What PID should I get?

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Chrisde

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I have seen a lot about the Alberin SYL 2352 but it is a lot more expensive than a lot of other options. I have found some PID with ssr and thermocoupler for 20$.

What's the difference? I need one that has a manual control option. Any suggestions on a cheap option? Sorry for such a basic question but I have tried finding comparisons and all I find is comparisons of the algorithms which makes absolutely no since to me.
 
Mypin TD4 with Fotek SSR are on eBay for cheap as a package. Main difference is Auber has some good info and support, the Mypins just have a few threads on here and an OKish manual. They're still pretty easy to setup, and there's a few of us here that can help. The Aubers also have a way nicer mounting bracket. The MyPins for me operate just as well as my old 2352, and at the price point they're fantastic.
 
Auber if you have the money for same reasons as stated above.

I have two TD4's and they work very well and were easy to set up and use. Pretty cheap also..
 
the manual mode works better on the TD4 than the auber from what I have read...(changes multiple times a second) I use the mypin td4s myself.

You can also buy the auber as a knockoff, likely from the guys that make it for auber in china here..

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ature-Controller-XMT612/209587_598878204.html

its completely identical to the analog auber units.

Bottom line is they are all chinese but auber charges a lot more for thier "support" The funny thing is it doesnt stop people from coming here for support for them.
 
augiedoggy said:
the manual mode works better on the TD4 than the auber from what I have read...(changes multiple times a second) I use the mypin td4s myself.



You can also buy the auber as a knockoff, likely from the guys that make it for auber in china here..



http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ature-Controller-XMT612/209587_598878204.html



its completely identical to the analog auber units.



Bottom line is they are all chinese but auber charges a lot more for thier "support" The funny thing is it doesnt stop people from coming here for support for them.
Click to expand...


So... Buy my pin and call auber for support??? That's my plan if I really can't figure my mypins out ha. Though there is a lot of info on them here
 
Wow. Everyone I type a response I get a message that says something like "you don't have permission" and I lose the response (the first time i try). That's annoying. So here we go again.

Thanks for the responses. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Is there something to look for in the description to know if these have a manual mode or will it specifically say "manual mode" and if it doesn't it doesn't have one?
 
The mypin td4 have manual. I think some of the auber do too. Go to auberins.com and read the specs on their various models. Should say they have a manual mode
 
Chrisde said:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

What do you think about this set up? I would like a 40 amp ssr but I may install a fan to cool things down anyhow. I am also working on building an electric smoker so if this ssr gets too hot I will use it for smoker and get me a 40 or 50 amp.
Click to expand...

I'm in the beginnings of switching to electric myself. The thing I don't like about that package is like you said. You're using a 25 amp ssr and if you're putting it with a 5500W heating element...5500W/240V = 22.92 amps. So you're running at almost 92% when you've got it on full bore. Seems like that'd put a lot of stress on it and cause it to fail sooner rather than later.

I'm going to go with the 40 amp ssr's and the corresponding heat sinks. But as you said, if you're going to end up putting it with your smoker then I don't see how that's a bad buy...except you'll have up to 3 of them depending on your build.
 
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Chrisde said:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

What do you think about this set up? I would like a 40 amp ssr but I may install a fan to cool things down anyhow. I am also working on building an electric smoker so if this ssr gets too hot I will use it for smoker and get me a 40 or 50 amp.
Click to expand...


That's the exact package I bought. I bought two of them. One for my HLT one for my BK. I plan to run 5500w elements with them. I also was concerned about the rating, but I will be incorporating 2 small computer fans that will blow across my heat sinks. If I find that they get too hot for my comfort I may upgrade. But from what I've read, once you get the BK up to boil with a 5500 watt element, you run it about 50-60% after that to retain a nice boil. So it'd more like 15 amps at that point. Same goes for HLT I'm thinking.
 
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It's definitely a higher utilization. In industrial applications SSRs are recommending to be sized to only use around 70% of the max rating. That's for continuous industrial use though.

Would it be good practice to get a 40A? Sure. But are you going to have the SSR fail pretty quickly with a couple hours of use a few times a month? I don't think so. But I can't guarantee it.

Looking at eBay:
MyPins are ~$27
40A Foteks are ~$7
Heatsinks can be had for cheap. So just decide if the peace of mind is worth a few more bucks to you.


Edit: here's a reasonably priced 40A SSR and heatsink combo. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solid-State...842?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf748cbaa
 
iijakii said:
It's definitely a higher utilization. In industrial applications SSRs are recommending to be sized to only use around 70% of the max rating. That's for continuous industrial use though.

Would it be good practice to get a 40A? Sure. But are you going to have the SSR fail pretty quickly with a couple hours of use a few times a month? I don't think so. But I can't guarantee it.

Looking at eBay:
MyPins are ~$27
40A Foteks are ~$7
Heatsinks can be had for cheap. So just decide if the peace of mind is worth a few more bucks to you.


Edit: here's a reasonably priced 40A SSR and heatsink combo.
Click to expand...


What would you suggest for a max temp to watch for on an ssr? I have an IR thermometer I want to meter mine with
 
Fotek's spec sheet says max temp is 80C.

Auber's site says not to go above 70C.

Crydom's spec sheet says max internal temp of 120C.

If you have it mounted to a heatsink outside, it really shouldn't be getting too hot. The inside of my panel gets warm, not hot. If you are mounting the heatsink on the inside you really need a fan and vent.
 
iijakii said:
Fotek's spec sheet says max temp is 80C.

Auber's site says not to go above 70C.

Crydom's spec sheet says max internal temp of 120C.

If you have it mounted to a heatsink outside, it really shouldn't be getting too hot. The inside of my panel gets warm, not hot. If you are mounting the heatsink on the inside you really need a fan and vent.
Click to expand...


Hmm. I was going to mount them on the inside and have a fan blow through them. I may need to re think that
 
There's people here that do it and it works fine. Personally I'd rather mount to the outside instead of dicking with a fan, but do what you want. Just check and make sure the fan is keeping it cool enough.
 
iijakii said:
Looking at eBay:
MyPins are ~$27
40A Foteks are ~$7
Heatsinks can be had for cheap. So just decide if the peace of mind is worth a few more bucks to you.
Click to expand...

I think I will do this instead. Thank you.
 
FWIW I use a small fan inside the panel to cool 3 heat sinks. Vents on both sides. Works very well and the panel stays cool.
 
Mojzis said:
FWIW I use a small fan inside the panel to cool 3 heat sinks. Vents on both sides. Works very well and the panel stays cool.
Click to expand...

I have an old Xbox that I am going to take the fan out of and install it in the box just... well because I have it and can't hurt anything.
 
Personally, I would much prefer a sealed panel with an exterior mount heat sink, rather than circulating air and dust through the interior of the panel. Either will work for cooling, and you can always use a fan to circulate air through the exterior mount heat sink if necessary.
 
jeffmeh said:
Personally, I would much prefer a sealed panel with an exterior mount heat sink, rather than circulating air and dust through the interior of the panel. Either will work for cooling, and you can always use a fan to circulate air through the exterior mount heat sink if necessary.
Click to expand...

While I totally can see that this can be a concern I believe it depends on how dirty your environment is... I have had mine apart a lotto add stuff recently and theirs no dust to speak of inside after almost 2 years now... when brewing the air is likely moist enough from whatever steam doesn't make it out of my hood to prevent the dust from being present in the air in noticeable amounts...

Anyway most electronics have vented enclosures... Even those with fans, when was the last time you saw a pc or a tv without ventilation holes? there are other components that generate some heat... even wiring can get warm depending on the gauge and amps load. I also have heat sinks on my pwm controllers to keep cool
 
Chrisde said:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087O6S2A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

What do you think about this set up? I would like a 40 amp ssr but I may install a fan to cool things down anyhow. I am also working on building an electric smoker so if this ssr gets too hot I will use it for smoker and get me a 40 or 50 amp.
Click to expand...

I also have one of these 25 amp knock off fotek ssrs that came with one of my mpins... I have had no issues with any of my cheap ssrs but I use thermal grease and a fan and also only use 4500w elements. I have read of many failures and at least some of those were defective and not assembled/wired wrong. I have been using one now for close to 2 years but swapped out the other two for a dual teledyne unit to save space.
 
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HumulusHead said:
... from what I've read, once you get the BK up to boil with a 5500 watt element, you run it about 50-60% after that to retain a nice boil. So it'd more like 15 amps at that point. Same goes for HLT I'm thinking.
Click to expand...


Be aware that even though manual mode is whatever you set it to, the element is going to pull the entire amount of current for that percentage of the duty cycle. If you have a 2 second duty cycle and set manual to 50% it will pull 23 amps for a 5500w element for 1.0 seconds and be completely off for 1.0 seconds.
 
stlbeer said:
Be aware that even though manual mode is whatever you set it to, the element is going to pull the entire amount of current for that percentage of the duty cycle. If you have a 2 second duty cycle and set manual to 50% it will pull 23 amps for a 5500w element for 1.0 seconds and be completely off for 1.0 seconds.
Click to expand...

Yes this it a common mistake people make. The difference between pwm control and using an ssvr with a potentiometer... In laymen's terms The latter uses less power at a lower setpoint and pwm just turns full power on and off at different speeds quickly to accomplish the same goal.
 
Chrisde said:
I have seen a lot about the Alberin SYL 2352 but it is a lot more expensive than a lot of other options. I have found some PID with ssr and thermocoupler for 20$.

What's the difference? I need one that has a manual control option. Any suggestions on a cheap option? Sorry for such a basic question but I have tried finding comparisons and all I find is comparisons of the algorithms which makes absolutely no since to me.
Click to expand...

Not sure anyone answered this original question. What you get with the Auberin is a reasonable manual you can actually understand, plus support. The TD4 has, I think, different pin outs and programming and has a crap manual, but works. That all said, I have a TD4 as I seem to value my money more than my time.:mug:
 
augiedoggy said:
Yes this it a common mistake people make. The difference between pwm control and using an ssvr with a potentiometer... In laymen's terms The latter uses less power at a lower setpoint and pwm just turns full power on and off at different speeds quickly to accomplish the same goal.
Click to expand...

I just ran the wires from my house panel. Since I have a heat stick that I plan on using for strike I ran one from 30a 240 (10ga) and one from 20a 120 (12ga). The 240 will solely be for heating element. 120 for heat stick, fan/vent hood/pump. I think this will simplify my box and ensure I have plenty of power for element.
 
I would like to use a k type thermocoupler. I would like to a way to disconnect the wire from either the pot or controller (preferably controller ) suggestions? All I find r probes with wires to connect to pid.
 
Chrisde said:
I would like to use a k type thermocoupler. I would like to a way to disconnect the wire from either the pot or controller (preferably controller ) suggestions? All I find r probes with wires to connect to pid.
Click to expand...


http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=189

I know this is RTD, but this is what you are looking for. Connector at pot and panel. I'm going I route.

I imagine you can make something just like this with a k type. Maybe this website even has one, but I didn't see it
 
Not to hijack the thread but I believe its kind of relevant-

is the only difference between the td4 and ta4 manual mode? In my reading it seems that way. Therefore in a mash tun or HLT ta4 for cheaper may be a good option.

Thank you.
Jim
 
I have Auber 2352's and a MyPin TD4. Maybe it's a psychological trick but in my opinion the Auber is very slightly better quality than the MyPin. At least the front stickers are applied on center and the mounting bracket is a bit more solid.

On the other hand any PID's under $100 are bottom-shelf. Over $100 you start getting into mid-range quality.
 
The Mypin TA4 works very well for me but I did succumb to using at SCR Voltage Regulator to control the output. This gave me a nice warming of the element with no worries about scorching. With the full manual ability and fahrenheit display, $15 was a steal! My keezer has one as well on manual with P, I & D all set at 0 and running at 40°F.

I cant be happier.
 
orangehero said:
I have Auber 2352's and a MyPin TD4. Maybe it's a psychological trick but in my opinion the Auber is very slightly better quality than the MyPin. At least the front stickers are applied on center and the mounting bracket is a bit more solid.

On the other hand any PID's under $100 are bottom-shelf. Over $100 you start getting into mid-range quality.
Click to expand...

The menus and function structure are likely better on the auber but they are likely pretty close in quality since they are both made in China at the same pricepoint but auber generally doubles the prices on most of the products they buy and markup to resell.

And what do we base the term "quality on here? Functionality or sticker placement? I myself don't mind if the sticker is off a fraction vs the auber since it meant the difference between spending $150 vs $60 for three of them shipped to me.... Now the cheapest I can find the td4 with is $27 shipped

The fact that a side by side comparison done here by brumatuer of the disassembled auber and the clone I linked above show the components are all identical and those are sold for the same price as the mypins makes me question whether the auber units really are better made... (There is a very good chance the " 612" model I linked above are just units being sold direct from the manufacturer who makes that particular model for aubrins.) Especially since its already known that much of other auber brand components are just generic China products or other brand components rebranded to the auber name brand.
 
jimbonnet said:
Not to hijack the thread but I believe its kind of relevant-

is the only difference between the td4 and ta4 manual mode? In my reading it seems that way. Therefore in a mash tun or HLT ta4 for cheaper may be a good option.

Thank you.
Jim
Click to expand...

If I was doing a 3 tier I would go with one of these also but I am doing a biab system so need the td4 to control the boil.

I will have plenty of room in the control box to add one to my heatstick outlet in the future if I continue using it for spare water.
 
Chrisde said:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00899A4LY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

How does the thermocoupler look? If this doesn't work could someone suggest a k type that will?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

is there a reason you dont want to use an RTD like a pt100 sensor? they usually have superior performance in this type of application and I believe they are more forgiving to things like cable length and splices but Im not positive...
something like this..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A74JIGQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
Last edited by a moderator:
augiedoggy said:
is there a reason you dont want to use an RTD like a pt100 sensor? they usually have superior performance in this type of application and I believe they are more forgiving to things like cable length and splices but Im not positive...
something like this..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A74JIGQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Click to expand...

Hadn't seen those near that price. Thanks for the link. Also, from what I have seen the k types are easier to set up and I have never done anything like this before so was hoping for ease of use of k type but if these r better I will go this route. Just need to find a disconnect for the panel now and I will b set.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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