What exactly is so susceptible to oxygenation in NEIPA's/Other Varieties?

[MagicMike314]

As I've continued to read up more and more on the world of home brewing - One topic I've become very interested in is the world of NEIPA's. As someone who bottles (and one day will get into kegging), it seems as if bottling these are next to impossible.

I am really hoping to brew a few different milkshake IPA's, but am wondering if that's even worth my time when bottling is the end result. These recipes seem to feature a lot of the same ingredients (flaked oats, and heavy dry hopping), so it would lead to believe me these would tend to end up suffering the same oxygenated demise.

What exactly is it that makes NEIPA's so hard to bottle? Is it the enormous amount of dry hops added? Lack of hops in the boil? Flaked oats?

Milkshake IPA's seem to be well accepted by friends and family, so I'm hoping that even though I bottle - these can be made despite my setup!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

but am wondering if that's even worth my time when bottling is the end result.

In a different topic, I mentioned a couple of topics where people who bottle were getting ...

[...] bottles that are good for 40+ days.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...le-conditioned-ipa.653784/page-6#post-8877059

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...n-and-alternatives.686774/page-2#post-9054118

 

[MagicMike314]

So what is it that I should be looking for in recipes? Lack of hops in the boil schedule with it being heavily dry hopped?

Just trying to find out what I might have struggles with if I'm fermenting in a carboy!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

What exactly is it that makes NEIPA's so hard to bottle? Is it the enormous amount of dry hops added? Lack of hops in the boil? Flaked oats?

Oxygen can impact pretty much every flavour compound in beer (and other foods). Some are more susceptible than others, and some are negatively impacted while others are positive. Nobody would set out to seriously splash a fermented beer - the results would be quite bad - but micro oxygenation can help some flavour development in some cases. Think about the flavours in a barrel aged stout - part of that is from Oxygen exposure (oak barrels breathe). Acetic acid content in Flanders red ales can only occur with some Oxygen. I like a little bit of Oxygen in dark beers and English ales. Not such that I'd splash them, but I won't actively do everything I can to keep O2 out during packaging. On to NEIPA.....

The delicate components of hops that give the fresh fruity, piney, floral and spicy aroma and flavour are very volatile. Bittering isn't a problem, but get any O2 into finished beer and you degrade the hop flavour and aroma. That's what NEIPA is all about: late hops and dry hops and lots of them. The oats etc. are just about mouthfeel and haze. O2 won't do too much there. Yeast are more than happy to have some extra O2 - no problem there. It's really just the hops.

 

[MagicMike314]

Oxygen can impact pretty much every flavour compound in beer (and other foods). Some are more susceptible than others, and some are negatively impacted while others are positive. Nobody would set out to seriously splash a fermented beer - the results would be quite bad - but micro oxygenation can help some flavour development in some cases. Think about the flavours in a barrel aged stout - part of that is from Oxygen exposure (oak barrels breathe). Acetic acid content in Flanders red ales can only occur with some Oxygen. I like a little bit of Oxygen in dark beers and English ales. Not such that I'd splash them, but I won't actively do everything I can to keep O2 out during packaging. On to NEIPA.....

The delicate components of hops that give the fresh fruity, piney, floral and spicy aroma and flavour are very volatile. Bittering isn't a problem, but get any O2 into finished beer and you degrade the hop flavour and aroma. That's what NEIPA is all about: late hops and dry hops and lots of them. The oats etc. are just about mouthfeel and haze. O2 won't do too much there. Yeast are more than happy to have some extra O2 - no problem there. It's really just the hops.

This is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks so much for taking the time to explain!!

 

[tracer bullet]

I like a little bit of Oxygen in dark beers and English ales. Not such that I'd splash them, but I won't actively do everything I can to keep O2 out during packaging. On to NEIPA....

I have found the same. I can watch Galaxy flavor disappear from a beer over a week in a keg if I haven't tried a closed transfer, leaving me with a drinkable but fairly poor beer. Or the same process for an Oatmeal stout and I'll sense it getting better and better over a month or two.

It's frustrating, really. I'm leaning towards closed transfers and as little oxygen as possible, then trying to change up my recipes accordingly if I don't get what I want.

But - totally agreed, it's the oxygen and the hops that don't mix. And of course NEIPA has a boat load of hops.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Oxygen ingress is immediate. Oxidation may take a while to have a negative/positive impact.

Whether or not the impact can be mitigated appears to be the subject of a number of recent topics.

 

[Birrofilo]

As someone who bottles (and one day will get into kegging), it seems as if bottling these are next to impossible.

If you read the threads linked by @BrewnWKopperKat you will see that bottling NEIPAs is doable and with very good results.

The aces in your sleeve are:
a) CO2 cylinder to purge the bottleneck just before capping the bottle;
a-bis) Fill the bottle almost to the brim so as to minimize air in the bottle;
b) ascorbic acid in heavy amounts (something like 15g/hl);
c) general high attention toward oxygen problems (very gentle transfers, avoid any opening of the fermenter if you can, use proper bubbler etc.)

 

[chipmunk]

wondering if that's even worth my time when bottling is the end result

I’d say go for it - personally, I’ve never had issues with bottling IPA’s - even when I use normal (but careful) bottling techniques. I skip the cold crash, and dry hop at around 75% fermentation completion. I‘m always surprised at the difficulties some people are having with this - I wonder if recipies and pre-bottling techniques play a role.