What is this?

[TheBeerGuy]

I made a standard ale with a little Crystal 20 for color and Pale 2-Row. I doughed in at 168 for a steep of 153. I used a Tbsp of 5.2 pH stabilizer into the mash as well. I held at this temp for 60 minutes and then started my boil. I added my two hop additions at 60 and 15 min and then a whirlfloc tab, yeast nutrient and copper immersion chiller at 10 min. I cooled rapidly from boil down to 100 F in about 10 min. I removed the hop bags and also the chiller after that and let stand at room temp to cool further with top covered all the time after flame out. I have a yeast starter cooking now and usually pitch after 24 hours. This is the process that I follow all the time and not I have the "stuff" floating in the carboy in the picture. I tasted the wort after I took my SG of 1.054 which is what I was shooting for, and it tastes great, maybe a little hoppy but my fruit addition in the secondary will help that as well.

Any thoughts what may be floating in my wort?

The white blotches on the outside of the carboy is just some hard water spots. I use spring water for all my beer, not the hard water from the tap. It is also holding at 68* F.

 

[bbrim]

Trub. If you can get it chilled to less than 70 quickly and rack to Carboy without disturbing the kettle that should mostly stay behind. I wouldn't be too alarmed. Have you pitched your yeast yet? How is that going?

 

[Kirkwooder]

It's likely hot break and will settle out in a week or so after fermentation has slowed. RDWHAHB You can rack off the trub after primary fermentation has slowed if you want to but it isn't necessary.

 

[Hello]

Could be some break material too. Nevertheless, it is all okay.

 

[TheBeerGuy]

Trub. If you can get it chilled to less than 70 quickly and rack to Carboy without disturbing the kettle that should mostly stay behind. I wouldn't be too alarmed. Have you pitched your yeast yet? How is that going?

I have not pitched my yeast as it is still in the starter flask growing. I think I needed 200B cells if my memory serves me and I started with a dry pack yesterday. I usually give my starter from dry yeast packs a good 24-36 hours to get going in about a 1.040 starter. They are ALIVE and well in the starter and reproduction is good.

 

[Kirkwooder]

Lately I've been racking my wort right onto the dry yeast just dumped into the bottom of the carboy. No rehydrating or anything. It has worked well for me!

 

[kombat]

I have not pitched my yeast as it is still in the starter flask growing. I think I needed 200B cells if my memory serves me and I started with a dry pack yesterday. I usually give my starter from dry yeast packs a good 24-36 hours to get going in about a 1.040 starter. They are ALIVE and well in the starter and reproduction is good.

Don't make starters with dry yeast. It depletes their built-in reserves that were intended to help them get a running start on the main batch, rather than a starter. Just pitch two packets (they're cheap). Rehydrate, but don't make a starter.

 

[kombat]

Lately I've been racking my wort right onto the dry yeast just dumped into the bottom of the carboy. No rehydrating or anything. It has worked well for me!

It will work, obviously, but you're likely underpitching. If you're happy with how your beer is turning out and would prefer not to think about things like yeast health and pitch rate, then more power to you. But objectively, unless you're making quite low gravity ales, you're almost certainly underpitching and stressing your yeast. This will result in off-flavours that can be reduced by simply rehydrating your dry yeast prior to pitching. That alone will roughly double your yeast pitch rate.

 

[Gavin C]

I have not pitched my yeast as it is still in the starter flask growing. I think I needed 200B cells if my memory serves me and I started with a dry pack yesterday. I usually give my starter from dry yeast packs a good 24-36 hours to get going in about a 1.040 starter. They are ALIVE and well in the starter and reproduction is good.

Making a starter with dry yeast is not a very good idea. The manufacturers do not advise doing this. It is also not needed for the batch you describe. Better to rehydrate it as per the manufacturers' instructions on their websites. This will optimize your pitch rate with dry yeast.

Cost wise it makes little sense too. If you need to double the yeast the cost of DME for a 2L starter -v- the cost of a second pack of dry yeast needs to be looked at.

The stuff in the carboy looks totally normal. Break material in all likelihood. No worries on that score.

 

[Kirkwooder]

It will work, obviously, but you're likely underpitching. If you're happy with how your beer is turning out and would prefer not to think about things like yeast health and pitch rate, then more power to you. But objectively, unless you're making quite low gravity ales, you're almost certainly underpitching and stressing your yeast. This will result in off-flavours that can be reduced by simply rehydrating your dry yeast prior to pitching. That alone will roughly double your yeast pitch rate.

I make mostly sub 1.060 OG ales, and they have been turning out great. Absolutely no off flavors and I generally have serious airlock activity within 12 hours, if not a fully fermenting, churning carboy.

I really can't bring myself to believe that rehydrating yeast in water is any different than rehydrating in wort.

It works very well for me. I don't find the need to be overly anal about yeast health and off flavors that don't seem to materialize in my beers. RDWHAHB

If it doesn't work for you then don't do it.

 

[kombat]

I make mostly sub 1.060 OG ales, and they have been turning out great. Absolutely no off flavors and I generally have serious airlock activity within 12 hours, if not a fully fermenting, churning carboy.

I believe you, but the science is conclusive. Yeast research is an extremely important topic in brewing, and with the billions of dollars at stake in the industry, the major players have invested heavily in thoroughly understanding and optimizing the role of yeast in brewing. We know what an "optimal" pitch rate is (Wyeast has a handy chart on their website). The number isn't arbitrary - it was calculated according to a variety of factors, such as optimizing lag time, minimizing undesirable flavours, maximizing attenuation, and so on. You're of course free to ignore all of this research and you'll still make perfectly good beer, but I'm interested in making the best beer possible.

I really can't bring myself to believe that rehydrating yeast in water is any different than rehydrating in wort.

I don't really know what to say to you besides, "it is." It's explained in the book "Yeast" by Chris White (of White Labs Yeast) and Jamil Zainasheff. There's a whole biological explanation for it that's well over my head (I'm not an organic chemist), but I trust the experts who did the research and will take them at their word for it.

It works very well for me. I don't find the need to be overly anal about yeast health and off flavors that don't seem to materialize in my beers.

Just because you don't notice them/are used to them doesn't mean they aren't there. Have you entered any of your beers into any competitions? Did any of the judges mention any off-flavours at all in any of their comments?

Again, if you're happy with your beer, that's all that matters. This is a hobby, it's supposed to be fun, not a chore. I guess it's in my nature to approach things analytically and to avail myself of the research and experience of experts far more knowledgeable than myself.

 

[TheBeerGuy]

Don't make starters with dry yeast. It depletes their built-in reserves that were intended to help them get a running start on the main batch, rather than a starter. Just pitch two packets (they're cheap). Rehydrate, but don't make a starter.

I have always made the starters on my dry yeast. Maybe thats where a little "off" flavor comes from. I will scrap that yeast and just get another dry packet of yeast from MLHBS tonight and direct pitch it or rehydrate it in some warm water depending on the manufacturers directions. I was shown how to make a starter about 7 years ago and have always done it, you know the old saying, if it aint' broke don't fix it. I never researched it and thought it was the right thing to do.

"Now I know and knowing is half the battle."
- G.I. Joe

 

[RM-MN]

I believe you, but the science is conclusive. Yeast research is an extremely important topic in brewing, and with the billions of dollars at stake in the industry, the major players have invested heavily in thoroughly understanding and optimizing the role of yeast in brewing. We know what an "optimal" pitch rate is (Wyeast has a handy chart on their website). The number isn't arbitrary - it was calculated according to a variety of factors, such as optimizing lag time, minimizing undesirable flavours, maximizing attenuation, and so on. You're of course free to ignore all of this research and you'll still make perfectly good beer, but I'm interested in making the best beer possible.



I don't really know what to say to you besides, "it is." It's explained in the book "Yeast" by Chris White (of White Labs Yeast) and Jamil Zainasheff. There's a whole biological explanation for it that's well over my head (I'm not an organic chemist), but I trust the experts who did the research and will take them at their word for it.



Just because you don't notice them/are used to them doesn't mean they aren't there. Have you entered any of your beers into any competitions? Did any of the judges mention any off-flavours at all in any of their comments?

Again, if you're happy with your beer, that's all that matters. This is a hobby, it's supposed to be fun, not a chore. I guess it's in my nature to approach things analytically and to avail myself of the research and experience of experts far more knowledgeable than myself.

I don't believe the science is as conclusive as we are led to believe. Fermentis guarantees a packet of US-05 has at least 6 billion cells per gram making a full packet equal to 66 billion. Sean Terrill claims it is 150 billion, Mr. Malty says there are 220 billion cells per packet. Who is right? The can't all be right.

 

[kombat]

Fermentis guarantees a packet of US-05 has at least 6 billion cells per gram

Note the emphasis. They're guaranteeing a rock-bottom minimum. If the yeast is old, and you sprinkle it dry, you can still count on at least 6 billion cells per gram. If you stored it properly, and it's fresh, and you rehydrate it according to their instructions, you can (and do) get many more than that, up to 20 billion cells per gram.

 

[RM-MN]

Note the emphasis. They're guaranteeing a rock-bottom minimum. If the yeast is old, and you sprinkle it dry, you can still count on at least 6 billion cells per gram. If you stored it properly, and it's fresh, and you rehydrate it according to their instructions, you can (and do) get many more than that, up to 20 billion cells per gram.

I'll give you that one as I would too if I ran a company like Fermentis but how do you reconcile the differences in the numbers reported by Sean Terrill and what is calculated by Mr. Malty. That's a pretty significant difference. Did one of them count and one guessed?

 

[kombat]

I'm not sure, to be honest, RM-MN. If I had to guess, I'd say it was a difference in yeast handling or cell counting protocols. And they're not really that far apart, are they? We're talking about 150 billion vs 220 billion. The 220 billion is the theoretical maximum of the packet (20 billion cells / gram * 11.5 grams = 230 billion). Maybe Sean's number is a more practical count, resulting from actual empirical experimentation?

 

[RM-MN]

I'm not sure, to be honest, RM-MN. If I had to guess, I'd say it was a difference in yeast handling or cell counting protocols. And they're not really that far apart, are they? We're talking about 150 billion vs 220 billion. The 220 billion is the theoretical maximum of the packet (20 billion cells / gram * 11.5 grams = 230 billion). Maybe Sean's number is a more practical count, resulting from actual empirical experimentation?

No, they aren't far apart. Mr. Malty's numbers are only 50% more than Sean Terrill's.

In science, that doesn't even qualify as a SWAG. A 5% error is quite a bit.

 

[singybrue]

Forget the 5.2 Snake oil

 

[falkaveli]

Don't make starters with dry yeast. It depletes their built-in reserves that were intended to help them get a running start on the main batch, rather than a starter. Just pitch two packets (they're cheap). Rehydrate, but don't make a starter.

Kombat,

I don't mean to sound like I'm challenging your statement/experience, but where did you hear about dry yeast glycogen depletion from a starter? Although I fully agree that it's worth it to just pitch another pack or three, it's my understanding that yeast will store glycogen just prior to flocculation after fermentation (in a starter or otherwise). If this wasn't the case, liquid yeast starters would have the same issue...as would re-pitched yeast in commercial breweries. Am I missing something?

 

[kombat]

where did you hear about dry yeast glycogen depletion from a starter?

Jamil mentions it in "Brewing Classic Styles," but doesn't explain the science behind the recommendation. I believe it's covered in the book "Yeast" by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff, although it's been a while since I've read it. Jamil also touches on it on his MrMalty website:

Another case where you generally don't want to make a starter is with dry yeast. It is usually cheaper and easier to just buy more dry yeast than it would be to make a starter large enough for most dry yeast packs. Many experts suggest that placing dry yeasts in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into their product. For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not make a starter.

 

[falkaveli]

Many experts suggest that placing dry yeasts in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into their product.[/url]:

That's interesting. Those gents are definitely more experienced than I am (and Heretic's beer is fantastic), but it is interesting that he seems to qualify the statement with the "many experts suggest..." statement. In the end, the conversation is likely moot considering we can always just pitch another packet and save time, energy, and in many cases, money. That being said, I've used a starter once for dry yeast (Nottingham...odd circumstance...LHBS too damn far and I was bored) and the brown ale turned out fantastic.