weird question about grain sanitation

[HOPSareKEY]

Hello,
This may sound like a weird question, but does the boil really sanitize everything that may have been on your grain?

For example, I dropped about a pound of uncrushed grain on the dirty floor of my brew shop, swept it up, and put it back with the other grain to be crushed thinking that the boil would kill anything

I then was thinking that when people do sour mashes, the boil doesn't kill that bacteria.

Would the boil kill anything that the grain picked up on floor. Thanks

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I wouldn't worry. As long as you didn't scoop up any dog poop or anything.

 

[snowveil]

The sourness that you're getting from a sour mash isn't the bacteria itself, but a fermentation byproduct of the bacteria. So, yes, the boil *does* kill the bacteria on the grain.

You've got nothing to worry about.

 

[Qhrumphf]

When people do sour mashes, they also don't boil it.

In fact, many folks do sour mashes for sour beers so that they CAN boil them afterwards, kill the bugs, and not worry about contaminating cold-side equipment.

The full answer to your question is that no, the boil does not kill everything. It sanitizes the wort, but it does not sterilize. It will kill most all living microorganisms, but less so with spores. When brewing under normal circumstances, enough yeast is pitched that any existing microbes would be easily outnumbered, overpowered, and outcompeted by the million-to-one ratio of yeast you're adding, so they have no impact. If you were to just leave wort sitting in a sterile container and never pitched yeast, you may eventually get a spontaneous fermentation. How long it takes is a good question, since some no-chill brewers have apparently left wort in jerry cans, or some other brewers leaving starter wort in cans after boiling, for months without an issue (although most sources recommend food safety protocol and pressure canning starter wort, so that it IS sterilized, but that's a different subject)

So point is, yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. As long as the floor wasn't covered in toxic chemicals, or like noted above, dog poop, you're probably just fine.

 

[tg123]

I then was thinking that when people do sour mashes, the boil doesn't kill that bacteria.

Are you sure? I thought the boil kills the bacteria, but not the souring it has already done.

EDIT: Never mind. Replied too late. See posts above.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

I think you would be horrified by the inside of a grain silo...

 

[HOPSareKEY]

Yeah I figured grain touches some nasty stuff along the way to the brew store, just making sure there wasn't some obvious thing I wasn't aware of. Thank you.

 

[grittanomyces]

Whether it sterilizes it or not, that is just nasty brewing with grains you swept off the floor. I hope it was your brew and not a customers.

Grain isn't expensive, so unless you're a desperate alcoholic, I cannot see any reason to brew with grain that hit the floor, especially a dirty floor.

 

[HOPSareKEY]

Yes it is my beer and I'm regretting doing it now, but I was in a rush at the time because there was a line behind me waiting on the grain crusher. I quickly just swept it up and went right in the crusher.

 

[HOPSareKEY]

There was no visible debris on the floor, but it is a public floor nonetheless.

 

[ong]

Just tell people it's floor malted grain.

 

[ChelisHubby]

You will not be able to taste the difference!

 

[LordUlrich]

Boiling will kill the microbes, well enough for what you need. While it is true some microbes(cysts and spores mostly) can survive some time at boiling it is a matter of time until they get killed. Most studies about boiling and killing microbes to not look at a full hour boil ( 10 minutes is a common time for boil water alerts iirc).
Some bugs might survive, but not enough to worry about...and any which do survive the yeast will likely kill.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Whether it sterilizes it or not, that is just nasty brewing with grains you swept off the floor. I hope it was your brew and not a customers.

Grain isn't expensive, so unless you're a desperate alcoholic, I cannot see any reason to brew with grain that hit the floor, especially a dirty floor.

Are you unfamiliar with the term "sterilization?"

You wouldn't believe the horrendous things that bugs do on grain husks.

Heck, think of all of the millions of bugs that you're boiling in your wort.

 

[Shockerengr]

A boil will kill most all biological contaminants....but it won't clean any chemical contaminates out...so be careful what you get into your grain

 

[MindenMan]

Sanitize is to stop new bugs from growing on a surface. Sterilizing has to be done under pressure and heat.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Sanitize is to stop new bugs from growing on a surface. Sterilizing has to be done under pressure and heat.

Dang. Surgeons must have hands made out of steel.

Read this.

 

[thegreatmaibockaddict]

Generally it is not something to worry about, but Fusarium is a barley mold that can form on grain if conditions during growing season are too wet. Fusarium can survive the malting and kilning process as well as the boil, and can make it into finished beer, causing excessive bottle gushing.

just sayin'

 

[Stealthcruiser]

"Dog Dookey Dunkel".

Kind of rolls off the tongue.........

 

[QuercusMax]

I recently milled a batch of grain for a Kolsch straight onto my driveway because I forgot my catch-bucket. Scraped it all up and brewed with it. It's still lagering, but everything tasted fine in the gravity samples...

 

[grittanomyces]

Are you unfamiliar with the term "sterilization?"

You wouldn't believe the horrendous things that bugs do on grain husks.

Heck, think of all of the millions of bugs that you're boiling in your wort.

Ignorance is bliss, I have no control over what they do, but if rats get into my macaroni, I'm not going to boil it up and serve it to my family, sanitary be damned. That's all I'm saying.

 

[troy2000]

Whether it sterilizes it or not, that is just nasty brewing with grains you swept off the floor. I hope it was your brew and not a customers.

Grain isn't expensive, so unless you're a desperate alcoholic, I cannot see any reason to brew with grain that hit the floor, especially a dirty floor.

I hope you're kidding. Do you have any idea how much bird poop, rat pee, windblown dust, assorted fungi, bugs and God knows what else is in the grain you mash with?

 

[beernbourbon]

Whether it sterilizes it or not, that is just nasty brewing with grains you swept off the floor. I hope it was your brew and not a customers.

Grain isn't expensive, so unless you're a desperate alcoholic, I cannot see any reason to brew with grain that hit the floor, especially a dirty floor.

meh..... granted it's a bit more than 5, but I think this would be a good case for the 5 second rule to apply.... More "stuff" been on that grain from farm to the store than you would EVER want to know, so I think a little grain dust and floor stuff ain't gonna kill anyone.

*Edit*.... D'OH, sorry Troy, ya beat me to it....

 

[troy2000]

meh..... granted it's a bit more than 5, but I think this would be a good case for the 5 second rule to apply.... More "stuff" been on that grain from farm to the store than you would EVER want to know, so I think a little grain dust and floor stuff ain't gonna kill anyone.

*Edit*.... D'OH, sorry Troy, ya beat me to it....

It was worth repeating. And you said it better than I did anyway....

 

[Decoy]

Hundreds of years ago people didn't believe in bacteria because they couldn't see them. Now we assume our breweries and kitchens are sterile because ... why now? By boiling something for an hour and then refrigerating it you can be pretty comfortable you are safe. But there's not much difference between the floor and the counter top as a potential source of bacterial contamination. Beer wouldn't work without boiling ...

 

[HOPSareKEY]

Thank you all. I figured it was OK and was only on group for about 20 seconds top. Just me worried ha. Cheers!