What Kind of Funk (infection) Do I have?

[malnutriton]

I got an infection problem in the last 5 batches that I just cant seem to kick or identify. Everything is the same in my process and I have viewed the other infection posts and tried those suggestions (change sanitizers, bleach everything, dry yeast etc.). I really want to know what it is and then KILL it. Here is what it is doing

Starts good and with in 4 hours will start to krausin. Then when the krausin falls it gets these little bubbles on the top. Upon closer inspection there ar little bubbles comming from the bottom that have chunks of yeast/bact. on them. I taste them and depending on the type of beer it either tastes astringent or sulfur like an egg. In the one I left alone in the fermenter it developed a HUGE layer of slimy looking krud on the bottom and it is stratified to where you can see the trub, yeast, and then the funk.

My keggerator needs your help as it is almost empty!

What Is This?

Thanks,

Mal

 

[smizak]

That sounds....normal.

Does the beer taste bad after being kegged for awhile? If your tasting little bits of yeast/trub stuck together in incompletely fermented beer, my guess is that it won't be pleasant.

 

[Coastarine]

Doesn't sound that strange...pictures maybe?

 

[Revvy]

Yeah, I agree with everyone else, all that you describe, sounds exactly like all the normal signs of fermentation...


You are tasting beer in the process of fermentaton and judging it? It is always going to taste, smell, and look like ****. Fermentation is one of the nastiest process imaginable...

You really NEVER judge a beer until it has been a minimum 3 weeks in the bottle...there's so many chemical processes that the beer goes through in that period of time, that it really ir for the most part ridiculus to try to judge it...soome beers may even take MONTHS before they shed certain flavors, especially in high grav beers...

Sorry, but I'm thinking you are just jumping the gun on these beers and describing what is perfectly normal and fugly as infected...besides you can't really SEE bacteria...

Uh, you might wanna read this thread as well...https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...e-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254//url]

 

[malnutriton]

Thats what i thought through the first 3 encounters with this stuff. I have done over 50 batches and have seen some weird things that I woried about but then the beer went on to be clean and even to win some local comps. So with these I let the fermentation go...and go...and go, the first i crashed in the carboy at 25 days. Kegged, carbed, and tasted after 2 weeks in the fridge. It has an astringent taste. The next to I let go for 30 days and they still had airlock activity. They were the ones that I could see little gobs of stuff being carried to the surface by tiny bubbles. They were stouts and both tasted like eggs from the carboys. Still have em but they stink when I check em. I also did a low gravity lager that has activity at 5 weeks. Gonna keg this one soon and lager it for 3 weeks then taste. Ill load some pics of the stout that is the most recient and the stout that has been going for weeks. I am not gonna brew for a while and get all my equipment empty so I can clean all of it at once. I bought some new plastics after a couple of these batchs but now I'm Gonna by all new stoppers(unless there is anyway to sterilize universial carboy bungs), hose, racking canes, and airlocks too.

 

[hammacks]

I'm right there with you bud, 4 out of my last 5. Depressing white balloons. Apparently my bleach attack was not enough. I think I will have to bleach within a few hours of pouring in the wort (massive amount of rinsing + starsan of course). I even used a refractometer to limit any exposure this time...FAILURE.

Oh, and I smell the egg, but taste more of a sour tang.

 

[Deacon240]

That looks like fermentation to me.

 

[hammacks]

Yeah the pic kinda looks like krausen doesn't it? You can't tell but it is a very thin white film with large balloon like bubbles. It's happened before and you can definently taste it. I have a keg of infected porter and another infected dry stout. They don't quite taste like Satan's anus (or what I can remember that tastes like), so I can't bring myself to dump them but I don't know how they will be consumed.

 

[BargainFittings]

The only time I had consistent problems with infection it was with my bottling bucket, raking canes and hoses.

The hoses and cane need to be cleaned with a brush so they can be sanitized properly.

Poppets on kegs can harbor nasties.

Another place for infections is the quick disconnects for your kegs. They come apart and need to be cleaned periodically.

Good luck on tracking down the cause.

 

[Coastarine]

I gotta admit, I would be very demoralized if I had multiple consecutive batches turn sour. Hang in there fellas.

 

[hammacks]

You know I think I will only use fresh starsan from now on. That is the most important part of sanitation and I've never really thought of it as a variable.

 

[malnutriton]

Feel yer pain! I Made another batch and i looks to have the same issue. I went back to doing an extract batch to save time and find out what the problem was. I have only one thing left to test and that is my chiller. I use an IC that I built on my own and think i might have a leak.??? Anyone else have an issue with homemade IC?

 

[hammacks]

Well, I just did a double header today with Dude's LWPA and a stout. These are for a party this Summer so I hope they don't go bad....but it wouldn't surprise me. My freaking hard lemonade got infected.

I've stopped using any buckets other than my two 'homebrew' ones in good condition. I waged war twice over the weekend armed with bleach.

Guess what I just realized? All my infected brews, that I can't dump out because they are not undrinkable, just sour, ARE IN ALL OF MY KEGS....AND MY BEER LINES. I feel pretty dumb.

Kegs: Replace all o-rings, or just bleach the hell out of them? Maybe I'll pour boiling water into the keg. Boil keg posts/tubes? I'll disassemble the QD's I guess. How about my beer lines? Should I BLC then bleach then BLC again or replace them? Is bleach OK on faucets?

 

[QueenCityALER]

If it is actually infection, then let's try to troubleshoot. You seem like you're really working hard on sanitization, and that's good. So lets go from the surface to the air. When you brew is it near any heat/air conditioning vents? Do you have a ceiling fan in during brewing? Or any kind of significant air movement? These things can blow contaminates into your wort no matter how well you sanitize your gear. Like I said, it seems you've really addressed sanitation, so we need to think outside the box a bit. This comes to mind first, for me at least. When I brew I make sure theres no fans on or significant air movement or breathing on it too closely. Either way, good luck!!!

 

[hammacks]

If it is actually infection, then let's try to troubleshoot. You seem like you're really working hard on sanitization, and that's good. So lets go from the surface to the air. When you brew is it near any heat/air conditioning vents? Do you have a ceiling fan in during brewing? Or any kind of significant air movement? These things can blow contaminates into your wort no matter how well you sanitize your gear. Like I said, it seems you've really addressed sanitation, so we need to think outside the box a bit. This comes to mind first, for me at least. When I brew I make sure theres no fans on or significant air movement or breathing on it too closely. Either way, good luck!!!

This is where my thoughts have been going as well. I brewed today with the heat off, no fans or anything. Other brewdays I'm sure stuff could have been moving. If these get infected, I will throw all plastic and vinyl out. No, actually I will burn it in a glorious bonfire.

Any thoughts on the kegs/kegerator?

Oh yeah, it's OK to jack old cars right?

 

[QueenCityALER]

This is where my thoughts have been going as well. I brewed today with the heat off, no fans or anything. Other brewdays I'm sure stuff could have been moving. If these get infected, I will throw all plastic and vinyl out. No, actually I will burn it in a glorious bonfire.

Any thoughts on the kegs/kegerator?

Oh yeah, it's OK to jack old cars right?

I don't keg my beers, just bottle condition exclusively, so I can't really give any real good insight into this, but good luck and don't stand too close to the bon fire, lest you warm your homebrew!!!

 

[Hikeon3]

I like running my lines with hot PBW, then a quick run with light bleach solution (1tbsp/5gal) in lukewarm water, then hot water to finish. Just fill up one keg with the PBW, one with the mild bleach solution (it's not going to pit your stainless in the 10-15 minutes of contact at such a low solution), and one with hot water. Switch em out one by one and run through your lines.

And if its your autosiphon/tubing, I've had good luck by making a closed circuit in a bucket of hot PBW and just pumping it for 5-10 minutes, followed by about 5 minutes of pumping in another bucket of iodophor. Tends to clean the bad boys out pretty well.

Also if you track it down to your buckets, get new ones and take care of them. I use a PBW soak and then a big fluffy sponge to clean my buckets out. Spray w/ Iodophor or starsan solution and turn upside down to dry. Also, be sure to give the spigot a good soak/sanitizing before use.

Stuff I'm sure you've heard before, but as always good sanitizing practices make good beer.

 

[hammacks]

I thought of something else. I usually crush all the grain just before I mash, and then am shaking the primary in the same room a few hours later. All of the air mixed into the wort is ambient room air that is bound to have some crushed grain particles.

What was weird about the whole thing was how it appeared in different batches that shared no post-boil equipment. It may have happened when the heat was first used...hmmmm and a few batches into AG....

I think the air movement plus grain crushing is a likely scenario. Oh, and to go with the actually OP question, could someone take a look at the picture I posted previously and tell me what it looks like? I'm pretty sure it's lacto (but could be pedo?).

Thanks for the responses. I posted in this older thread just to rant, but you guys are helping me make some game plans.

 

[Hikeon3]

As with every batch, give it time. It may turn out sour which sucks, yes. But it might turn out really good.

My initial reaction is that it may be lacto due to the large creamy white bubbles. Might want to try aerating in a different room than the crush. Or wrap the top in plastic before bringing into the room w/ the mill and then shake it with the good air. Just make sure you spritz some star-san on your bung/airlock or blowoff before putting it on. Any hovering bacterium would just love to catch a ride into the beer via the stopper.

Only one way to find out. Let it finish undisturbed, and if it settles out normally then bottle and wait. If you open it up in two weeks and there's still a slick white film over the thing, take a sample and a good whiff/small taste will make it apparent as to whether your fears were warranted.

 

[srm775]

I thought of something else. I usually crush all the grain just before I mash, and then am shaking the primary in the same room a few hours later. All of the air mixed into the wort is ambient room air that is bound to have some crushed grain particles.

What was weird about the whole thing was how it appeared in different batches that shared no post-boil equipment. It may have happened when the heat was first used...hmmmm and a few batches into AG....

I think the air movement plus grain crushing is a likely scenario. Oh, and to go with the actually OP question, could someone take a look at the picture I posted previously and tell me what it looks like? I'm pretty sure it's lacto (but could be pedo?).

Thanks for the responses. I posted in this older thread just to rant, but you guys are helping me make some game plans.

Didn't appear to be pedo to me. Pedo typically has a white film across the top with a spidery pattern. And, I think it usually results in a horse blanket type taste.