Water

[lolznrofls]

Is there anywhere that I can go get a additive pack to add to distilled water to get my water profile the same as say Dublin Ireland for my next stout?

 

[Braufessor]

Not that I know of. And, you don't want to make your water "the same as dublin"..... at least not as reported on historically. Guinness does not use "dublin water."

What are you shooting for as a goal?

Do you know the mineral content of your own tap water?

 

[lolznrofls]

Im shooting for an authentic flavor of an irish stout..I was reading more recently on water..adding things to help the magic sugar munching microbes along and enhancing flavor..thaught wave is pretty simple..we spend alot of time to het the right grain bill, and the right hops at the right time of the boil, and the perfect yeast...what about the water..
When I started brewing I did ciders and meads which I added nutrient and ph stabilizers to..now im going on my fifth beer kit and looking to give it that something special.

 

[mabrungard]

Not that I know of. And, you don't want to make your water "the same as dublin"..... at least not as reported on historically. Guinness does not use "dublin water."

Well actually, Guinness does use Dublin water for their brewing at St James Gate brewery. However, the water that they get out of their tap is nothing like the hard and alkaline water that is often quoted as 'Dublin' water. Guinness is in a zone of Dublin that receives its water from the Wicklow Mountains and that water has little mineralization, very RO-like quality.

So if brewing an Irish stout is your goal, starting with distilled or RO water is appropriate. By the way, Guinness is known to now use RO treatment for all their brewery water to help assure a consistent quality from the Dublin water system. Portions of the Dublin water system DO have hard and alkaline water.

 

[wardens355]

Well actually, Guinness does use Dublin water for their brewing at St James Gate brewery. However, the water that they get out of their tap is nothing like the hard and alkaline water that is often quoted as 'Dublin' water. Guinness is in a zone of Dublin that receives its water from the Wicklow Mountains and that water has little mineralization, very RO-like quality.

So if brewing an Irish stout is your goal, starting with distilled or RO water is appropriate. By the way, Guinness is known to now use RO treatment for all their brewery water to help assure a consistent quality from the Dublin water system. Portions of the Dublin water system DO have hard and alkaline water.

Ballpark, what percentage of breweries in the classic regions shown in many texts do you think get water from other sources, or treat onsite? I would imagine a large percentage would now perform water treatment to get their ideal brewing water, rather than just going with whatever quality is coming out of the tap at the time, unless the local drinking water supply has very good quality.

 

[sky4meplease]

Taken from a book my wife bought me while on tour of the Guinness brewery in Dublin.

"The water in Guinness doesn't come from the River Liffey as many people think, but from springs in the Wicklow Mountains about 10 miles south of Dublin. The water used in brewing Guinness is very important. A pure source like the Wicklow Mountain springs provides water with a low mineral content, which allows the flavors of Guinness to come into there own".

This surprised me seeing how dark a beer Guinness stout is. I wonder how they keep the ph from bottoming out while mashing.

 

[JonM]

Whenever I use a lot of dark grains, I thin the mash to keep the pH in check. Usually 1.5 qts/lb does the trick.

 

[Braufessor]

Martin (Mabrungard) has good overviews of various regional/historical water profiles from around the world. The Dublin/Ireland profile is featured in the November/December 2013 issue of Zymurgy. I believe he also has an NHC conference presentation about these historical profiles on the AHA site if you are an AHA member you can access.

Also, check out the brewing network podcast - BrewStrong (Water Regions 3-17-14). Martin and others have good discussion on regional water profiles - Ireland is in that episode.

 

[unionrdr]

I started using Ohio spring water & it does seem to give a bit better flavors from both hops & malts. The one sold at Giant Eagle seems to bring out the hops a bit more. Whereas the spring water from White House Artesian Springs seems to be a bit better on the malty side. Try those & see the changes in flavor vs tap water...

 

[lolznrofls]

I started using Ohio spring water & it does seem to give a bit better flavors from both hops & malts. The one sold at Giant Eagle seems to bring out the hops a bit more. Whereas the spring water from White House Artesian Springs seems to be a bit better on the malty side. Try those & see the changes in flavor vs tap water...

Good stuff..im in northeast ohio so I should be able to find really good spring water..my dads well water has way to much iron algae in it for me to want to brew with

 

[unionrdr]

You should be able to find both easy enough. White House Artesian Springs has 6 wells drilled around the state & Giant Eagle has stores all over NE Ohio.

 

[lolznrofls]

You should be able to find both easy enough. White House Artesian Springs has 6 wells drilled around the state & Giant Eagle has stores all over NE Ohio.

Yes sir..I have a big bird right up the street...

 

[unionrdr]

Ha. Big bird...never thought of it that way. Their brand of spring water doesn't cost much & is great for hoppy beers.

 

[lolznrofls]

Im gonna try it next.I have a pliney the elder clone on the way from northern brewer..next saturday is brew day

 

[cjgenever]

You can add a touch of chloride for malt forward beers or a bit of gypsum for hop forward beers. The problem is you really can't know what you need without a water report.

If your water is good to drink then it's good to brew with. It may need adjustments if you are targeting a specific style.

 

[lolznrofls]

You can add a touch of chloride for malt forward beers or a bit of gypsum for hop forward beers. The problem is you really can't know what you need without a water report.

If your water is good to drink then it's good to brew with. It may need adjustments if you are targeting a specific style.

My local water has cloramine so Im kinda hosed when it comes to using it to brew..so I start out with distilled water traditionally...just a blank liquid canvas I can tweek to what ever style I want...im going to do spring water and maybe a touch of gypsum for the pliney kit

 

[cjgenever]

Camden tablets take care of chloramine.

 

[cjgenever]

Come to think of it, I think more beer used to have salt kits. They were to be added to distilled. You can check there and maybe northern brewer?

 

[jbsg02]

My local water has cloramine so Im kinda hosed when it comes to using it to brew..so I start out with distilled water traditionally...just a blank liquid canvas I can tweek to what ever style I want...im going to do spring water and maybe a touch of gypsum for the pliney kit

Get a carbon filter and it will filter out chlorine and chloramine as well as make the water taste better, or use a campden tablet like someone else has said. You don't really need super alkaline water to make a stout.

 

[lolznrofls]

Get a carbon filter and it will filter out chlorine and chloramine as well as make the water taste better, or use a campden tablet like someone else has said. You don't really need super alkaline water to make a stout.

Carbon filters DO NOT remove cloramine from water..whomever gave that advice was slightly mistaken..the only way to remove cloramine is R/O.
I cant see me spending that kinda cash to filter city water once a month or so..

 

[lolznrofls]

Get a carbon filter and it will filter out chlorine and chloramine as well as make the water taste better, or use a campden tablet like someone else has said. You don't really need super alkaline water to make a stout.

Carbon filters DO NOT remove cloramine from water..whomever gave that advice was slightly mistaken..the only way to remove cloramine is R/O.
I cant see me spending that kinda cash to filter city water once a month or so..

 

[mabrungard]

Carbon filters DO NOT remove cloramine from water..whomever gave that advice was slightly mistaken..the only way to remove cloramine is R/O.

Well, there is a bit of disinformation here. An important point is that activated carbon filters DO remove both chloramine and chlorine from water. In fact, for that RO process, at least one of the pre-filters prior to the membrane is a carbon filter...which removes both chlorine and chloramine that will destroy the membrane if left in the water.

The difference in removing chlorine and chloramine with carbon is that the catalytic reaction is MUCH slower with chloramine. What that means to the typical user is that you have to run water through the filter at a super slow rate. For the typical 10-inch undersink carbon filter, the flow rate needs to be about 0.1 gallons per minute to achieve adequate chloramine removal. Guess how fast the feed water rate is for the typical home RO unit...yes, down around 0.1 gal/min. That is how a RO unit can produce chlorine and chloramine-free water.

While we are on the subject, brewers also need to understand that if your water supply uses chlorine, you still have to run the water through the filter at a somewhat slow rate to get full chlorine removal. A flow rate of about 1 gal/min is adequate to achieve high removal. For typical municipal water pressure, inserting a flow-restricting orifice in the feed line to the filter with a 1/16-inch hole will produce about 1 gal/min. Since my filter uses garden hose sized tubing at the inlet and outlet, I got a 1/2" copper end cap from a home improvement store and drilled a 1/16" hole in it and then shoved it into the inlet hose. Works great.

 

[GrogNerd]

If your water is good to drink then it's good to brew with

not true at all with my water

I drink it straight from the tap and it tastes just fine. use it to mix up some Crystal Light or make coffee and they turn out tasting like feet and ass

so does my beer. I tested it

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I cant see me spending that kinda cash to filter city water once a month or so..

Unfortunately in order to consistently brew the best tasting example of any style of beer, you'll have to rely on RO water as a foundation to build the best water profile for each style.

 

[mabrungard]

If your water is good to drink then it's good to brew with. It may need adjustments if you are targeting a specific style.

While the former statement can get you into trouble, the later statement provides the necessary qualification.

Even with great tasting water...or RO water...or distilled water, the brewing water will likely require some treatment to help produce great beer. If you don't, even really pure waters like RO or distilled can produce poor tasting beer.

Brewing water treatment is not that difficult and without it, there will only be a few beer styles that you might be able to brew great. But there will be many beers that you won't be able to nail since the water WILL hold you back...even though it tastes great. Great tasting water is no guarantee of great beer.

 

[cjgenever]

While the former statement can get you into trouble, the later statement provides the necessary qualification.

Even with great tasting water...or RO water...or distilled water, the brewing water will likely require some treatment to help produce great beer. If you don't, even really pure waters like RO or distilled can produce poor tasting beer.

Brewing water treatment is not that difficult and without it, there will only be a few beer styles that you might be able to brew great. But there will be many beers that you won't be able to nail since the water WILL hold you back...even though it tastes great. Great tasting water is no guarantee of great beer.

Ford off, I agree with everything you said.

Water treatment is part of brewing if you want the best beer...so if it tastes good then it is good for brewing. I didn't say it would make excellent beer without treatment. I guess I should be more specific. I just don't think people should be building from expensive distilled when their tap water will do. There is too much talk of distilled and ro tossed around.

 

[Yooper]

Ford off, I agree with everything you said.

Water treatment is part of brewing if you want the best beer...so if it tastes good then it is good for brewing. I didn't say it would make excellent beer without treatment. I guess I should be more specific. I just don't think people should be building from expensive distilled when their tap water will do. There is too much talk of distilled and ro tossed around.

But as an example- I have one of the best tasting tap waters in the country. There is no off smell or flavor, and no chlorine smell. It is really great- and there are bottling companies around that bottle my tap water. It is great tasting water.

However..............it has 228 ppm of bicarbonate.

You can't taste that, but in any beer (besides a stout), the mash pH is too high. If you make a kolsch with my water, it will taste pretty harsh. It's not terrible, but it's a long way from good!

 

[cjgenever]

But as an example- I have one of the best tasting tap waters in the country. There is no off smell or flavor, and no chlorine smell. It is really great- and there are bottling companies around that bottle my tap water. It is great tasting water.

However..............it has 228 ppm of bicarbonate.

You can't taste that, but in any beer (besides a stout), the mash pH is too high. If you make a kolsch with my water, it will taste pretty harsh. It's not terrible, but it's a long way from good!

I see what your saying. The thing that gets me is when people assume they need to give up on their water. Do you build from RO or simply cut your water with RO to lower your r.a. ?

 

[Yooper]

I see what your saying. The thing that gets me is when people assume they need to give up on their water. Do you build from RO or simply cut your water with RO to lower your r.a. ?

For a stout, I use the water as is. For many styles, I use a mix of RO and my tap water (but sparge with 100% RO if I can). For the lighter styles- pilsner, kolsch, blonde, I use 100% RO water.

The important thing is to hit the proper mash pH. Any other additions are for flavor- like salt or pepper in food- but hitting the proper mash pH is the crucial part. Once you have the proper mash and sparge pH, some flavor tweaking can be done but it's not really necessary.