What are your contrarian/"unpopular" beer opinions?

[jonny24]

Someone tell me how uninformed I am and why I should start all-grain if I'm wrong or you disagree!

I just like the satisfaction of doing it all myself. Same reason I hand- destemmed the grapes for my wine instead of just buying a bucket of juice.
One day I want to try malting my own barley, and growing it too. But that's a ways away for me.


But it seems like it doesn't do anything for you, so carry on

 

[r4dyce]

Heady Topper is THE most overrated beer in history.

 

[oylerck]

Heady Topper is THE most overrated beer in history.

I thought that was bud light

 

[bajaedition]

Been brewing 5+ years and gone down many of the rabbit holes to improve my process but never saw any benefit to doing all grain as opposed to extract with steeped grains. I can still get the flavors and OG I want by selecting the right quantities of the right grains and using the extract instead of base grains. And I don't have to worry about all issues that could arise from improper mashing procedures/chemistry.

So far I've had no discussions with concrete enough arguments to convince me it's worth it. The Three most popular pro arguments to all grain I've heard and my associated rebuttals:
1) "it's cheaper"
-- I'm not doing this to save money, it's a hobby and I like it. Making a batch that yeilds $1/bottle vs $.50/bottle would be inconsequential.
2) "you can make it taste more specifically how you want it to."
--see paragraph above
3) "Its not THAT much more work"
--but it is more work! With more risks!

Someone tell me how uninformed I am and why I should start all-grain if I'm wrong or you disagree!

let me sum it up ;like this........I do both, if I am in a pinch I can just extract, if I just do not want to bother with the big system, I will extract and use additives to get different results like mouthfeel etc. and if I want to get the best I can I do a triple rest infusion all grain where I can control every element I want to.

And that is why, it is about how much you want to hit a specific product.

Besides that, you get to brag more.

but all in all, if it is not for competition, and it is not a lighter beer style, yes you can hide a multiple amount of stuff in extract brewing.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Been brewing 5+ years and gone down many of the rabbit holes to improve my process but never saw any benefit to doing all grain as opposed to extract with steeped grains. I can still get the flavors and OG I want by selecting the right quantities of the right grains and using the extract instead of base grains. And I don't have to worry about all issues that could arise from improper mashing procedures/chemistry.

So far I've had no discussions with concrete enough arguments to convince me it's worth it. The Three most popular pro arguments to all grain I've heard and my associated rebuttals:
1) "it's cheaper"
-- I'm not doing this to save money, it's a hobby and I like it. Making a batch that yeilds $1/bottle vs $.50/bottle would be inconsequential.
2) "you can make it taste more specifically how you want it to."
--see paragraph above
3) "Its not THAT much more work"
--but it is more work! With more risks!

Someone tell me how uninformed I am and why I should start all-grain if I'm wrong or you disagree!

I won't tell you you're wrong or uninformed, but it sounds like you are using the argument that nobody has been able to convince you.
But have you tried it yourself?

I think it depends heavily on the styles you brew.

You can do a decent DIPA or stout with extract and grains.
You can not do a decent Munich Helles, Pils, or Festbier with extract and grains.
Yes I said it - you can not.
I did extract and grains for over 10 years, convinced that my beer was good enough and the change would only bring incremental improvements.
Until I started trying to brew lagers and German styles. They all came up short, which prompted me to go all grain and the dramatic improvement in quality was undeniable.

 

[MagicRat]

For homebrewers and others that can't measure IBU's, I think calculating IBU's for a recipe is silly. It's like calculating a pH reading or OG, you can estimate but if you aren't measuring it, why list it like it's a measurement? Why not just stick with AAU for your boiling hops, keep careful notes and just adjust based on your results?
Just seems too Rube Goldberg-like to me when you can just figure, OK I want 10-12 AAU for bittering this beer, do the calculations with the hops you're using and be done. Adding more additions late in the boil? Experience and good notes and knowing the beer style and what you want in the beer will tell you how to adjust the hop schedule.

There, I wrote it and you can pelt me with oxidized, rotten hops if you must.

I get what you're saying but I feel like as long as the AAU numbers are accurate, we're still all using a common point of reference when we decide what hops to use, how much, and when.

 

[brewstergalVT]

I get what you're saying but I feel like as long as the AAU numbers are accurate, we're still all using a common point of reference when we decide what hops to use, how much, and when.

I guess for me if I'm giving a recipe to a friend or posting it I'd just list what the amount I used for a particular hop, the AA%, how long in the boil for all the hop additions. I never calculate IBU's and since I can't measure them, I don't find a purpose in calculating IBU's. Since our systems may vary results will vary. To me it would be like calculating SRM, I really can't measure that but I know from past batches how to dial in color. I just think calculating IBU's is an unnecessary step, as in what's the point, but I'm pretty sure I'm the odd brewer out.

 

[r4dyce]

Been brewing 5+ years and gone down many of the rabbit holes to improve my process but never saw any benefit to doing all grain as opposed to extract with steeped grains. I can still get the flavors and OG I want by selecting the right quantities of the right grains and using the extract instead of base grains. And I don't have to worry about all issues that could arise from improper mashing procedures/chemistry.

So far I've had no discussions with concrete enough arguments to convince me it's worth it. The Three most popular pro arguments to all grain I've heard and my associated rebuttals:
1) "it's cheaper"
-- I'm not doing this to save money, it's a hobby and I like it. Making a batch that yeilds $1/bottle vs $.50/bottle would be inconsequential.
2) "you can make it taste more specifically how you want it to."
--see paragraph above
3) "Its not THAT much more work"
--but it is more work! With more risks!

Someone tell me how uninformed I am and why I should start all-grain if I'm wrong or you disagree!

I'd agree to the point you can make excellent beers with extract. But I also taste (and have brewed) extract beer that is poor to just ok. Personally I think it's easier (more repeatable for me) to make good beer with grains. But that's just me with my setup and I generally do smaller batches with all grain. If you're getting the results you want with extract, more power to you!

 

[seabrew8]

All grain in my opinion and experience is miles better then extract. No comparison.

Really who would bother with all grain if it was only a little better then extract?

 

[bajaedition]

All grain in my opinion and experience is miles better then extract. No comparison.

Really who would bother with all grain if it was only a little better then extract?

that does nail that

As I said, if I want it to be a great beer it is allgrain all the way and I do rest that guys claim are not needed. and it shows off in the end with a product that I can compare up to the beer I want to.

but if I am just doing a nondescript pale ale or something such as that, I will do extract.

no I am not a snob, I do both, its like sometimes you eat at McDonalds, and some times it is In and Out. Just depends on what the end product you want.

 

[brewcat]

All grain in my opinion and experience is miles better then extract. No comparison.

Really who would bother with all grain if it was only a little better then extract?

For someone that wants more control is the main thing. I really didn't notice a difference when I converted my extract recipes to all grain. They tasted like they should. My main reason for going all grain was because I had outgrown extract and needed more recipe control.

The biggest difference in taste came when I started kegging.

 

[seabrew8]

For someone that wants more control is the main thing. I really didn't notice a difference when I converted my extract recipes to all grain. They tasted like they should. My main reason for going all grain was because I had outgrown extract and needed more recipe control.

The biggest difference in taste came when I started kegging.

Yeah i prefer kegged beer over bottled beer has well.

 

[bkboiler]

It really annoys me when a commercial bottle of beer or wine doesn't have the ABV (or price) listed. Why isn't it legally required to post that? You order a beer thinking it's a moderate strength of 4% or 5% and find out it's a big 10% beer. Isn't that dangerous to not tell people?

A recent brewery I visited had a nitro beer on the menu but said to ask the server for that day's beer. I asked and she said it was a really good pale beer that most people like so I tried it. Tasted smooth and was super drinkable. She forgot to say it was a 11% barleywine....

On that note, i'm not a fan of going to a swanky tap room with loads of delicous beer, but no prices listed on the menu...some people may think that's classy or somehing, but not I.
I ordered a flight of four tasters at a place the other day and it was $20...i almost fell over...

 

[r4dyce]

On that note, i'm not a fan of going to a swanky tap room with loads of delicous beer, but no prices listed on the menu...some people may think that's classy or somehing, but not I.
I ordered a flight of four tasters at a place the other day and it was $20...i almost fell over...

Mind if I ask where? That doesn't seem at all high to me (Mass-Boston area). But everything is pricy here. I once went to a bar in suburban NJ and ordered a couple drinks bartender says $12. I say "oh, each?" He looks at me like I'm a psycho..."No all together". Oh ok..$12 isn't a bad price for 1 cocktail in Boston lol. $9 or $10 for a fancy brew isn't uncommon either.

 

[Lefou]

Speaking of price, I ordered a cheap brew with my dinner years ago just outside Savannah, Georgia.
Wanted a second beer, I found out the price had DOUBLED after 5PM due to some obscure rule. I told the server it felt like getting mugged but not having any knots or lumps on my head to show for it.
The guy working with me at the time laughed his @$$ off at this. We paid our bills and learned our lesson that "happy hour" isn't necessarily enjoyable everywhere.

 

[bkboiler]

Mind if I ask where? That doesn't seem at all high to me (Mass-Boston area). But everything is pricy here. I once went to a bar in suburban NJ and ordered a couple drinks bartender says $12. I say "oh, each?" He looks at me like I'm a psycho..."No all together". Oh ok..$12 isn't a bad price for 1 cocktail in Boston lol. $9 or $10 for a fancy brew isn't uncommon either.

a spot in San Diego called Brother's Provisions.

After i picked up my jaw I realized it was a reasonable price given that 3 of the 4 tasters i ordered were high ABV. if i had seen the price tho i would've thought twice, before ordering them. At least this place had the courtesy to post when high ABV beers were served in 8oz pours rather than full pints. some people prefer the fancy tulip glass. i prefer more beer!!

 

[Lefou]

More, better tasting session beers - preferably in a heavy liter mug you can bang on a wooden table.
A place where wine drinkers would fear and secretly wish they could fit in. :rockin:

 

[ChelisHubby]

I am a firm believer in a heavy glass mug and a cold one at that.

 

[r4dyce]

More, better tasting session beers - preferably in a heavy liter mug you can bang on a wooden table.
A place where wine drinkers would fear and secretly wish they could fit in. :rockin:

Aside from the drink of choice I often don't see much of a difference between a wine drinker and beer drinker nowadays. Wine has become less snobby and beer more snobby.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I have yet to have an IPA that I really liked. They're so bitter that it's off-putting to me. From what I can see, hoppy beers are kind of an acquired taste though, so that could change as I delve into brewing more beer styles.

 

[r4dyce]

I have yet to have an IPA that I really liked. They're so bitter that it's off-putting to me. From what I can see, hoppy beers are kind of an acquired taste though, so that could change as I delve into brewing more beer styles.

I totally get this too. I read somewhere that IPAs became the go to style for craft brewers initially not because they're​ popular but because the extra bitterness and hop flavors cover up mistakes from the mash, yeast, or uneven temperature control. It's an easy beer style to hide behind when starting out. There are a few IPAs that I enjoy, but largely I think they're pallet killers, and as a style on the commercial craft level it's boring, overplayed, over hyped.

 

[bajaedition]

I totally get this too. I read somewhere that IPAs became the go to style for craft brewers initially not because they're​ popular but because the extra bitterness and hop flavors cover up mistakes from the mash, yeast, or uneven temperature control. It's an easy beer style to hide behind when starting out. There are a few IPAs that I enjoy, but largely I think they're pallet killers, and as a style on the commercial craft level it's boring, overplayed, over hyped.

I have to agree 100 %

I think a balanced beer beats them in every corner, and that it has become stylish to drink them because hop heads are just trying to push the envelope
I prefer a good balanced continental lager, or Vienna
I say it all the time that if you think you can brew a good beer, then brew a American Lite beer. You have nothing to hide behind and you will find out fast if your chops are down. Even the slightest off flavor and you are toast.

 

[Bosh]

Balanced beer doesn't mean you can't have a **** ton of hops. You just have to have something else to balance them with. Mmmmmm RIS...

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I do enjoy a good IPA, but the real kicker is the term "Good" IPA.
80% of the IPAs on the commercial market and made by homebrewers are crap. People think you can just brew a mediocre beer, jam a ton of hops in it, call it an IPA and it'll be awesome.

Sorry, no.

A crappy beer is still a crappy beer, no matter how much hops is in it, and even a good beer can be made crappy by too much hops, especially the wrong kinds.

Of the last 5 commercial IPAs I've had in cans, bottles, or draft, I would only buy two of them again, and those were Treehouse Julius and Revolution Anti-Hero (both well known standouts). The rest ranged from mediocre to "who on earth thought it was worthwhile to bother canning this crap?"

 

[bajaedition]

I believe that most of these modern super IPAs are trying to capitalize on the Success of Stone's Arrogant Bastard Ale.

But there is a problem with that, you see if you were to drink Stone's Pale Ale you would see they have one of the best American Pale Ales on the market. It is a great example of a very well balanced Pale Ale. And they know how to brew great beer. Arrogant Bastard is just a extension of great brewing.

But it is extremely popular, those of us that are local to San Marcos, or Escondido as it is today, have loved Stones brews for years.

Because of the success you started seeing a lot of imitators, of course imitation is the worlds greatest flattery.

Unfortunately, 99% of the imitators are just brewing any ole thing they can and hopping the hell out of it. All they are doing is making a beer that strips your taste buds.
I want to enjoy a beer, not have to hack it down to prove I can.

Give me a Fullers ESB or a Rouge Dead Guy any day of the week.

I really miss Pete's Wicked

 

[r4dyce]

Of the last 5 commercial IPAs I've had in cans, bottles, or draft, I would only buy two of them again, and those were Treehouse Julius and Revolution Anti-Hero (both well known standouts).

Did you go to treehouse? I've heard great things but haven't made it out there yet.
It's not too far from me but the combination of work schedule and their hours haven't made it easy for me to visit yet. I've also heard I can be a bit of a mad house there and Im really against waiting in line to buy beer lol.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I really miss Pete's Wicked

HA! Man, I used to LOVE PWA back in college!
I also used to like their Strawberry Blonde.

 

[motosapiens]

Been brewing 5+ years and gone down many of the rabbit holes to improve my process but never saw any benefit to doing all grain as opposed to extract with steeped grains. I can still get the flavors and OG I want by selecting the right quantities of the right grains and using the extract instead of base grains. And I don't have to worry about all issues that could arise from improper mashing procedures/chemistry.

So far I've had no discussions with concrete enough arguments to convince me it's worth it. The Three most popular pro arguments to all grain I've heard and my associated rebuttals:
1) "it's cheaper"
-- I'm not doing this to save money, it's a hobby and I like it. Making a batch that yeilds $1/bottle vs $.50/bottle would be inconsequential.
2) "you can make it taste more specifically how you want it to."
--see paragraph above
3) "Its not THAT much more work"
--but it is more work! With more risks!

Someone tell me how uninformed I am and why I should start all-grain if I'm wrong or you disagree!

You might not be uninformed. You might just have bad taste.

Seriously, I found the taste difference between steeped grains and mashed grains to be profound. What got me into all-grain brewing was holding my steeped grains at an actual mash temperature once. That's when I realized how easy it was.

 

[motosapiens]

I have to agree 100 %

I think a balanced beer beats them in every corner, and that it has become stylish to drink them because hop heads are just trying to push the envelope
I prefer a good balanced continental lager, or Vienna
I say it all the time that if you think you can brew a good beer, then brew a American Lite beer. You have nothing to hide behind and you will find out fast if your chops are down. Even the slightest off flavor and you are toast.

so brew something tasteless and suitable for little girls to drink at school just to prove a point? Meh, I think I will brew stuff I like, which typically includes lots of late hops.

 

[oylerck]

I'm not a fan of Stones IPA. Haven't tried the others. I like a lot of IPAs, specifically dry and bitter ones, but I don't like the hop combo in the Stone.

 

[SlitheryDee]

so brew something tasteless and suitable for little girls to drink at school just to prove a point? Meh, I think I will brew stuff I like, which typically includes lots of late hops.

Serious question: When did you realize you liked really hoppy beers? Did you have to build up to it or was it just love at first taste? I'm definitely going to be trying some higher IBU beers, but I find that I have a very low tolerance for hop bitterness. The few ipas I've had were all downright unpleasant because of it. Because of their undeniable popularity, I'm convinced I must be missing something though.

 

[ericbw]

Serious question: When did you realize you liked really hoppy beers? Did you have to build up to it or was it just love at first taste? I'm definitely going to be trying some higher IBU beers, but I find that I have a very low tolerance for hop bitterness. The few ipas I've had were all downright unpleasant because of it. Because of their undeniable popularity, I'm convinced I must be missing something though.

The appreciation does build up, but not everyone loves them. Some love biscuit malt, or saisons. Different strokes.

 

[r4dyce]

so brew something tasteless and suitable for little girls to drink at school just to prove a point? Meh, I think I will brew stuff I like, which typically includes lots of late hops.

I mean that's sort of silly. I think the point he was making is that hops can and do hide bad beer and it's more challenging to brew a good tasting better balanced beer than a very hoppy beer. And you could try brewing one to see. It's not like it takes long to brew, but i totally agree you should brew whatever you like drinking.

Just judging from my experience drinking very hoppy beers prevents me from enjoying anything except very hoppy beers. The same thing happens with spicy food. If you eat enough of it anything that's not spicy tastes like cardboard even if it's a food you used to love.

 

[dstockwell]

I'm definitely going to be trying some higher IBU beers, but I find that I have a very low tolerance for hop bitterness.

I wouldn't consider hoppy beers to have to be more bitter. You can bitter to the level you want then add tons of flavor/aroma hops without bitterness.

 

[motosapiens]

Serious question: When did you realize you liked really hoppy beers? Did you have to build up to it or was it just love at first taste? I'm definitely going to be trying some higher IBU beers, but I find that I have a very low tolerance for hop bitterness. The few ipas I've had were all downright unpleasant because of it. Because of their undeniable popularity, I'm convinced I must be missing something though.

I still don't usually care much for ueber-hoppy beers, but I liked Sierra Nevada pale ale from the first time I had some. I suspect to some extent it's like spicy food, where if you like it, your palate gradually becomes more tolerant. I have always liked the aroma and taste of late and dry hops.

 

[motosapiens]

I mean that's sort of silly. I think the point he was making is that hops can and do hide bad beer and it's more challenging to brew a good tasting better balanced beer than a very hoppy beer. And you could try brewing one to see. It's not like it takes long to brew, but i totally agree you should brew whatever you like drinking.

Just judging from my experience drinking very hoppy beers prevents me from enjoying anything except very hoppy beers. The same thing happens with spicy food. If you eat enough of it anything that's not spicy tastes like cardboard even if it's a food you used to love.

Hiding bad beer and making it taste better seems like a good goal to me, but I am lazy. I would rather make tastier beer than more challenging beer.

I personally find that I rarely drink the same beer twice in a row. I'll go from a hoppy ale to hefeweizen or stout and back. Of course I also eat ridiculously spicy food and still enjoy non-spicy foods (my wife grows exotic peppers like carolina reapers, red morugas, and wussy peppers like habaneros and ghosts as well).

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Did you go to treehouse? I've heard great things but haven't made it out there yet.
It's not too far from me but the combination of work schedule and their hours haven't made it easy for me to visit yet. I've also heard I can be a bit of a mad house there and Im really against waiting in line to buy beer lol.

Yeah, I've been there a bunch of times. I live on the south shore, so it's a hike to get out that way, but I find myself out there for one reason or another here and there. The line isn't usually bad for cans - maybe 15 minute wait usually. It can get longer for growlers, so I usually don't bother.
It's only annoying when you make the trip out there and they are sold out of cans. I think the do can sales Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, but check the website in advance if you plan to go. Each day they update what they'll be selling that day.

 

[bajaedition]

so brew something tasteless and suitable for little girls to drink at school just to prove a point? Meh, I think I will brew stuff I like, which typically includes lots of late hops.

Afraid that you will fail?

not trying to be vindictive, it is just a challenge, just how good and clean can you do a lite lager?

you will know the truth once you try, and you cannot hide from that.

 

[motosapiens]

Afraid that you will fail?

not trying to be vindictive, it is just a challenge, just how good and clean can you do a lite lager?

you will know the truth once you try, and you cannot hide from that.

lol, it is challenging to run up sand hills with cinderblocks duct-taped to your azz too. But it doesn't sound nearly as fun as drinking full-flavored beer that I enjoy.

 

[bajaedition]

lol, it is challenging to run up sand hills with cinderblocks duct-taped to your azz too. But it doesn't sound nearly as fun as drinking full-flavored beer that I enjoy.

You know, I have many friends who drink lite beers, I never have any problem having a keg of it drained, I have also noticed a lot of friends who used to tell me they did not like heavy beers, never complain about my selection of beers because they know there is always a lite beer on tap.

I could beer snob out and tell them I did not care to try to make something they would enjoy. But they are my friends so I brew beer for them as well as all my friends who want something a lot fuller and with more hops.

Another thing I have noticed, At our annual 4th of July party where I set up a 4 tap jockey box and we all take turns putting our different beers on tap, that I float at least 3 kegs of some lite beer each year. No one else comes close to pouring that much beer of one style.

Yea I could take the "well I do not like it" attitude, but then if I did, who would fill the hole? There is a reason Lite beers sell so good. It is not because I like them, but American suck them down like water.

I brew to my audience, and that means heavy beers to lite beers, and on Sunday afternoon in the middle of August I will be doing the yard in over 100 degree weather, I will be drinking a LITE BEER.

Motosapiens, brew what ever you want, just do not close your mind to those who brew other things, this is a hobby, it is fun, we brew to enjoy ourselves and our brew.