Well that did not work well.. Ideas why?

[E_Marquez]

Disappointing brew .. Notes below....

30 June 2013
New brew today Superior Strong Ale
Steeping grans on stove this time to better control temps
Grains in nylon grain bag, tied with chefs twine
Bag, pot, thermometer, spoon all washed and sterilized
3.5 gal tap water in pot, heated to 160 deg, heat turned to lowest temp and let water cool to 155 (almost 10 min)
Dropped grain bag in at 155 started timer.
60 min steep.
Boil for 1 min
Added malt extract
Turned up heat, to boil, added hops
Dropped in chiller
Boiled for 45 min, added Irish moss
Boiled for 13 min
Added hops
Boiled for 2 min
Killed heat started chiller
Stirred, down to 80 deg in 12 min
Chilled to 70 deg in 14 min.
Transferred to fermenter
Topped off with cold filtered water.
Used sterilized aerator and infused O2 for 1 min
Took hyd reading, 1.100 temp corrected.
Topped fermenter added air lock
Started fermentation at 20:30 30 June 2013 72 deg ambient temps in room..stable
9 July 2013
Moved fermenter to Ferm chamber, set temp at 2 deg C
13 July 14, 2013
Fermentation has long stopped Checked hyd, 11, 12,13th), but kicked up some yeast in taking a sample.. will let set at least one day.
14 July 2013
Opened bucket, No sign of infection smell, taste or sight.
Racked to secondary,
Boiled ½ cup water, dissolved ½ teaspoon gelatin cooled and dropped in to carboy.
Found small clump of gelatin in pan while cleaning, not sure how much that equated to that did not make it into the beer.
21 July 2013
Bottled
Added 5 oz priming sugar to 2 cups boiling water., then in to bottling bucket.…
Bottled 41 bottles , stored in brown bottles, 72deg room temp, no light.
4 Aug 2013 (14 days)
Chilled in fridge 6 hours, Popped one bottle, mild to moderate carb, taste is …sweet, somewhat brown ale like and … banana? (esters)
11 Aug 2013 (21 days)
Chilled in fridge 6 hours, Popped one bottle mild to moderate carb, taste is …sweet, somewhat brown ale like and … banana? (esters)

Booooooo, not a good beer… no idea what went wrong.. will leave in the back of the storage room and see what it’s like in a month or so.

Any ideas from my notes above that might have caused an issue.

 

[evrose]

Recipe?

 

[BxBrewer]

I'd like to know as well. What kind of extract was used ? Also the OG and FG.

 

[PLOVE]

Did you actually add hops for the duration of the 60 min boil? Not clear from the notes.

Banana is usually an indication that you fermented too hot. Fine (even preferred) in a hef, but not in a strong ale. What yeast? Nott? 007? My guess is that you fermented too hot. Most ale yeast do better in the mid 60's IMHO.

 

[NewWestBrewer]

Your OG was 1.1....a beer that big can take months to carb up. Definitely let it sit longer. Also as has been previously said banana tends to mean too high a ferment temp. Generally try for mid 60's.

 

[RM-MN]

You brewed a big beer and fermented it at room temperature for only 2 weeks before crash cooling it. The yeast weren't done yet. With that high of an OG, your yeast were struggling to eat the last sugars with all the alcohol in there and when you crash cooled it they quit. They probably needed a couple months to get all the sugars eaten and the intermediate byproducts cleaned up.

Your banana esters come from being fermented too warm. It's too late to do much to this one but when you brew the next high gravity beer, chill it to the low 60's and keep it there for a week or a bit more, then let it come to room temperate where it can stay for the next 2 months. At that time, use your hydrometer to determine if it is done yet or if it needs more time.

 

[DArsenault]

Disappointing brew .. Notes below....
Started fermentation at 20:30 30 June 2013 72 deg ambient temps in room..stable

From this it's sounds like you weren't using any type of temperature control and just had your fermenter in a room, where the temp was 72 degrees? Any idea what the temp of the batch was? If the room temp was 72, your batch was probably quite a bit higher than that. Outside temp does not equal inside temp, especially for the first few days of fermentation. Also it's not likely that the room temp stayed at exactly 72 degrees 24 hours a day for the length of fermentation. It's more likely that the temp would rise and drop a few degrees in either direction throughout the day, even with an A/C unit the change of outside temps will cause some fluctuation of indoor temps. My guess would be that the outdoor temp raised up a bit and that the batch temp was fermenting a bit higher than what you thought, maybe in the upper 70's. This is just a guess, based on what you wrote if you did use some type of temp control maybe the issue is somewhere else.

Also it looks like you "cold crashed" the beer after about 10 days. That may have been a little premature, it's possible your beer was still fermenting. When you wrote that fermentation had long stopped, that is most likely due to being exposed to near freezing temps.

 

[BigFloyd]

72*F ambient is the cause of most, maybe all, of the off-flavors. Some yeast strains when fermented too warm will produce esters that taste like banana. It looks like it was finished up (3 stable hydro readings) before cold crashing.

What yeast did you use?

Now that you have an STC1000-controlled fermenter freezer, banana beer should hopefully be a thing of the past. Also, I like to raise the temp a few degrees at the end of the ferment to give the yeast a chance to clean up before crashing the batch.

The best you can do for this particular batch is box it up, say a little prayer, and set it in a dark corner for a couple of months before testing another bottle.

 

[progmac]

it fermented too hot. a beer with that kind of an OG fermented at 72 ambient...it very well could have actually fermented at 80 degrees or more.

 

[LovesIPA]

Did you make a yeast starter? In addition to fermentation temps, which is definitely part of your problem, if you underpitched it will cause problems, including off-flavors. Also you didn't let it ferment long enough.

What was your FG?

 

[E_Marquez]

On the road, will respond to all that posted after I get to my hotel...

Thank you....

And yes,,, I realise now I fermented at too high a temp.. for this beer, this yeast, ect........Thats why I built a Ferm chamber after this one went in the bucket (too late for it... but not for the two brews in the chamber now holding at 63 deg liquid temp)

 

[kh54s10]

I also noted the hot initial fermentation, then a move to a fermentation chamber. If anything the process should be reversed. Cool first then warm up to finish.
Also you noted that you did a 60 minutes steep then boil for one minute? You should never boil grain. This might not be the source of the off flavors but certainly would not help.

At an OG of 1.100 I would not expect this beer to condition fully in less than a few months. I would leave them alone until late October and try one again.

 

[BigFloyd]

I also noted the hot initial fermentation, then a move to a fermentation chamber. If anything the process should be reversed. Cool first then warm up to finish.

Worry not Erik. Caulk this one up to experience and enjoy the better brews you now have coming though your much-improved pipeline.

 

[E_Marquez]

I also noted the hot initial fermentation, then a move to a fermentation chamber. If anything the process should be reversed. Cool first then warm up to finish.
Also you noted that you did a 60 minutes steep then boil for one minute? You should never boil grain. This might not be the source of the off flavors but certainly would not help.

At an OG of 1.100 I would not expect this beer to condition fully in less than a few months. I would leave them alone until late October and try one again.

If that is what you read then my notes are not clear....

I steeped for 60 min, then did a 60 min boil..

I did not have a ferm chamber when I brewed this beer...I built it several weeks later, and used it to cold crash the beer for a few days, a clarity improving move only.,,,

I fermented at room temp, simply because at the time it's all I had and it worked with two previous brews.

Lesson learned, so not a waste in my opinion.. But still a disappointment.

Yes it has been moved to long term storage, and I move on to the two brews I have in the ferm chamber.

Thanks

 

[E_Marquez]

Did you make a yeast starter? In addition to fermentation temps, which is definitely part of your problem, if you underpitched it will cause problems, including off-flavors. Also you didn't let it ferment long enough.

What was your FG?

I have not done yeast starters, just pitched dry yeast...why? Because it was what the recipe makers have suggested, and it worked previously.

Fermentation had stopped as far as I could tell, (3 days of stable Hyd readings )..... But longer is always safer I guess.

Thanks

 

[E_Marquez]

Worry not Erik. Caulk this one up to experience and enjoy the better brews you now have coming though your much-improved pipeline.

Floyd;
Thanks, yes correct not worried, just interested in understanding what when wrong in effort to educate and keep it from hap pining again.

Week 5 in bottles today... found a bottle in the beer fridge I forgot to take out and put back in long term storage with the rest....
So yes had to try it..

Cap pop...lots of CO2...

Poured 2 inches or so in a chilled glass... great head but I got a slight "smell" off of beer in the glass..

Perfectly clear, very dark.....strong brown dark.
I cant really describe the smell,, I don't have the education or experience,, but it just seems off.

First sip was not bad,, but a taste builds at the finish...... it''s... arrgg i don't no,,just off.

I drank a few more sips,, rinsed mouth with water and tried again... There is something off with this beer. It us not beer spitting awful... but i don't find it appealing to drink either.

Second bottle is chilling now.. headed to my local brew supply shop to have a few folks taste it..see if they can better ascribe a common trait to the smell and flavor ..or just tell me that it is what it is supposed to be...

Floyd... want to taste a bad beer for me

 

[BigFloyd]

Floyd... want to taste a bad beer for me

Ummmmmm. No.

If I want to taste a bad beer, all I have to do (now that Tyler is "wet") is drive a few blocks to the corner gas station. They have stacks and stacks of bad beers there in cardboard boxes.

I would, however, be happy to taste-test one of your good beers sometime. You are, of course, always welcome to swing by any time you're in this area and taste whatever beers I have on hand.

 

[kh54s10]

I would still not give up on this beer. It might not get really good but, it is a big beer and will be better than it is now, with a couple more months of conditioning.

 

[E_Marquez]

I would still not give up on this beer. It might not get really good but, it is a big beer and will be better than it is now, with a couple more months of conditioning.

Well I'll not be throwing it away for sure.. but I dont have high hopes either.

The local brew supply guy helped me pin down what was off about this beer...
1: It is a Malty beer.. so that is the smell and taste that hits you...and it's more then i normally drink.

2: It has a alcohol taste finish .. I believe it was caused by two likely issues I created.

a) Too short a time in the fermentation stage (regardless of what my three consecutive hyd readings showed)
b) Too hot fermentation temps.

Both easily corrected.. I now have a fermentation chamber and I will now leave the beer in the primary at least a 2 weeks AFTER I get stable Hyd readings allowing the yeast to finish cleaning up.

I have two 5gal batches sitting at 68 deg right now... they both show ready to bottle or keg (5 weeks in the bucket) Im going to leave them both another few weeks for good measure.