny]

Yeah, that's what I thought too. My variables aren't controlled enough for it to be anything more than anecdotal/experiential, but tannins are gone and that's good enough for me.

yeah, man!

 

[TheSmithsEra]

. . so if i batch sparge with 185 degree water that has had 5.2 PH stabilizer added I should be fine?!

 

[Jipper]

Not too certain which pH the tannin extraction starts to escalate at, but certainly interested in that information. I use 5.2 in my mash and HLT so not a huge concern, but still interested to find out.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you don't mash out to 168-169, but you sparge with 170-185, you'll be raising the mash temperature up and essentially mashing at a higher temperature for the duration of your sparge.

Example: Mash at 150°F, don't mash out, sparge at 180°F. That temperature will find a happy medium around 160-165° and you'll be around that temp for 20-60 minutes depending on how fast you sparge and what size batch you're brewing. Just something to consider!

 

[Yooper]

. . so if i batch sparge with 185 degree water that has had 5.2 PH stabilizer added I should be fine?!

No, not necessarily. Remember that the 5.2 stabilizer doesn't really work to lock in a mash pH anyway (check out our brewing science area for more on why that is).

If you have alkaline water, as I do, the sparge pH easily can go above 6, with or without the 5.2 stabilizer. I normally sparge with RO water now, or use acid (like phosphoric or lactic) to reduce the alkalinity of the sparge water.

Bru'n water is a nice water spreadsheet that has a sparge worksheet for keeping your sparge pH under 6 to avoid risking tannin extraction.