Hi all. Want to get into AG after doing an extract. What’s the smallest kettle I can use? I’d be doing BIAB (I mean I’m on that thread) and sometimes stuck indoors due to NE cold. I’m just starting out and don’t even have a burner. So everything is stove top for now. Used (I think) a 4gal for extract.
What’s the smallest kettle I can use?
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Depends on your batch size.... All that grain and water takes up a lot of space.
There are mash calculators that can tell you how much volume a given amount of grain and water will take... Here's and oldie but a goodie: Green Bay Rackers--Mash Calculators
Scroll down to "Can I Mash It?"
The Priceless BIAB calculator can also give you what you want: Priceless Brew in a Bag Calculator
Enter batch info on the left, see the calculated volumes on the far right
I brew 6 gal batches on the stovetop with ~13+lb grain bills... I typically mash in about 6.5-7g then do a pour-over sparge w/ an additional 1.5g. My goal is ~6.5 gallons after the boil so I can leave some of the break material behind in the kettle and get about 6.25g in the fermenter... then I can also leave some trub behind in the fermenter at packaging.
13lbs of grain and 7 gallons of water come to within a couple inches of the top of my 10G. Allows me comfortably stir w/out splashing over, and to easily manipilate the bag w/out making a mess... I could probably get that last 1.5 gallon in there, but it'd be too tight for my comfort.
tl;dr. Rule of thumb: bigger is better... 10G kettle for 5G batch
There are mash calculators that can tell you how much volume a given amount of grain and water will take... Here's and oldie but a goodie: Green Bay Rackers--Mash Calculators
Scroll down to "Can I Mash It?"
The Priceless BIAB calculator can also give you what you want: Priceless Brew in a Bag Calculator
Enter batch info on the left, see the calculated volumes on the far right
I brew 6 gal batches on the stovetop with ~13+lb grain bills... I typically mash in about 6.5-7g then do a pour-over sparge w/ an additional 1.5g. My goal is ~6.5 gallons after the boil so I can leave some of the break material behind in the kettle and get about 6.25g in the fermenter... then I can also leave some trub behind in the fermenter at packaging.
13lbs of grain and 7 gallons of water come to within a couple inches of the top of my 10G. Allows me comfortably stir w/out splashing over, and to easily manipilate the bag w/out making a mess... I could probably get that last 1.5 gallon in there, but it'd be too tight for my comfort.
tl;dr. Rule of thumb: bigger is better... 10G kettle for 5G batch
Last edited:
could work... depends on your kettle...
From The Priceless Calculator... Volume of mash w/ grains is 3.15 gallons, w/ 1.5 gallon pour over sparge... (pour water over grain bag after lifted from the kettle)...
But your pre-boil volume is 3.95 gal.... very tight once boiling starts...
W/ no sparge and 5lb grain bill, your grain and water volume would be 4.7 gallons... So your 4G kettle wouldn't be enough...
From The Priceless Calculator... Volume of mash w/ grains is 3.15 gallons, w/ 1.5 gallon pour over sparge... (pour water over grain bag after lifted from the kettle)...
But your pre-boil volume is 3.95 gal.... very tight once boiling starts...
W/ no sparge and 5lb grain bill, your grain and water volume would be 4.7 gallons... So your 4G kettle wouldn't be enough...
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I do 2.5G batches using a 4 gal kettle on my stovetop. Most grainbills fit fine. The one or two that don’t I remove 4 to 6 cups water when strike temp reached and put in a small covered kettle while doughing in, then pour back in. After the mash is over and bag of grains removed, I have plenty of room. You could try your kettle to start, and get a 5gal if you feel it’s needed.
5G is a great size for 2.5-2.75G batches. I brewed a couple dozen on the stovetop using the cheapy 5G kettle sold with most starter kits. I did normally withhold about half of a gallon for a dunk sparge and added that into the kettle to boil, but had no problems on most of my grain bills being full volume.
Would a super cheap Walmart kettle be fine or are those too thin? After doing an ludicrous amount of research for someone who’s only brewed one extract batch still in the fermenter... I have a plan to do small indoor batches in the winter and larger outdoor batches in the summer. I’d love to get an induction burner too. While it doesn’t seem necessary it’s a tool I could use for almost everything and it could make for a faster brew day. Especially if I have to do back to back days making a larger batch in the winter.
For 5-6 gallon batches (7-8 gallon boils) you would need a 3500W induction burner such as the Avantco IC3500 (~$180 @webstaurant.com). Especially outdoors with cooler weather and winds, and still may need some insulation, which is easy, no flame or glowing hot burner surface. That requires a 240V 20A circuit wherever you want to brew. There are a few threads on that.
For 5-6 gallon batches you need a 10 gallon kettle, for BIAB full volume mash without sparging, even larger, 14-15 gallons. To use with induction, the kettle needs to be induction ready, basically magnetic. Although some non-magnetic ones work too, most do not, and there's only one way to find out.
Regardless of kettle width (the burner can handle pretty much anything, such as 15 gallon 17" wide kettle), there's a "only" a small 6-7" diameter heating area in the middle that gets the brunt. A thicker bottom (tri-ply) helps prevents most scorching problems as it has a more even heat distribution. One of my spare kettles (Polar Ware) is thinnish with a single ply bottom. It's non-magnetic, but does work A-OK with induction. It got a blue burn mark in there, as a reminder.
I brew 5 gallon batches and do full volume BIAB mashes in the middle of NE (are you talking about New England or Nebraska?) winters. I have a 10 gallon kettle and use a propane burner. I would love to use an induction burner but I would need the Avantco that IslandLizard references above. I do not have access nor the compunction to set up a 240V 20A circuit just for brewing on our back deck. The propane burner does just fine. Also my wife and kids hated it when I brewed inside!
In addition to all the considerations above, its important to know what kind of beers you want to make? The grain bills will go up on "bigger" beers (i.e. higher ABV). I generally make beers in the 5-7% ABV range and my grain bills tend to be around 11-13#. In my experience, with about 8 gallons of water to begin with and anything more than 13# grain bill, it gets really tight in a 10G kettle. I once had it at the very top. It made it hard to stir or disturb in any way. Even removing the bag was tricky not to spill.
One thing that I do now that alleviates this situation and also the concern about maintaining steady mash temps during winter brewing sessions is to mash in a cooler. I have a 10 gallon "Gatorade" style cooler that I put my BIAB bag into, anchored by bungee cords. This way, I do not have all the grain and full initial volume of water in the kettle. I have found that even after I squeeze the bag within an inch of its life after the mash to extract as much wort as possible, there is still about 0.5-1G of water loss.
A general rule of thumb for BIAB is that you need about twice the capacity of whatever your desired final volume is. If you want to keep your initial costs down and want to stay in the 2.5G range, you could probably either get a 5 gallon cooler or convert a similar sized cooler you currently have and line it was with a BIAB bag. You could then keep the 4G kettle you currently have. You could either do a full volume mash, which would probably you to fill your kettle to the brim when initially heating up. Or you could do a batch sparge set up. I don't know the exact amounts of initial water gathering you'd need because its based on the grain bill you want to have. But spitballing you could probably heat up around 3 gallons of water to strike temp, mash in a cooler, then batch sparge another gallon. You can either heat the batch sparge volume or not. I never did when I tried batch sparging and didn't seem to affect any of my beers. You'd probably end up with around 3.5G in the kettle, which would require you to be very aware of boilovers, but is doable.
In addition to all the considerations above, its important to know what kind of beers you want to make? The grain bills will go up on "bigger" beers (i.e. higher ABV). I generally make beers in the 5-7% ABV range and my grain bills tend to be around 11-13#. In my experience, with about 8 gallons of water to begin with and anything more than 13# grain bill, it gets really tight in a 10G kettle. I once had it at the very top. It made it hard to stir or disturb in any way. Even removing the bag was tricky not to spill.
One thing that I do now that alleviates this situation and also the concern about maintaining steady mash temps during winter brewing sessions is to mash in a cooler. I have a 10 gallon "Gatorade" style cooler that I put my BIAB bag into, anchored by bungee cords. This way, I do not have all the grain and full initial volume of water in the kettle. I have found that even after I squeeze the bag within an inch of its life after the mash to extract as much wort as possible, there is still about 0.5-1G of water loss.
A general rule of thumb for BIAB is that you need about twice the capacity of whatever your desired final volume is. If you want to keep your initial costs down and want to stay in the 2.5G range, you could probably either get a 5 gallon cooler or convert a similar sized cooler you currently have and line it was with a BIAB bag. You could then keep the 4G kettle you currently have. You could either do a full volume mash, which would probably you to fill your kettle to the brim when initially heating up. Or you could do a batch sparge set up. I don't know the exact amounts of initial water gathering you'd need because its based on the grain bill you want to have. But spitballing you could probably heat up around 3 gallons of water to strike temp, mash in a cooler, then batch sparge another gallon. You can either heat the batch sparge volume or not. I never did when I tried batch sparging and didn't seem to affect any of my beers. You'd probably end up with around 3.5G in the kettle, which would require you to be very aware of boilovers, but is doable.
New England. But I’m sure you’re familiar with cold weather. The cold is two fold for me I’m not planning on mash tun I’m planning on mashing in kettle. If I can that is. I know how quickly any and everything can lose heat in a sub zero day. Although I’m sure a giant pile of snow would make an awesome wort chiller. I’m also not much of a cold weather lover. I don’t mind being out in the balmy November weather with a jacket for a few hours... maybe grill some burgers with my buddy... but January time frame I’d rather not. Even if it means doing extract.
I started BIAB with a 10G aluminum tamale steamer from the local mexican market... Super cheap on-sale... maybe $15-20ish for 10G? Can't recall exactly... They start to go on sale around Christmas-time.
They are also super thin but work just fine (just establish the oxide layer on aluminum by boiling water in it before brewing)... Your stovetop probably isn't putting out the same BTUs as a propane burner... I never had any problem w/ scorching...
You probably will need to insulate a thinner kettle to hold mash temps for 45-60 min without dropping too much... Sleeping bags work... Some folks make a giant coozie out of reflectix. With smaller kettle, you can also set your stove to its lowest Temp and just mash in your stove. Or you can direct fire the kettle but will want to stir to avoid damaging the bag. I've managed to never burn my bag (ouch!
) but have heard horror stories... Low heat, keep stirring!An electric heat stick to supplement the stove (nat. gas I presume?) really speeds up the time to reach mash-in temps and time to boil... I use a $10 amazon jobbie... Between nat. gas stove top and heat stick, I can get to mash temps before I finish getting my grains weighed out and milled...
I eventually scored a nice 4m thick aluminum restaurant quality kettle for $40 (from Staples, the office supply store of all places
).
I've been tempted by these, but have also seen the warnings about not using oxygenated cleaners. What's your approach to the caked on evaporation zone?
I was thinking of a heat stick. I have electric coils. But don’t see much difference when it comes to brewing. So you’re saying the 10g will boil on your stove with a heat stick? And fast? Because I was leaning toward a 5g and doing half batches but if I can do 10g and full batches that sounds better.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say "fast"... But it will boil... And it gets there much quicker w/ the heat stick. If you're on an electric stove, you might need your stick to be on a different breaker...
I'd say it takes maybe 30 minutes to go from tap water to mash temps...
I usually heat up my 1.5g dunk sparge to mashout temps during the mash, so my extra sparge doesn't cool my wort down... then maybe another 30 minutes to reach boiling.
It was more like an hour to reach a low boil w/out the heat stick.
Anything can be a kettle if you"re brave enough
Actually putting the kettle in the snow is a lousy way to chill the wort. I discovered that my very first brew! I put the kettle right into a snowball and it took close to 4 hours to cool down. Instead of chilling it, the snow became an insulator.
I’ve been out there in 10 degree weather. It’s not great but it it’s warm around the kettle and it actually helps to be all geared up (I usually wear rain boots and rubber gloves when moving the vessels and it can be hot in the middle of summer). It’s the late fall or early spring rain that blows.
I used to insulate my kettle when I did true BIAB. I wrapped it in moving blankets and I’d I hadn’t started using a cooler to BIAB in, I’d probably create some durable insulation method. But even still I’ve read that maintaining the “right” mash temp is only really important during the first 20 minutes or so. I would have brew days where the temp would drop close to 40 degrees by the end with no real difference in outcome. I just got tired of the inconsistency in my process.
NSMikeD
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i used a 5 gal stainless steel pot (which was actually 4.78 when calculated) for brewing 2.5 gal batches. It fit nicely on the bigger burner on the gas stove top and I kept mash temp by putting it in the oven.
I drilled it to add a spigot and a thermometer.
I have an Anvil Foundry on order and will be looking for someone to make use of my brewpot if they can pick up or pay for shipping. I know if the Anvil works as anticipated my brew pot will gather dust.
Grain takes up a lot of space so I would do a sparge, holding back about 2 qts and rinsing the bag in a colander over a second pot with 170° water and then adding that to the boil. Much better than trying to deal with a mash up to the rim.
I drilled it to add a spigot and a thermometer.
I have an Anvil Foundry on order and will be looking for someone to make use of my brewpot if they can pick up or pay for shipping. I know if the Anvil works as anticipated my brew pot will gather dust.
Grain takes up a lot of space so I would do a sparge, holding back about 2 qts and rinsing the bag in a colander over a second pot with 170° water and then adding that to the boil. Much better than trying to deal with a mash up to the rim.
giftedeye2
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Does anyone BIAB 5 gallon batches in 7.5 gallon kettle?
You should use a biab calc to determine how much all of your pre-boil strike water plus grain will equal in volume. I BIAB ~6 gallon batches in an 11 gallon pot, and with anything higher than about 1.070 I need all that extra room for stirring the mash, etc. Plus, I don't ever worry about boilovers.
You might get by with a thicker mash and diluting with more water after you raise the bag, but your efficiency will definitely suffer. Over time, that wasted malt will more than offset the cost savings of that small pot. IMHO, get yourself a larger pot.
If that 7.5 is leftover from your extract brewing phase, either sell it or gift it to a new brewer or save it so someday you can use it to teach someone how to brew. Extract brewing is fun and easy, I brew them from time to time for special projects or just when I want a light, easy brew day.
I have. They work fine if you are willing to do a sparge to get the volume but not really big enough for a full volume mash if you like big beers. A sparge is so simple with BIAB I'm surprised that more brewers don't do one. Hang the bag over the pot and pour water over it is about as simple as it gets and improves efficiency. Dunk the pot into a bucket with water and work it up and down is nearly as easy and probably gets a little more of the sugars out.
giftedeye2
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Do you use water the same as your mash temp?
Not anymore. Cool water right from my tap (private well, no chlorine) does the same job and I don't have to heat water plus the grains are cooler when done so I can squeeze the bag with my hands if I choose. Provided that your mash has completed conversion there is only a slight advantage to heated water, you get your wort to a boil slightly quicker.
giftedeye2
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That is actually great to know. That makes everything even easier, thanks for the insight!
as RM-MN has pointed out, you don't need a large kettle if you batch sparge. I started all grain brewing with a 6-7 gallon kettle (I don't remember anymore, whatever came with my starter extract kit a million years ago). I boiled close to 6 gallons and ended up with a 5 ish gallon batch. I must admit i had to really watch the boil at first because the kettle was quite full. It's not the most practical maybe, but the point is that you can get started with all grain by spending 0 extra $ if you already have the basic 5 gallon extract equipment.
my favorite "getting started" videos...
water calc
basic batch sparge brew day
my favorite "getting started" videos...
water calc
basic batch sparge brew day
Pretty good videos overall, but the first has several items that need more discussion.
- Presenter makes a statement that implies that BIAB is not all grain brewing, when in fact it is. Presenter would have been more correct to contrast using BIAB vs. three vessel for all grain brewing.
- Presenter defines "batch volume" as the volume that gets bottled/kegged (i.e. "packaged" volume.) More common usage is to define "batch volume" as the volume into the fermenter. The latter is used by BeerSmith, Brewer's Friend, Priceless BIAB calculator, and many other brewing apps. There is no standards body that enforces the use of the same terminology for various volumes and efficiencies in the homebrew world, so you need to be aware of what definitions any author is using.
- Presenter states that 1.25 qt/lb (3 L/kg) is the "correct" water to grain ratio to use for mashing. This is a very commonly used ratio, but there is no "correct" or "best" ratio for all cases. Lots of brewers do full volume (no sparge) mashes - especially with BIAB. And in fact, thinner mashes (higher water to grain ratio) convert faster, so may lead to more complete conversion during the allotted mash time.
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+1 on the 10 gal. pot. Use one for BIAB 5 gal. batches, all good so far. DEFinitely do not want a smaller pot than this one.
